Only warrior can tank?

[Vestig3]

Wasn´t Kalgan also one the chief culprits of the whole "hybrid = heal or die" philosophy?

But neither of them where class designers lol Alex was Quest designer/Lead story designer and Tigole was Lead world designer.

[thatmikeguy]

The two other classes that "could" tank (Paladins & Druids), were not at all fleshed out enough to hold aggro, take and mitigate damage and lacked the basic abilities Warriors had, such as Sunder Armor.

I'm sorry to say that a lot of this stemmed from the input and involvement of none other than Jeffrey Kaplan and Alex Afrasiabi.

Yeah. You read that right.

Yes... they are staunch defenders of "bring the player, not the class" NOW... but there was a time when they both came from the mindset that only warriors should tank and if you werent a pure dps class (IE: Rogues, Mages, Warlocks) and a hybrid, then your end game role should only be to heal. They were both leaders in a very major Everquest guild named Fires of Heaven (probably the Method of the day) and they held extremely sharp views on what classes should do what. When they got hired by Blizzard they made certain their input was heard.

I am sure they are super nice guys now... but 15 years ago, they were both opinionated and arrogant assholes, and largely responsible for how restrictive the game was.

Yep, and Kern tried to change some of that, along with predicting how PvP would eventually turn out, and he was correct. So he was voted off the island.

[Vestig3]

Remember that Shattered Halls was impossible w/o pala tank.

Impossible lol? then you had poor warriors tanking it coz i ran it a lot for that stupid rep and i never had a problem as a warrior.

[Florena]

Even in BC pallies were more a niece thing I think. Fine for heroics, sure. There was a phrase back then that 'CC = Constant Consecration.' I think they did well tanking hyjal trash, and I remember something about Malchazar hitting fast enough that sometimes warriors could be hit with crushing blows but paladin's holy shield had enough stacks to last through it. But that was as far as I ever got as a prot pally in BC, tanking Kara and a few ZA bosses when we tried to move on from Kara.

I think it was Wrath going by memory that really started pushing for more wide spread viability for all specs.

[Angrie]

As I heard, only warrior could tank in vanilla. Why was that so?
In BC, paladins were great tanks, so what was wrong with pallies in vanilla?
Also, druids?

Paladins didn't have good tools for tanking. They had holy shield which was an active ability. They didn't have taunt, they did have righteous fury though.

I was the "prot" paladin in my guild in vanilla. My job (on Nef) was to have Righteous Fury on and spam heal myself (to get aggro) and keep holy shield active so i didn't die. Warriors would then pick the mobs off me as they came close. Other than that fight, i played just like a holy paladin.

None of the paladin tier gear had the defense stat on it either - which you needed to not get crushing blowed by bosses. However, their core block mechanic required you to be crit... They just didn't work. The WoW classic servers should keep paladins as bad tanks.

[Swalload]

As I heard, only warrior could tank in vanilla. Why was that so?
In BC, paladins were great tanks, so what was wrong with pallies in vanilla?
Also, druids?

Paladins in TBC got a passive that gave them mana back when being healed. In vanilla they would just go OOM and have no way of generating threat during a raid boss fight, so everyone would die.

In 5man fights weren't as long so it was possible to tank dungeons as a paladin and just drink between every single pull and make the dungeon take twice as long than if you had a Warrior and Bear tank.

[Deleted]

So yeah, enjoy Vanilla, tanks.

[shadowmatrix]

As I heard, only warrior could tank in vanilla. Why was that so?
In BC, paladins were great tanks, so what was wrong with pallies in vanilla?
Also, druids?

Based my research it seemed to come from 3 main issues.

1. Paladins didn't have high mana regen so a boss fight could out last their mana. unlike rage users they didn't have any reliable way to keep going.

2. Their best threat generator only worked if they are getting hit. This becomes assive issue when combined with the next issue.

