Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks.

[Deleted]

-Class Balance. I saw no one said: "You know, WoW Classic was great. Paladins were healbots who do shit in other specs, no one wanted Druids even if they went full Restoration, and Arcane mages sucked hard". I saw many people said: "Wow Classic was great because the content felt more rewarding and people communicated with each other much better".
So, there is NO sane reason to keep the Class Balance the same as it was in 2005. There are many people who loved Classic and played feral druids, retri pallies, enhancement shamans without Sulfuras. Why not to make them slightly happier? Did their utter shittiness make WoW Classic great? Absolutely no.
Blizzard should make all class specs playable. Im not asking for global changes like totally new spells and talents. Im asking for numbers tweaks and some changes of talent mechanic for some of the specs to make them competitive.

I was with you until this point, I don't think every spec needs to be hardcore raid competitive, it's okay that druids are more versitile adn warriors are less versitile but better at tanking, mages don't have to buy water and warlocks can summon people, not every class needs to be the best at everything, it's okay for mages to be better than priests

there's the classic video of 40 priests killing onyxia, so technically a priest is a viable raid tank, a druid is better and a warrior is even better than that.

I would however agree to maybe improving the debuff limit, that would make a lot more things viable since currently affliction warlocks and shadow priests are not only not good but actually detrimental to the raid, especially considering that it was never intended as a feature and was simply the result of hardware limitations

[kamuimac]

Maybe, maybe not. We're guessing here now. There is really no way to tell how many people will bother to play it even and then how many of them are going to raid. I know that I'm definitely going to play vanilla WoW but chances of me even trying to raid at this point are minuscule but maybe there are people who are ready and willing to raid 40 man raids again. I hope Blizzard is going to release the Classic as close to the original as possible and only if it doesn't work at all there can be any discussion on what changes are needed to be introduced.

there is a semi good way

look at what happeend to games like wildstar and black desert

90% of people will never reach level 60 unless they nerf leveling

this is 2017 not 2004 - nextto nobody gonna spend 2 months leveling their toons.

then out of those 10 % that will reach level 60 , 90% will drop after a month of farming shit that needs to be farmed in order to raid and when they see how many time they have to attune people for eveyrthing

if after 6 months classic server will have 2-3k active players it will be a veeeeery good outcome.

unless they change the f... out of game - but then it wont be vanilla

people in 2017 dont have attention span to withstand game from 2004 - its just a fact.

[Ifeanychukwu]

The other expansion features NOT IN VANILLA, have about just as much to do with vanilla, as class balances that were NOT IN VANILLA. Very hard concept, isn't it?

Class balance that wasn't in vanilla because they weren't CAPABLE of balancing classes. I know, another hard concept. If they had been able, there would have been balance. They have that ability now, the only reason they wouldn't take advantage of that ability is to appeal to purists like you that can't see reason.

Either way, there WILL be QoL features, whether you'll be able to toggle them or not. This is 2017/2018 Blizzard, not the tiny dev team they had back in 2004. I would play even if those features weren't added but I guarantee you they will happen. Just look at OSRS, they added a ton of features from RS3 that haven't detracted from the enjoyment of the people that play it at all and are still adding features. I'm not even asking for continued addition of features from the live game. Just balance that would have made sense to be in the game at the time if the devs had been incapable of doing it themselves back then.

[Wiedzemir]

there is a semi good way

look at what happeend to games like wildstar and balck desert

90% of people will never reach level 60 unless they nerf leveling

this is 2017 not 2004 - nextto nobody gonna spend 2 months leveling their toons.

Bad example. Wildstar was just a bad game in general IMO and it targeted a playerbase that never existed. Plus don't forget the lure of WoW itself. Here's the thing. A lot of people I know, they're not gamers, not MMO players, they simply play\played WoW. They never touch or touched any other game, just WoW. That's it.

Really, only time will tell what's going to happen if Blizzard decides to release it as close to the original as possible. As I said, I know I'm going to play it but I have not illusions that my tastes in gaming are hardly mainstream as I still routinely play though Daggerfall in, which feels like, 100s time.

[SynDethroc]

If you want classic so badly, then play it as it was at the time... Tweaking it doesn't make it "classic" anymore.

[anon5123]

So, in short, you want the Wotlk version of the game, not Vanilla. Making all specs relatively competitive was Wotlk design philosophy and goal.

What? That's BC, m8. All specs were raid viable in BC. Feral DPS became good, Balance became good, bear tanks got a defense cap talent so they don't need def rating gear, Spriest got good damage and sustain as well as raid utility in giving mana to the healers, Ret became good DPS, Prot became great AoE tank, Ele/Enh DPS became viable, etc.

They didn't do as much as pure DPS, but they were perfectly raid viable regardless of raid setup.

And even in WOTLK, the "hybrid tax" was still very much in place. Rogue/Mage/Warrior/Warlock/Hunter did higher DPS than Spriest or Shaman or Druid or Paladin.

