Why the hate towards Genn Greymane?

[derpkitteh]

because he's just a stupid plot device for more faction war.

that's all his character is, that's all it ever will be, and it's a nuisance. same with sylvanas.

[Raiju]

You still have to look at the timelines here. The Broken Shore happened, then we meet our Class Hall, then Genn gets information about Sylvanas and recruits the Alliance to attack her in a secret mission. That's not a lot of time to be telling the Class Hall what the Horde saw, and then that being translated to the Alliance to tell Genn. And even if they had told him, the information he got from Azsuna would've still been enough to convince him to make the attack regardless.

The funeral happened before any of this and it was already information known by alliance military? Not to mention them saying the alliance is still angry about the horde betraying them when revealing BfA.

[Schattenlied]

[*]Warcraft 1: Refused to send aid to Stormwind.

I don't see how that makes him a badguy, they weren't in an alliance at the time, and his kingdom didn't seem to be under threat, he wanted to keep his people safe.

[*]Warcraft 2: Hesitant to join the Alliance of Lordaeron. Did so, but only supplied a small token force.

Again, he wasn't required to do anything at all, but he did.

[*]Warcraft 3: Abandoned the Alliance of Lordaeron, instead building walls to close off his kingdom and hide from the Scourge.

Walls were built before the third war even started, he wanted out of the Alliance before the scourge were even a thing.

[*]This started a civil war in Gilneas, with the rebels opposed to Genn actually sending some troops to help fight the Scourge.

This civil war was mostly because the wall cut through Darius Crowly's land, Crowley got angry and started an uprising, not because people wanted the army sent out to help.

[*]Commissioned Arugal to summon the worgen to hold off the Scourge, inadvertently cursing his people to become bloodthirsty monsters.

And Argul no doubt assured him that he could control the Worgen, Genn's only fault there is believing the lie.

[*]Meta: Strong parallel to the orcs being tricked into drinking demon blood to fight the draenei that isn't explored at all in the narrative.

Yes, that is exactly the above case with the Worgen, only he did so defensively instead of in wanting to conquer a world.

[*]Meta: Plays the victim when Gilneas is invaded by the Forsaken -- the very same people Genn abandoned to die to the Scourge in War3.

He was a victim. He was under no obligation to help during the Third War, he wanted to protect his people, they were his first priority as King.

[*]Meta: Blood rage is cured by a magic hippy ritual. Total narrative copout that diminishes their curse and makes them more morally acceptable to the Alliance without any actual growth or struggle.

Copout, yeah, despite it being Elune, which was where the power over the curse came from in the first place... This was always known. It's not a "hippy ritual", it's just magic and alchemy... That's like 50% of this game.

[*]Meta: Welcomed into the Alliance with minimal pushback (Varian did spit in his face, at least).

Shit changes, karma already bit Genn in the ass, and Varian saw that.

[*]Meta: Starts being whitewashed in the game and books to appear more noble and heroic, making him more palatable to Alliance morality.

Don't see how that's a problem, lore is lore...

[*]Legion: Still blames Sylvanas for Varian's death even though it should become well known that the Horde was forced to retreat after Vol'jin fell. Even if he were right about the Horde retreat, it's hypocritical as hell given what he did to the Alliance in War3.

He didn't do anything in War3, he did it between War2 and War3.

[*]Legion: Jeapordizes the Alliance mission in Stormheim to attack Sylvanas, getting lots of people killed.

and on this:

I feel like I post this several times a day now

www.wowhead.com/quest=40794

That's why he went after Sylvanas in Stormheim, intel was found that said she was up to no good. Sylvanas was also doing selfish things (attempting to enslave the Valkyr for her own hunger for power and immortality) while the "worlds ending" and she did need to be stopped.

Yes, he wanted vengeance, but he didn't just go after her for vengeance, he found another viable reason to go after her, and used it.

[Lochton]

You're right, let's put the Forsaken war machine that used the plague on the same pile as their warchief whom had explicitly forbidden it!

I'm sure those suffering citizens were able to see the difference from one Horde to another Horde, not like our Warchief had the means to stop it, noooo....

[Deleted]

I'm sure those suffering citizens were able to see the difference from one Horde to another Horde, not like our Warchief had the means to stop it, noooo....

