"legion is harder"

[Queen of Hamsters]

because more ppl on average raid in the game today than they did in classic.

That, and it should be compared.

Now, tons of people can down the last bosses on the lowest possible difficulty iteration of the game, balanced around mouthbreathers.
Back then, time restraints made it difficult for many to catch up, but you could get to see bosses of the highest tier (1 difficulty, aimed at organized raiders) despite being an absolutely shitty player on the basis that you had time to spend preparing for raids.

On current Classic Blizzlike servers, the percentage seeing bosses go down is plenty high, and it will be on the official servers as well thanks to the servers being forever locked from progression into TBC. It's inevitable when players having experienced 13 years worth of game evolution attack content that not only many of them already experienced, but is also bare-bones simple from a mechanical standpoint.

[Grimreaper]

Because those raids don't have attunements that account for about 80% of the raid's difficulty, resist gear farming, there is more information online: WoWhead, gearing help, tactic videos, Public Test Realms, better communication systems, better internet and everything is more fairly tuned. (no literally unkillable C'Thuns)

Any more questions?

So raiding is easier then, got it.

[Yarathir]

So raiding is easier then, got it.

Yes, if that's how you choose to interpret it to ease your mind on the fact that raiding today is intrinsically, objectively more difficult, do so, Timmy.

[Alienshroom]

Dude, I WATCH PEOPLE DO IT RIGHT NOW. Holy shit, this is frustrating.

Ok you spend your time sneering on forums and watching vanilla enthusiasts beat a couple of bosses. Has LFR and random dungeons in retail taught you nothing? Very few people are going to roflstomp these raids. Even if they did, they wont, but it wont be any different then retail. The "normal" and up raiding modes are played by what % of the WoW subscriber base? Its not a ton and it was even worse before smooth sailing "Flexible" mode. So smashing the raids wont even be a problem for the bulk of people who play if it were even possible to begin with... You literally have no point. Your complaining about a non issue. 10 year old veterans of the series running a raid they have done many times before is not really ammunition for any "Its too easy" complaints.

[Queen of Hamsters]

You cant raid if you cant afford to repair your gear during wipenights, can we agree on that? Well, that was the actual case in vanilla. To put it in perspective, imagine if doing a full repair on your red gear today costed you 1 million gold. Would you raid? Would you? How many hours would you need to farm gold between raids in order to simply repair your gear?

Whataboutisms and logistics made up the difficulty of Vanilla raiding.

Whataboutisms don't exist, and the logistics are a hell of a lot easier today when there are guides everywhere to everything, unlike back then.

We can compare being able to handle logistics from a time spent standpoint to oh I don't know... meeting requirements for performance on a personal level? Being able to perform with your class vs bosses and also working with a team where EVERY player counts, rather than 15 out of 40?

[Deleted]

So raiding is easier then, got it.

Raiding is easier with raids beeing diametraly harder than in vanilla...

That's where the true difficuty lies today

But you clueless vanilla blind fanboys don't want to even hear about that

[Yarathir]

Raiding is easier with raids beeing diametraly harder than in vanilla...

That's where the true difficuty lies today

But you clueless vanilla blind fanboys don't want to even hear about that

I guess Classic fans would be ecstatic and call Antorus the most difficult raid ever if Blizzard didn't release it or at least gated the last boss until July 2018. After all, that means it didn't get cleared for months!!!

[Terongor]

The top10 race isnt really much of an argument, not when <casual Joe & friends> can walk in to the raid 4 weeks later and stomp the place with his 6 hours per week schedule. Wasnt really possible to clear anthing beyond MC as casual players.

So casual Joe can defeat unnerfed Mythic KJ 4 weeks after mythic raid was opened?

I just wait to see that method defeats most vanilla raids under 50 wipes.

[Marfrilau]

I guess Classic fans would be ecstatic and call Antorus the most difficult raid ever if Blizzard didn't release it or at least gated the last boss until July 2018. After all, that means it didn't get cleared for months!!!

No that would not be enough. Better yet make it a requirement that you'd have to jump for two days straight before you can pull a boss. The jumping has to be done before each pull of course!

[Grimreaper]

So casual Joe can defeat unnerfed Mythic KJ 4 weeks after mythic raid was opened?

I just wait to see that method defeats most vanilla raids under 50 wipes.

You mean 4 weeks after the top10 have killed it... Oh wait, reading is the hard part of raiding nowadays.

- - - Updated - - -

No that would not be enough. Better yet make it a requirement that you'd have to jump for two days straight before you can pull a boss. The jumping has to be done before each pull of course!

Still would be less time consuming than to raid in vanilla.

[Yarathir]

No that would not be enough. Better yet make it a requirement that you'd have to jump for two days straight before you can pull a boss. The jumping has to be done before each pull of course!

Wooow, that would make Antorus the most difficult raid ever!

Also, entering Antorus would require that you have at least Argussian Reach and Army of the Light exalted on 12 characters plus every toy in the game available.

That would make it absolutely supper difficult like Vanilla!

[Grimreaper]

Wooow, that would make Antorus the most difficult raid ever!

Also, entering Antorus would require that you have at least Argussian Reach and Army of the Light exalted on 12 characters plus every toy in the game available.

That would make it absolutely supper difficult like Vanilla!

To find 20 people willing to do that, yes it would.

[Queen of Hamsters]

So casual Joe can defeat unnerfed Mythic KJ 4 weeks after mythic raid was opened?

I just wait to see that method defeats most vanilla raids under 50 wipes.

Might not even be Method, since so many players on certain types of Blizzlike servers have cleared those Vanilla raids over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over etc x infinity with each setback of having a server go down/get shutdown.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Method does it first though.

[Deleted]

You mean 4 weeks after the top10 have killed it... Oh wait, reading is the hard part of raiding nowadays.

After the boss has been nerfed numerous time, they had to nerf avatar with a live hotfix otherwise method coulndt have managed to beat it, and it was not the last boss.

[Heathy]

at the end of the day the only way the classic progression pacing is working today is if expansions don't release every 1-2 years, if blizzard want to release an expansion every 2 years then the content just needs to last 2 years, it doesn't need to be a perpetual grind for a decade to be interesting, fun or challenging.

the pace of the game today is good enough that the ppl who want to see the content get to see the content before its no relevant any more, the progression is balanced around how much effort you put into farming upgrades and whether or not you want to progress through all the difficulties.

if you only want to casually run normals you can do that, and you don't need to break your back farming enough gear to be able to successfully do that.

if you do heroic you'll need to put in a bit more effort to min/max and push a little more.

if you do mythic you are going to want to farm the best possible gear you can get your hands on to push progress.

the content, the progression, its all balanced around how long it needs to last until the next expansion.

[MoanaLisa]

This has been derailed to the point where no one is talking about classic WoW at all. In that case it's closed.