[Azadina]

Class balance that wasn't in vanilla because they weren't CAPABLE of balancing classes. I know, another hard concept. If they had been able, there would have been balance. They have that ability now, the only reason they wouldn't take advantage of that ability is to appeal to purists like you that can't see reason.

Either way, there WILL be QoL features, whether you'll be able to toggle them or not. This is 2017/2018 Blizzard, not the tiny dev team they had back in 2004. I would play even if those features weren't added but I guarantee you they will happen. Just look at OSRS, they added a ton of features from RS3 that haven't detracted from the enjoyment of the people that play it at all and are still adding features. I'm not even asking for continued addition of features from the live game. Just balance that would have made sense to be in the game at the time if the devs had been incapable of doing it themselves back then.

Garrisons weren't in vanilla, because they weren't CAPABLE of creating them at that time. Shall we go on that line of logic?

[Aydinx2]

With current WoW science, leaving the imbalance in the game would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

No, they should not balance the classic version.
Balance has a high impact on gameplay, so by changing that you change the gameplay of the vanilla experience.

[Kithelle]

With current WoW science, leaving the imbalance in the game would lead to tremendous class imbalances. There would only be a few classes "viable" for raids. This is why I think class balance should be addressed in Vanilla. They should at least tweak the numbers, but keep abilities the same. People played a wide variety of classes in the 2004 version simply because they didn't know any better.

Well you wanted Vanilla...and you know what Vanilla was about? Those imbalances...

So I guess what you're trying to say is you really didn't want vanilla?

[Deleted]

Why WoW: Classic Needs the Tweaks.

It doesn't.
You asked for Vanilla experience.
You're getting it.
Enjoy.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Garrisons weren't in vanilla, because they weren't CAPABLE of creating them at that time. Shall we go on that line of logic?

Balance is something that's in EVERY goddamn expansion, balance has gotten better with each, as it should. They're re-releasing vanilla, they SHOULD balance the game to the best of their abilities using the experience they've accumulated over the years. Garrisons were a feature added in a NEW EXPANSION, because when you release expansions they add NEW features (a feature that was almost universally hated), we're talking about something that was in the base game but was bad because of a lack of experience and tools. Maybe you need to assess your "logic" because your arguments are completely pointless.

[Azadina]

Balance is something that's in EVERY goddamn expansion, balance has gotten better with each, as it should. They're re-releasing vanilla, they SHOULD balance the game to the best of their abilities using the experience they've accumulated over the years. Garrisons were a feature added in a NEW EXPANSION, because when you release expansions they add NEW features (a feature that was almost universally hated), we're talking about something that was in the base game but was bad because of a lack of experience and tools. Maybe you need to assess your "logic" because your arguments are completely pointless.

Just play legion and leave vanilla for people to play as it was.

[ombus]

dont say qol doesnt change classic... it does change.. people wanted harder stuff.. well now you get to click every monster corpse to loot, no flying, no pally in horde or shaman in alliance, no free respec, no quest guide, no rebalancing, and many more...

you wanted vainilla ... you get vainilla.

blizz will not change the game too much because then people can and will say that the game is not classic and is no good then quit blaming blizz ...

[Sabever]

Classic does not need tweaks. The imbalances in the game are what made the game so great. Leave the game alone and enjoy it. Don't even touch the character models. WoW subs will top 10MM again.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Just play legion and leave vanilla for people to play as it was.

I'm just sharing my opinions, I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me what to do. I respect your opinions as well, you started with the insults but I still have nothing against you.

I'm going to play vanilla whether there are QoL changes or balance regardless but it is my OPINION that there should be QoL changes as well as balance. Balancing classes will change absolutely nothing besides allowing people to play the classes and specs that they enjoy at a meaningful level. The only logical reason for people to be against balance is because they want to play those broken classes and specs that totally ruin the fun for everyone else.

[Dajeki]

If you want classic so badly, then play it as it was at the time... Tweaking it doesn't make it "classic" anymore.

Kinda what the OP was trying to say. Classic had a lot of other reasons people loved it other than dead specs. Imblanace was a huge part of the game. An enhancement shaman should have no way to compete with a rogue because the enhancement shaman also brings totems.

I played started my wow experience in Vanilla about 7 months before the release of BC and made it to AQ40 Twins. It was a fun experience id love to move through again, which I attempted with a server "That shall not be named". Nothing about the experience was ruined when I jokingly decided I was going to roll elemental shaman for my second time around after maining rogue on retail vanilla (like every other 14 year old boy and their first wow experience). I could lvl to 60 without much effort only stopping to drink with my mage conjured food , which I had received from town before heading to my questing locations.

Everything I did the second time through was nostalgic because of the people I bonded with, the world I was exploring, the sense of acheivment when something was completed, the feeling of being in a large world, sharing memorable experience with complete strangers. All of these things were made possible because of the pacing and difficulty of the game. Questing you grouped with people because you had to for that awesome item and the exp to get you to the next zone, which was impossible to do by yourself. Nothing about my great nostalgic feelings where about the gimp class I was playing but more so exploring the world, feeling enveloped. You would recconize names you saw from lvl 30 at lvl 50 in a new zone. Dungeon whispers from people you pulled from your friends list into group, whispering on how bad your healer is after wiping for 40 minutes.

