So Alliance lost the Nightborne beacuse Tyrande was a dick?

[Hitei]

while being torn apart by 2 fighting factions. Not on the street? man THEY! ARE! IN! THE! MIDDLE! they are best strategic point for launching assault! it's like natural base for defending your continent and making attacks on other! (and afted adding zandalar it will be just line wich willl be VEEEERY hard to cross for Aliance forces without being seen.). i can make you example of this from RL, but i don't want to bring RL politics to this topic this much. Already done enough.

And if they'd stayed neutral, they wouldn't have had to worry about being pulled into that fight. If they had stayed neutral, they would have been left alone. Now they are a prime target.



Where they were was tucked out of the way of direct conflict, and by just focusing on themselves and rebuilding, they could have kept the war out of their lands. Now they are a hostile city right next to an enemy launching point, on the enemy's side of the ocean.

The Alliance will not have any trouble crossing to Zandalar without being seen. You are talking about hundreds of miles of ocean.

[Beloren]

Has the reason even been revealed yet? Seems like one of those silly fan conclusions. Tyrande had every right to say what she said to her own people as High Priestess. And she went out and helped the nightborne just as much as the night elves. It would be stupid for the nightborne to side with us just because of that and elves aren’t idiots. I thought the main reason wasn’t revealed yet. And is to be revealed. But if tyrandes comments in 7.1 are the reason blizzard use. Then their writing on elves just looks even more stupid than before. As if the joke between humans competing with blood elves on magic wasn’t bad enough. The. What advantage does higher than human intellect, born in a magical affirming society and having hundreds if not thousands of years of experience in it actually give you then?

But hey. It looks when it comes to elves if any kind blizzard forget their own lore

[Shakou]

The only "Positive" angle I could see out of Thalyssra heading to Ashenvale to "Test out her skills" is trying to create a new Nightborn settlement at a Leyline Crossing or something, then creating a defensive barrier against Nelf attacks. Then Tyrande can be righteously angry and attack her, triggering the retaliatory strike all the way up to the burning of Teldrassil with the attack being the justification Sylvanas needs to convince the other Horde Leaders to take down Tyrande.

But it's -VASTLY- more likely that the Devs are throwing away Thalyssra's characterization in favor of "LuLz! I am Horde, Nao! MUST ATTACK ALLIANCE!"

You're really just going to keep doing this instead of actually reading the full datamining which isn't confusing at all?

okay I'm not spoiler tagging this because y'all are off in full on baseless speculation now that isn't remotely accurate territory. While Thalyssra and Liadrin are good friends and her and Tyrande are not, this is not the primary reason the Nightborne join the Horde at all.

Thalryssa is personally invited to Silvermoon when Alleria makes a surprise appearance, she joins the Horde after she witnesses Alleria corrupting the Sunwell with the void and cleanses it. Okay? Now you know how the Void Elves are created too you happy?

Jesus people. You don't have to head cannon, you can read the datamining. Sorry not sorry for spoilers.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=277419/d...7-3-5-spoilers

I;'m

[Steampunkette]

You're really just going to keep doing this instead of actually reading the full datamining which isn't confusing at all?

okay I'm not spoiler tagging this because y'all are off in full on baseless speculation now that isn't remotely accurate territory. While Thalyssra and Liadrin are good friends and her and Tyrande are not, this is not the primary reason the Nightborne join the Horde at all.

Thalryssa joins the Horde after she witnesses Alleria corrupting the Sunwell with the void. Okay? Now you know.

Jesus people. You don't have to head cannon you can read the datamining. Sorry not sorry for spoilers.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=277419/d...7-3-5-spoilers

I;'m

READ MORE.

At the bottom you get Liadrin and Thalyssra hanging out BEFORE she heads to freaking Silvermoon, Shakou. It's not "Alleria did the thing! Quick!Send for Thalyssra in Suramar to come fix it for us!" it's "Hey, Liadrin. Glad we could talk in pleasant circumstances. So I wanna join the Horde. Originally I was gonna go Alliance, but they're a bag of dicks." "Wait, really? How do we know you won't betray us like Elisande?" "Cause I won't!" "Great! Let's go to Silvermoon so you can talk to Lorthemar."

Then when they get to Silvermoon Alleria's there, there's some chit-chatting, everyone heads to the Sunwell. And then OH NOES! Voidstuffs! Thalyssra helps shut it down, Alleria gets permanently banished from Silvermoon, and the Nightborn join the Horde.

It's in the previous post I amde. The one where I directly responded to your claim.