Right?! I mean, it's not like he personally went to their leader, called her a bitch, and delicately expressed that he despised not just their means of waging war, but their entire race.
I mean, god forbid we didn't blame a fictional character for dropping his storyline just so the players can have some cool quests they'll forget about in 4 minutes!

[Flurryfang]

I'm really curious why so many people hate Genn Greymane. I see people on the forums commenting " that dog needs to be put down" and other negative statements toward him. I understand that he was somewhat of a racist back in his day, but is there something about him that I'm not aware of that's attracting all the hate? Thanks.

He is pretty much the mirror image of Sylvanas, just as an Alliance character. He is flawed, he has motives other then the faction faction motive, yet he is interesting because of that.

That should really be enough to explain why some might hate him. Some poeple does not like complexity and shuns any form of diffrent point of view then the status quo. He is attacking the horde because he feels like he shoould, even though it is wrong. This makes him a hatefigure for some people, a loveable character for others. It is really up to which glasses you choose to wear when you look at him.

Personally, i think he is beginnng to reach the same lvl of good character writing as Sylvanas, but he needs less hatred and more purpose. Right now he fights just because of vengance, but vengacne is really enough purpose do as much as he does, so i hope that in BFA he gets his own cause to fight for othet then just death to Sylvanas.

[The Stormbringer]

The funeral happened before any of this and it was already information known by alliance military? Not to mention them saying the alliance is still angry about the horde betraying them when revealing BfA.

I'm not sure what you mean by funeral. Whatever the case, Genn felt justified and had reasons beyond revenge for going after Sylvanas. The Alliance knew she was up to no good in Stormheim, they just didn't know what. If not for Genn doggedly (hah) hunting her, the Forsaken would've become a true superpower on EK, leading to an eventual Horde victory over the Alliance and mass slaughter, as well as raising of all humans as Forsaken.

In other words, it wouldn't have gone well, especially since I doubt Sylvanas would've needed the rest of the Horde after that point.

[Steampunkette]

I'm not sure what you mean by funeral. Whatever the case, Genn felt justified and had reasons beyond revenge for going after Sylvanas. The Alliance knew she was up to no good in Stormheim, they just didn't know what. If not for Genn doggedly (hah) hunting her, the Forsaken would've become a true superpower on EK, leading to an eventual Horde victory over the Alliance and mass slaughter, as well as raising of all humans as Forsaken.

In other words, it wouldn't have gone well, especially since I doubt Sylvanas would've needed the rest of the Horde after that point.

That's one hell of a greased up near-vertical surface you launched yourself down at mach speed...

[Deleted]

Because limp wristed folk dislike when characters become competent and get things done. Here things must be made with mutual understanding, love and equality in mind.

Genn deserves to become a true leader, finish Anduin off, get the throne for himself, force Callia into marriage, fill her womb with treats and rule like a man should. Stormwind-Gilneas-Lordaeron combined sigil would look nice.

[wrv451nlp]

Because its tend to be forgotten that the Alliance and Horde are like the Americans vs Soviets, Even under the threat of global annihilation they still cant to let the other get such a significant edge that will be used in the future, A inevitable conflict was brewing, Even the ex-hippie Anduin acknowledged that,

Genn Greymane is still clearly holding a grudge over his slaughtered kin and destroyed home, He received information about the plot of the Forsaken in Stormheim, It was not incorrect to go against Slyvannis, Subjugating the Val'kyr would have gave her a un-exhaustable tool of resurrection for her army, Impossible odds for the Alliance to ever maintain stability in the upper-ek,

To say Slyvannis is justified, But then throw the book at Genn is just plain and simple bias.

[Schattenlied]

It was not incorrect to go against Slyvannis, Subjugating the Val'kyr would have gave her a un-exhaustable tool of resurrection for her army, Impossible odds for the Alliance to ever maintain stability in the upper-ek,

Not to mention her attempting to enslave an entire race of beings is an inexcusable act in itself, regardless of the power it would have given her later on.

[Steampunkette]

Not to mention her attempting to enslave an entire race of beings is an inexcusable act in itself, regardless of the power it would have given her later on.

Oh, absolutely. No one could reasonably argue that what Sylvanas was doing, there, was anything but evil.

But Genn had no idea of what she was doing beyond a vague waterlogged notebook. That's like going to murder your son's killer who was exonerated in court (Even though you witnessed it) and after you murder them, you find out they were also totally into child pornography and the police find all kinds of evidence to it after they clean up the crime scene from where you murdered them.