This gets to my point. Making classes useable would not make the game easier, you can still only bring 40 / 20 people to raids, and I cant speak for anything other than DPS POV, but facing 2 problems while playing ele made no sense other than maybe a technical limitation and a lack of forethought.

I wouldn't mind seeing "nature damage" put on "Curse of elements" or "Nature swarm". Nature resist was pretty rampant in vanilla and it was a big problem to a couple of the hybrids specs (That and mana which would be a slippery slope to address which is why I just skipped it)

The other one would have to be the debuff limit, a lot of dots and things the hybrid classes have are mana efficient however cant be used in raids due to debuff slots.

Just a 2 cent. I know its a slippery slope and I can definitly see both sides of the equation.

[JustRob]

Kinda what the OP was trying to say. Classic had a lot of other reasons people loved it other than dead specs. Imblanace was a huge part of the game. An enhancement shaman should have no way to compete with a rogue because the enhancement shaman also brings totems.

I played started my wow experience in Vanilla about 7 months before the release of BC and made it to AQ40 Twins. It was a fun experience id love to move through again, which I attempted with a server "That shall not be named". Nothing about the experience was ruined when I jokingly decided I was going to roll elemental shaman for my second time around after maining rogue on retail vanilla (like every other 14 year old boy and their first wow experience). I could lvl to 60 without much effort only stopping to drink with my mage conjured food , which I had received from town before heading to my questing locations.

Everything I did the second time through was nostalgic because of the people I bonded with, the world I was exploring, the sense of acheivment when something was completed, the feeling of being in a large world, sharing memorable experience with complete strangers. All of these things were made possible because of the pacing and difficulty of the game. Questing you grouped with people because you had to for that awesome item and the exp to get you to the next zone, which was impossible to do by yourself. Nothing about my great nostalgic feelings where about the gimp class I was playing but more so exploring the world, feeling enveloped. You would recconize names you saw from lvl 30 at lvl 50 in a new zone. Dungeon whispers from people you pulled from your friends list into group, whispering on how bad your healer is after wiping for 40 minutes.

This gets to my point. Making classes useable would not make the game easier, you can still only bring 40 / 20 people to raids, and I cant speak for anything other than DPS POV, but facing 2 problems while playing ele made no sense other than maybe a technical limitation and a lack of forethought.

I wouldn't mind seeing "nature damage" put on "Curse of elements" or "Nature swarm". Nature resist was pretty rampant in vanilla and it was a big problem to a couple of the hybrids specs (That and mana which would be a slippery slope to address which is why I just skipped it)

The other one would have to be the debuff limit, a lot of dots and things the hybrid classes have are mana efficient however cant be used in raids due to debuff slots.

Just a 2 cent. I know its a slippery slope and I can definitly see both sides of the equation.

In order to "balance" classes certain specs (such as ret) would have to be changed dramatically. It will be completely different from vanilla.

[Azadina]

I'm just sharing my opinions, I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me what to do. I respect your opinions as well, you started with the insults but I still have nothing against you.

I'm going to play vanilla whether there are QoL changes or balance regardless but it is my OPINION that there should be QoL changes as well as balance. Balancing classes will change absolutely nothing besides allowing people to play the classes and specs that they enjoy at a meaningful level. The only logical reason for people to be against balance is because they want to play those broken classes and specs that totally ruin the fun for everyone else.

In the meantime, people like you are trying to ruin the experience for anyone who wants it as it was. Then for whatever random reason you feel like other changes that weren't there are outrageous somehow. Bring on the garrisons and lootbox legendaries then too. Flying aswell. You realize some will want those, just as you want the vanilla altered?

[Deleted]

I'm just sharing my opinions, I'd appreciate if you didn't tell me what to do. I respect your opinions as well, you started with the insults but I still have nothing against you.

I'm going to play vanilla whether there are QoL changes or balance regardless but it is my OPINION that there should be QoL changes as well as balance. Balancing classes will change absolutely nothing besides allowing people to play the classes and specs that they enjoy at a meaningful level. The only logical reason for people to be against balance is because they want to play those broken classes and specs that totally ruin the fun for everyone else.

And who are you to say classes weren't balanced in vanilla ? In truth they actually were balanced, it is just they weren't doing the same thing.

As an example and due to how the paladin was able to heal in every spec, it is natural that the burst damage of the spec wasn't that high as the one of the classes that were doing only damage. Else you'd have a situation like in WOTLK where the paladin used to be insanely OP because it 3 shoted people and was impossible to kill (mages could 2 shot people, but were 2 shoted too in that spec).

And what about the druid ? Should it be simply able to tank/heal/do ranged DPS and melee dps all at the same time as well that classes that are specialized in those roles ? Obviously not, and that's why it was mediocre in every aspects (but it did provide utility to support each role).

[Pull My Finger]

No. WoW Classic should be the exact game that 2004 WoW was, without even the slightest hint of any kind of improvement, because that's what you've been telling us that you wanted for all these years.