[Zorish]

And if they'd stayed neutral, they wouldn't have had to worry about being pulled into that fight. If they had stayed neutral, they would have been left alone. Now they are a prime target.

sorry but i can't stop laughing how naive people can be. Not being pulled in the conflict while being in the middle between two factions, while already having one of this factions allies right next to them (tauren), having strategic position for lauching attacks on both factions. You understand that if they not make aliance with someone - both factions will start marauder raids on their city? for supplies, trinkets, books, etc. This is WAR man. War is ugly, cruel, and totaly not pleasant, and profitable only to small numbers, while others suffer. By this aliance Nightborne will reduce their casualities at least from one side (cause if sylvanas not stupid she will make this bastion of defense stronger, and at least try to defend it, and being closer to their "brothers and sisters" in silvermoon will help them too), while they get resources for, as you say "rebuilding their city" and taking right place in this world after 10k years of isolation. You can try to isolate yourself from the world. But world can just smirk on your "isolation"

[Shakou]

I read the whole thing in order. You did not. You are missing context and making up shit.

Sunwell Encounter
Grand Magister Rommath: Something seeks to open a rift into the chamber. If it comes through, we may lose the Sunwell.
Alleria Windrunner: I can close the rift--but I will need help.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Tell us what to do, and we will lend our strength.
Nether-Prince Durzaan: The vessel has been found!
Grand Magister Rommath: It wants the Sunwell!
Nether-Prince Durzaan: The door opens. Yes... this should suit our needs.
Alleria Windrunner: Now! Focus your power with mine!
Nether-Prince Durzaan: You only delay the inevitable! I will yet have my prize.
Lor'themar Theron: The Sunwell is secure. Your aid was invaluable, Thalyssra. And yours, champion.
Grand Magister Rommath: Guards! Seize this saboteur.
Alleria Windrunner: I will not be taken prisoner in my own homeland.
Lor'themar Theron: Enough! You will leave at once, Alleria. Accident or no, your presence poses a danger to Quel'Thalas. Go back to Stormwind. Silvermoon is no longer your home.
Alleria Windrunner: As you command, Regent Lord. For now.
Lor'themar Theron: I regret you had to witness that exchange, Thalyssra. This is not how I planned your visit to unfold.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: On the contrary. This conflict has demonstrated your dedication to your people. I can see that the Horde has allowed you to uphold your traditions--something that is very important to us.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: We gain strength from our allies... but we have not lost who we are.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Suramar will always be our home. But some among my people wish to venture out into the world, to claim our place in Azeroth once again. To do that, we need allies.
Lor'themar Theron: The Horde offers that to you, First Arcanist. Join us. The gates of Silvermoon stand open to you.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: On behalf of the nightborne, I accept your proposal. From this day forth, Suramar fights for the Horde.
Lor'themar Theron: Excellent! Lady Liadrin, please return to Orgrimmar and tell the warchief the good news.
Lady Liadrin: It will be my pleasure, Regent Lord. I will meet you in Silvermoon, champion.
Alleria tenses defiantly.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Good luck, $p. As for me, I am going to test my skill in Ashenvale. For the Horde!.

No Thalyssra doesn't just randomly decide "Fuck it Tyrande was a dick so I'm for the Horde and gonna kill some Night Elves!"

The Horde make a sincere effort to befriend them and then Alleria shows up to offer Lor'themar to join the Horde, then the Sunwell corruption void shit happens.

Lor'themar Theron: What is happening?
Lor'themar Theron: This is why I demanded that Umbric and his radicals be exiled. Anyone who treats with the Void is a danger to the Sunwell!
Alleria Windrunner: I did not intend for my presence to...


Alleria might have not intended it, but she knowingly or knowingly caused this incursion and the Blood Elves that become Void Elves are there or nearby when this happens and Lor'themar calls their leader by name as you see there.

Why is that relevant? Read also the parts about the Void Elves in the datamining and it's all pretty clear.

My point is that this is definitely well planned out and not just random decisions made because reasons that make no sense.

[Kithelle]

You -might- have a point. But the Void Elves didn't discard a character's entire characterization in favor of "Grrr! I am Horde!"

In fact with Ily'gynoth's musings about the shadows masked by the blazing surface, the Void Elves are probably a little deeper than we originally gave them credit for!

- - - Updated - - -



Also the Highmountain, their literal next door neighbors, are joining the Horde 'cause of course those Antlered Cowfolk are.

That'd make a -great- staging point for a Horde Invasion Force on Suramar. Even moreso if they'd joined the Alliance.

I don't know...fact they exist seems so stupid to me.

Logically the Blood Elves would either try and reform or execute the void dabblers...but instead they kick these ticking time bombs out. I mean they're so worried about the Sunwell being corrupted? Why the hell would they let the people who could do that go free?

[Zorish]

Has the reason even been revealed yet? Seems like one of those silly fan conclusions. Tyrande had every right to say what she said to her own people as High Priestess...

i don't want to insult Elf race, but "old habits die hard". Imagine if you have blood revenge one someone 10k years ago... and after all this years... YOU ARE STILL ALIVE! (or maybe your son). Long live - long memory man. Tyrande remember WotA, and nightborne remember it too. Elves by themself have very big problem with stagnation. Cause if you live long - why you must hurry (and especialy after NE gone druid - cause magic require creating new things, while nature... - no)?

[Steampunkette]

I read the whole thing in order. You did not. You are missing context and making up shit.

