"We want Vanilla" "No wait we want a FIXED Vanilla!"

[innerpartycolt]

I do hope they:
-remove hit and weapon skills.
-optimize flying paths.
-remove spell ranks. I don't mind learning new stuff from trainers, I actually miss this. but fucking ranks? come on. it's not showing how you're a pro by using lower rank spells, it's a mana regeneration problem. problems either solved or bring new problems if left alone.
-use the new talent system instead of the old 'trees'. yes, both could be googled for 'the best', but balancing trees vs balancing new diablo-like talents?
-yes, I hope they will make boomkins and prot pallys playable. with old talent trees out of the way it's pretty doable.
-make professions relevant.
-increase stack size for mats.
-keep the 'questhelper' and 'atlas'. leaving people to search stuff online is just cruel. back in the day we did it, we hated it. come on.
-balance PVE/PVP items. no more poly-pyro.
-remove 14 dots per mob.
...I bet you can finish the list by yourself now.

and won't touch:
-using potions on CDs
-traveling to the other side of the world and summoning lazy asses.
-WSG, AB, AV.
-lockpick/poison leveling. because rogues must suffer.

I don't think I'm asking for too much. 99% of the stuff is in the game already. they'll just need to do liposuction and a boob job. that's it.
the 'vanilla' as we remember it is way past its best before date. if they roll it out without changes it will be like maintaining a nursing home from 19th century.

[Deleted]

Original Vanille you have to Build up Reputation, you cannot bullshit around or you are pretty much done on the server...one thing i am missing alot nowerdays... having a propper server Community

[clevin]

I suspect that the large part of the "No wait we want a FIXED Vanilla!" is coming from the anti-vanilla camp that behaves like classic servers threaten their very lifehood.

Sure whatever you need to tell yourself to admit that most people who wanted 'legacy' servers had no idea what Classic was really like. It's all a conspiracy. Tighten the tinfoil! TIGHTER!!!!

[thunderdragon2]

as some1 who hasn't played vanilla if i was going to play on the legacy servers id want to experience it as it was back in vanilla no exp changes no class balance changes no qol changes just the way it was back then

[Bigbazz]

It's a perfect example of "give them an inch and they will take a mile".. But yes Vanilla should be Vanilla, take it or leave it.

[Swalload]

I think this is what Blizzard was most afraid of when people were crying for legacy servers.

To the people who want the same experience, this post isn't aimed at you. It's more aimed at the 10+ threads I've seen for the day begging for changes to classes, "QOL" changes, questing changes, XP changes etc.

I'm not here to say be "grateful" that you're getting Vanilla servers, in fact I'm happy for you guys. During this entire campaign, I've been curious as to how the "good ole days" were since I wasn't exactly old enough to enjoy Vanilla properly. I'm actually excited to try it. That being said, I know I'm not gonna stick to it and spend that much time on it. But I'll gladly try it out.

But why ask for changes now? Was it such a dream for Vanilla servers that you guys didn't expect Blizzard to do it, and now you want a "Fixed Vanilla?"
If this experience really is changed can it even be considered Vanilla? I'm genuinely curious about this, because I feel like the fight before was "Retail vs Classic" and this is going to devolve into "Vanilla w/changes vs. Vanilla without changes"

Vanilla comes with this:
1. The old design, how it was back then, including all the bad things and the absence of more recent features. We should be getting that unless enough people cry for QoL changes.
2. The feeling of discovery. We won't be getting that, we already know the game upside down, there's no more surprises whether we want it or not.
3. Not knowing any better. We won't be getting that, classic is not even out and people are comparing it to all the more recent expansions, that's toxic, it has a negative effect on the perception of vanilla, that feeling and mindset did not exist back then.
4. A community with a friendly attitude due to commitment and slow progression. I'm guessing after a month or 2 with only the remaining very few people who stay on classic it will go back to that kind of community. Everyone who just tried the game and expect an oldschool version of Legion are gonna hate it, complain in chat, be toxic, then leave.

The design, the discovery, the ignorance is bliss perception and the community. We are not getting half of that with a rerelease of vanilla. A game is not just a game, it's a life experience and our perception of it changes depending on everything around it. We are never gonna live the hype of vanilla the way we did in 2004, that's completely impossible.

[MrHappy]

They want vanilla with a no-fat cream with zero sugar added and in a glutten-free cone. They want to have their awesome memory moments without how the actual patch 1.X was.
I think Dark Legacy Comic illustrated this point very well....