3. They had no taunt. with no snap agro they had no way to take threat back if they lost it.

[Oakshana]

There was 1 place paladins where great in TBC and that was for the waves in Hyjal besides that you didnt need a paladin tank + they had no taunt in vanilla, as for druids we only started using a druid on Brutalis

Well that's a load of horse crap. I mained a paladin from vanilla until wrath. When TBC gave them a real tanking spec, I begged my guild leader the chance to start tanking in Kara. He said I wouldn't be able to. He said I wouldn't be able to hold the aggro and mitigate properly enough. He also told me I'd never be able to tank Maiden.

Well... I proved him wrong. And I did tank Maiden. And I held her aggro fine... because I thought as I tanked and anticipated the silences. In fact, my first night tanking as a paladin was my first night as main tank from Kara through Gruul & Mags, clear up to Sunwell.

Paladins could generate plenty of aggro, as long as their guild was smart. I pulled with my Goblin rocket launcher for single target pulls and consecration created more than enough threat. And all you had to do for taunt was use a macro that taunted the target of your target if the boss targeted someone else. Yes, they didn't have the toolset Warriors did, but they had workarounds.

One of THE most noteable tanks in the game for a long time during TBC was Invisusira, a paladin on Smolderthorn. Paladins were great throughout TBC. Not just on trash packs in Hyjal.

Additionally, I had a friend who was a bear tank who was one of the best tanks I knew and he tanked for his guild the entirely of TBC.

[Aggrophobic]

As I heard, only warrior could tank in vanilla. Why was that so?
In BC, paladins were great tanks, so what was wrong with pallies in vanilla?
Also, druids?

Becuase the game was an unbalanced and poorly designed mess.

[Oakshana]

Wasn´t Kalgan also one the chief culprits of the whole "hybrid = heal or die" philosophy?

Both of them were. Afrasiabi was just more outspoken about it. Hence why I said: "...and if you werent a pure dps class (IE: Rogues, Mages, Warlocks) and a hybrid, then your end game role should only be to heal"

[GRAMMARAXIS]

Also note the terms "White Damage phase" along with "Sunder Stack".

You have to make sure the tank has aggro before going ham, so you just auto attacked until then. In addition to some classes only having auto attack and no instant button attacks.

Paladins had a period where they were called "Buffadins" where their entire job was pretty much buffing 39 other players with 2 minute blessings. Also the judgment system and healing -- which paladins rarely did sadly.

If you're a class with healing besides them, you will be delegated to it. No such thing as a different spec for healers.

Here's a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4TyqYsC26g

[Vestig3]

Well that's a load of horse crap. I mained a paladin from vanilla until wrath. When TBC gave them a real tanking spec, I begged my guild leader the chance to start tanking in Kara. He said I wouldn't be able to. He said I wouldn't be able to hold the aggro and mitigate properly enough. He also told me I'd never be able to tank Maiden.

Well... I proved him wrong. And I did tank Maiden. And I held her aggro fine... because I thought as I tanked and anticipated the silences. In fact, my first night tanking as a paladin was my first night as main tank from Kara through Gruul & Mags, clear up to Sunwell.

Paladins could generate plenty of aggro, as long as their guild was smart. I pulled with my Goblin rocket launcher for single target pulls and consecration created more than enough threat. And all you had to do for taunt was use a macro that taunted the target of your target if the boss targeted someone else. Yes, they didn't have the toolset Warriors did, but they had workarounds.

One of THE most noteable tanks in the game for a long time during TBC was Invisusira, a paladin on Smolderthorn. Paladins were great throughout TBC. Not just on trash packs in Hyjal.

Additionally, I had a friend who was a bear tank who was one of the best tanks I knew and he tanked for his guild the entirely of TBC.

Just because you could doesnt mean it was the best choice and if you read what i said you wouldnt have replied to me i said "Great" coz they where great for the waves in Hyjal, in Kara you would have gone with a warrior in magtheridons lair you would have gone with a warrior on gruul you would have gone with a warrior in SSC warrior, The eye warrior Blacktemple warrior Sunwell warrior. and eventho druids "could" tank and where better then paladins in some cases again not the best choice so no that wasnt loads of horsecrap.

and if people pull the Warriors where crap at Aoe, thats partly true coz most warriors didnt stance dance but then again i also had Thunderfury which was a aoe threat machine which i used till i got The Brutalizer from Supremus.