You're still going to prison for murder, but at least you killed a murdering child pornographer. Good for you!

*door slams to the prison cell you're now in*

The after the fact justification doesn't work for the moral responsibility of his actions.

[Schattenlied]

Oh, absolutely. No one could reasonably argue that what Sylvanas was doing, there, was anything but evil.

But Genn had no idea of what she was doing beyond a vague waterlogged notebook.

It was enough. It's long known, at least in lore, that the Valkyr came from that area... And that she has Valkyr of her own, easy to put two and two together... Even aside from that it was known that she was going to "steal the very power of the v... [f]or herself!". War for the planet is going on and she is running off to go further her own ends? That alone is enough reason to go stop her...

That's like going to murder your son's killer who was exonerated in court (Even though you witnessed it) and after you murder them, you find out they were also totally into child pornography and the police find all kinds of evidence to it after they clean up the crime scene from where you murdered them.

No, it's more like you found evidence of them forcing children to participate in it, and then you went and killed the person and freed the children.

You wanted vengeance, but you didn't take it until you found a situation that would justify allowing you to take it... Yes, Genn didn't go there to free the Valkyr, he didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart, he wanted vengeance, but that doesn't mean what he did was wrong, he just did it for a selfish reason.

The after the fact justification doesn't work for the moral responsibility of his actions.

Seems to.

[Yarathir]

Sylvanas fanboys are crazy, OP. That's all I can realistically say.

[Niroshi]

He's about the only main leader of the Alliance that could be construed to be "bad", and for some reason people desperately want parity with Sylvanas regardless of how impossible that is.

[StationaryHawk]

It's always amusing to watch each side of this weird Sylvanas vs Greymane debate accuse the other of rampant fanboyism.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I mean, personally I think Genn is just a little lame? His whole thing is that he has a grudge against Sylvanas. That doesn't make me dislike him really, just not be that invested in him, although he did gain my respect when he broke the lamp. He's a go getter.

I do have some issues with the possibility he is instigating a larger scale faction war because of his grudge, something that's just all about his self satisfaction. That part doesn't make me like him so much, because it makes him feel like a spanner in the works. It's just pretty often that a character being motivated by self righteousness screws things up because of that, so it makes me wary of him.

[Steampunkette]

It was enough. It's long known, at least in lore, that the Valkyr came from that area... And that she has Valkyr of her own, easy to put two and two together... Even aside from that it was known that she was going to "steal the very power of the v... [f]or herself!". War for the planet is going on and she is running off to go further her own ends? That alone is enough reason to go stop her...

I'm sorry, I guess I must've missed the part of the waterlogged journal where it says "My Dark Lady Sylvanas intends to use Helya's Lantern to enslave an entire people unless someone stops her." 'Cause "Steal their Power for herself" doesn't itself equate to enslaving a people.

Again, he didn't know she was going to enslave them, even had the ability to do so, or that they had a god-entity in Eyir that -could- be enslaved.

Only that she was heading to the place the Val'kyr live to stop the extinction of her people.

We're right back to the former scenario, where Genn had no idea of the child porn. What a weird metaphor I settled on...

He pre-meditated her murder, and then got an excuse hours, days, or weeks after he'd decided to do it. Still doesn't exonerate his decision and attempted murder. Just an after the fact bonus.

[Chinese Bootlickers]

He shat on their undead waifu.

[Deleted]

I don't really hate him, just dislike him. Similar to how I dislike Sylvanas.

He abandoned the alliance, let Alliance citizens fleeing the scourge die instead of allowing them in and now he uses Alliance resources for a personal vendetta. Preventing Sylvanas from becoming a bigger threat to the Alliance was nothing but luck as it legitimises his actions and his drain on Alliance resources after the fact. You may kid yourself but it's nothing but his own vendetta and blind hatred for Sylvanas. It appears he considers every (perceived) attack against the Alliance by anything with a possible link to the Horde to be a personal slight against him by Sylvanas. He is so obsessed with her that he can't fathom the possibility she isn't obsessed with him.

That said, I wouldn't mind it if all of this ended in their mutual destruction.

EDIT: I do however like how Genn seems to head towards a redemption of sorts via Anduin. In short, Genn wants a son and Anduin needs a dad, they find each other. I know Genn has a daughter but like a stereotypical medieval king he'd rather have a son.