[Carnedge]

Only thing that needs changed (and it will be changed) are the bugs. Everything else will be the same.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizz added a new/old character model toggle to keep both groups of people unknowingly happy.

What made vanilla so good was:
1.) The lack of good information (You felt like you actually discovered stuff.)
2.) Lack of good UI/Addons (made the game tougher to manage)
3.) Crazy stats/gear/talents (Easy to screw up your character if you were ignorant of these things)
4.) Stronger NPCs and weaker Player characters (Forced community interaction to over come challenges)
5.) Lack of convenience slowed down progression.

And so much more really.

Unfortunately we wont have that same feeling of exploration since most of us have already seen it all and know where everything is. We will also have addon support, like vanilla had, except we will have better authors and more addons now, trivializing certain aspects of the game.

People that cannot control their toxicity, that currently hide behind group finder functions to progress, will have a rough time in classic or just won't survive at all.

All in all if you take a step back and look at the big picture, I see Classic servers doing very well. I hope it does so well that Blizz decides to roll out a Retail server without all of the QOL things it currently has. No heirlooms, LFR, Group Finder, X-Realm.

I have no feels regarding things like Xmog or wardrobe stuff or anything else that doesn't affect gameplay/progression speed. It can go or stay.

[Deleted]

I do hope they:
-remove hit and weapon skills.
-optimize flying paths.
-remove spell ranks. I don't mind learning new stuff from trainers, I actually miss this. but fucking ranks? come on. it's not showing how you're a pro by using lower rank spells, it's a mana regeneration problem. problems either solved or bring new problems if left alone.
-use the new talent system instead of the old 'trees'. yes, both could be googled for 'the best', but balancing trees vs balancing new diablo-like talents?
-yes, I hope they will make boomkins and prot pallys playable. with old talent trees out of the way it's pretty doable.
-make professions relevant.
-increase stack size for mats.
-keep the 'questhelper' and 'atlas'. leaving people to search stuff online is just cruel. back in the day we did it, we hated it. come on.
-balance PVE/PVP items. no more poly-pyro.
-remove 14 dots per mob.
...I bet you can finish the list by yourself now.

and won't touch:
-using potions on CDs
-traveling to the other side of the world and summoning lazy asses.
-WSG, AB, AV.
-lockpick/poison leveling. because rogues must suffer.

I don't think I'm asking for too much. 99% of the stuff is in the game already. they'll just need to do liposuction and a boob job. that's it.
the 'vanilla' as we remember it is way past its best before date. if they roll it out without changes it will be like maintaining a nursing home from 19th century.

And that's entirely too much imo.

Let people experience it exactly how it was. The majority will hate it for being very archaic and rough and a small portion will love it. Blizz seems fine with it.

[Deleted]

I do hope they:
-remove hit and weapon skills.
-optimize flying paths.
-remove spell ranks. I don't mind learning new stuff from trainers, I actually miss this. but fucking ranks? come on. it's not showing how you're a pro by using lower rank spells, it's a mana regeneration problem. problems either solved or bring new problems if left alone.
-use the new talent system instead of the old 'trees'. yes, both could be googled for 'the best', but balancing trees vs balancing new diablo-like talents?
-yes, I hope they will make boomkins and prot pallys playable. with old talent trees out of the way it's pretty doable.
-make professions relevant.
-increase stack size for mats.
-keep the 'questhelper' and 'atlas'. leaving people to search stuff online is just cruel. back in the day we did it, we hated it. come on.
-balance PVE/PVP items. no more poly-pyro.
-remove 14 dots per mob.
...I bet you can finish the list by yourself now.

I hope they don't do any of that. It wouldn't be vanilla with those changes.

-lockpick/poison leveling. because rogues must suffer.

I'm a rogue and I absolutely want these in WoW Classic.

[Deleted]

Vanilla comes with this:
1. The old design, how it was back then, including all the bad things and the absence of more recent features. We should be getting that unless enough people cry for QoL changes.
2. The feeling of discovery. We won't be getting that, we already know the game upside down, there's no more surprises whether we want it or not.
3. Not knowing any better. We won't be getting that, classic is not even out and people are comparing it to all the more recent expansions, that's toxic, it has a negative effect on the perception of vanilla, that feeling and mindset did not exist back then.
4. A community with a friendly attitude due to commitment and slow progression. I'm guessing after a month or 2 with only the remaining very few people who stay on classic it will go back to that kind of community. Everyone who just tried the game and expect an oldschool version of Legion are gonna hate it, complain in chat, be toxic, then leave.