[Oakshana]

But neither of them where class designers lol Alex was Quest designer/Lead story designer and Tigole was Lead world designer.

It didn't matter back then. Because of who they were at the time, they had the ears of the developers. And there are a lot of anecdotal stories about them threatening to quit during development if they didn't capitulate to what their vision of certain things were. And they were taken seriously because of what they had done during their time in Everquest.

[Pull My Finger]

It was fully intended that way back then. Even in TBC, non-warrior tanks weren't fully equivalent.

[Master Guns]

Take it from someone who actually PLAYED vanilla, and played warriors and paladins, (reading half the comments in this thread makes it quite apparent who doesn't know what the fuck they're even talking about, GG)

Warriors were the only real tanks in vanilla because their tree *before we had talent rows, we had talent TREES* was the only tanking tree that gave them all of the toolkit they actually needed to effectively tank. Druid tanks had a lot of HP, yet had no defensive CD's. Pallies had okay CD's, but they lacked the ability to hold aggro on anything whatsoever. Warriors, however, had an *almost* complete toolkit that gave them what they needed to tank, thus warriors were the premier tanks in classic.

Paladin "protection" tree had a LOT of "protect your allies" spells, which were good HOLY spells actually, and druid "feral" tree was more or less just a cat/bear hybrid tree with no definitive playstyle. It was a mess. Due to this, paladins and druids weren't excellent at tanking at all.

Make no mistake, however - in vanilla, druids and pallies made fine off tanks. Back then, there was a CLEAR difference between your guilds 40 man MT (a warrior) and the OT (preferably another warrior lol), but druids and pallies could "hold aggro for a minute" while the real "tank" did something else, like kiting.

[Oakshana]

Just because you could doesnt mean it was the best choice and if you read what i said you wouldnt have replied to me i said "Great" coz they where great for the waves in Hyjal, in Kara you would have gone with a warrior in magtheridons lair you would have gone with a warrior on gruul you would have gone with a warrior in SSC warrior, The eye warrior Blacktemple warrior Sunwell warrior. and eventho druids "could" tank and where better then paladins in some cases again not the best choice.

And you're basing that on your experiences... right? Which is fine. But I am telling you that I played on Sargeras with some of the best guilds in the game at the time and Paladins and Druids were a LOT more prevalent as tanks than your statement would imply.

I did read what you said. You didn't JUST say they were great for waves in Hyjal. You said that was the ONE place they were great. And that simply isn't true. That's the point I am making.

[therealstegblob]

I know some Paladins actually tanked raids in Vanilla, but I don't believe any Main Tanked. They were just Off Tanks. It's the same deal on Private Servers, though I believe these days some people have actually worked out how to Main Tank raids as a Paladin (not sure on that though).

Bears could hardly tank a level 50 dungeon, as far as I recall.

[david0925]

druids had only maul (that is tied to their auto attack like warrior heroic strike) and swipe for threat generation. You can armor cap and take damage pretty well even in vanilla; lack of defense wasn't a huge issue since you taking crushing damage is like a warrior taking normal damage and you getting crit is like a warrior getting crushign blow, but threat is a huge issue.

Also, I believe (it's been a LONG time) that neither growl and taunt actually gave you uncontested aggro from the mobs in vanilla, if for any reason DPS pulled threat off you taunting it will not necessarily bring it back to you.

[Sodia]

Impossible lol? then you had poor warriors tanking it coz i ran it a lot for that stupid rep and i never had a problem as a warrior.

rrrrrrrrright.... you could hit max 3 guys , thunderclap dident generate agro just so you know or the agro generation was so bad that it was not worth the rage.There was 5+ packs with casters ... and on heroic they war imiune to cc. If you run there in raid/kara grar then i could belive you but first 4 month war was one shoted by this packs. well in most hc dungeons with 3+ packs.