The design, the discovery, the ignorance is bliss perception and the community. We are not getting half of that with a rerelease of vanilla. A game is not just a game, it's a life experience and our perception of it changes depending on everything around it. We are never gonna live the hype of vanilla the way we did in 2004, that's completely impossible.

Newer players (post Cata) might enjoy it though, not sure.

[Ifeanychukwu]

I'm of a mind that the classic servers should have some fixes. I played in vanilla and have been looking forward to classic servers for a long time (I refused to play on private servers). QoL changes should definitely happen imo, things like AoE looting, an option to toggle updated textures, guild banks, the new integrated voice chat features etc...

I'd go so far as to say that there should be some balancing to certain classes. Classes weren't in the state they were because they were intended to be so. There were bugs that rendered certain specs either entirely useless or the only option to use in group content (prot warriors). Adjustments to spell costs so that you can actually play the spec you want without going oom in the first quarter of the fight or specs working a certain way that they could only really be used while leveling. Druids turning into healing touch bots or paladins as holy light spammers for example.

I'm sure I've enraged the majority of the crowd that wants classic servers with that paragraph but it is what it is. Classic WoW wasn't fun because of the bugs and imbalance that made only a handful of specs viable in end game raiding. It was the interactions you had with other people that made the game so great. Don't get me wrong, the crazy grinds and requirement of grouping with friends to do certain content should stay. The danger of pulling two or three mobs instead of one and having your shit packed in should stay.

Whatever happens I'll be playing on the classic servers regardless.

[Nheme]

It seems there are two camps:

People who love retail but never tried vanilla. (These are the ones who wants updates and QoL stuff)
People who started playing during vanilla. (These are the ones who have experienced what all those QoL stuff did with the community)

[Swalload]

Newer players (post Cata) might enjoy it though, not sure.

I should have added more details, I wasn't talking about discovering the zones. Discovering the game itself, what you can do, what exists, the features, etc. Sure some people will see new things in the environment but the game itself won't offer anything new, just more of a same in a different spot.

[Deleted]

I hope they don't do any of that. It wouldn't be vanilla with those changes.



I'm a rogue and I absolutely want these in WoW Classic.

I wished they still had these in the current game, as (mini) professions or as part of of Engi/Alchy

[Stardrift]

The thing is, a fixed Vanilla is not Vanilla.

Take it or leave it.

That's the way a complete idiot thinks.

Over time, those that are capable of removing their rose-tinted glasses will leave vanilla due to poor balancing, bad and stale end-game content, and the community will boil down to a bunch of elitist fucking retards.

[GorkAndMork]

It seems there are two camps:

People who love retail but never tried vanilla. (These are the ones who wants updates and QoL stuff)
People who started playing during vanilla. (These are the ones who have experienced what all those QoL stuff did with the community)

I love retail, started in Vanilla and don't want any updates on Classic servers. Make a third camp I guess.

[Arkthugal]

The people asking for changes usually never played vanilla that or had little success in it. They have no interest in preserving the game nor making this a success.

I find it more likely that they DID play Vanilla and remember how fucking awful it was.

[Deleted]

It seems there are two camps:

People who love retail but never tried vanilla. (These are the ones who wants updates and QoL stuff)
People who started playing during vanilla. (These are the ones who have experienced what all those QoL stuff did with the community)

Well there's also a big divide between us Vanilla players. And it's not necessarily about rose-tinted-goggles (Engi needs a pair, just saying) but about what you want from a game. Add in the everlasting " Casual vs Hardcore" debate, age etcetc.

I'm just happy Blizz is finally doing this -for whatever cynical financial and legal reasons- so I wont have to hear the lamentations of the more hardcore Vanilla crowd again.






But who are we kidding, right?

[Sundistaya]

I doubt that. I've seen a lot of people who want Classic now immediately change to "It should be this or that." In fact most were like that prior, just that they weren't vocalizing it as much before they were more focused on getting them implemented first.

Fair enough, can't say I remember who wished for what. I just got that feeling, because Mmo-Champion really was very, very anti-legacy like. And anti-private server, but that is (was?) a rule outside of the Nostalrius thread a year or two back.