Sunwell Encounter
Grand Magister Rommath: Something seeks to open a rift into the chamber. If it comes through, we may lose the Sunwell.
Alleria Windrunner: I can close the rift--but I will need help.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Tell us what to do, and we will lend our strength.
Nether-Prince Durzaan: The vessel has been found!
Grand Magister Rommath: It wants the Sunwell!
Nether-Prince Durzaan: The door opens. Yes... this should suit our needs.
Alleria Windrunner: Now! Focus your power with mine!
Nether-Prince Durzaan: You only delay the inevitable! I will yet have my prize.
Lor'themar Theron: The Sunwell is secure. Your aid was invaluable, Thalyssra. And yours, champion.
Grand Magister Rommath: Guards! Seize this saboteur.
Alleria Windrunner: I will not be taken prisoner in my own homeland.
Lor'themar Theron: Enough! You will leave at once, Alleria. Accident or no, your presence poses a danger to Quel'Thalas. Go back to Stormwind. Silvermoon is no longer your home.
Alleria Windrunner: As you command, Regent Lord. For now.
Lor'themar Theron: I regret you had to witness that exchange, Thalyssra. This is not how I planned your visit to unfold.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: On the contrary. This conflict has demonstrated your dedication to your people. I can see that the Horde has allowed you to uphold your traditions--something that is very important to us.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: We gain strength from our allies... but we have not lost who we are.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Suramar will always be our home. But some among my people wish to venture out into the world, to claim our place in Azeroth once again. To do that, we need allies.
Lor'themar Theron: The Horde offers that to you, First Arcanist. Join us. The gates of Silvermoon stand open to you.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: On behalf of the nightborne, I accept your proposal. From this day forth, Suramar fights for the Horde.
Lor'themar Theron: Excellent! Lady Liadrin, please return to Orgrimmar and tell the warchief the good news.
Lady Liadrin: It will be my pleasure, Regent Lord. I will meet you in Silvermoon, champion.
Alleria tenses defiantly.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Good luck, $p. As for me, I am going to test my skill in Ashenvale. For the Horde!.

No Thalyssra doesn't just randomly decide "Fuck it Tyrande was a dick so I'm for the Horde and gonna kill some Night Elves!"

The Horde make a sincere effort to befriend them and then Alleria shows up to offer Lor'themar to join the Horde, then the Sunwell corruption void shit happens.

Lor'themar Theron: What is happening?
Lor'themar Theron: This is why I demanded that Umbric and his radicals be exiled. Anyone who treats with the Void is a danger to the Sunwell!
Alleria Windrunner: I did not intend for my presence to...


Alleria might have not intended it, but she knowingly or knowingly caused this incursion and the Blood Elves that become Void Elves are there or nearby when this happens and Lor'themar calls their leader by name as you see there.

My point is that this is definitely well planned out and not just random decisions made because reasons that make no sense.

First Arcanist Thalyssra: The Alliance feels too walled off... too cloistered. My people will never endure such stagnation again.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: That is why I am grateful for your invitation to Silvermoon. I would like to inquire whether there could be a place for the nightborne in your Horde.
Lady Liadrin: I am sure the regent lord will be pleased to learn of your interest. Are you ready to depart?
First Arcanist Thalyssra: It would be an honor, Lady Liadrin. Oculeth has the coordinates to your capital. I will gather Silgryn and Valtrois, and meet you in Silvermoon.

BEFORE SHE LEFT SURAMAR she had already decided to join the Horde.

The shit that went down at the Sunwell may have, exactly as she said "Demonstrated your dedication to your people.", but the decision was made before she even MET Lorthemar. She was already planning to inquire if there was a place in the Horde.

[Hitei]

sorry but i can't stop laughing how naive people can be. Not being pulled in the conflict while being in the middle between two factions, while already having one of this factions allies right next to them (tauren), having strategic position for lauching attacks on both factions. You understand that if they not make aliance with someone - both factions will start marauder raids on their city? for supplies, trinkets, books, etc. This is WAR man. War is ugly, cruel, and totaly not pleasant, and profitable only to small numbers, while others suffer. By this aliance Nightborne will reduce their casualities at least from one side (cause if sylvanas not stupid she will make this bastion of defense stronger, and at least try to defend it, and being closer to their "brothers and sisters" in silvermoon will help them too), while they get resources for, as you say "rebuilding their city" and taking right place in this world after 10k years of isolation. You can try to isolate yourself from the world. But world can just smirk on your "isolation"

Lol, first, you are confusing actual war for fictional war, the Alliance and Horde don't generally go around attacking neutral parties for supplies.

Second, if anything is naive here, it's your shortsightedness when it comes to tactical advantage. The second a faction raids that city for supplies (lol, why even? The Alliance is right next to its core kingdoms there with an open shipping lane, they don't need to steal supplies, the Horde has an open channel to Kalimdor and Pandaria from Zandalar, stealing from Suramar means crossing the front over to where the Alliance has an advantage), Suramar would turn against that faction and put them at a disadvantage in the area.

By making this alliance, all the Nightborne have done is gone from being untouched to extremely likely to be attacked/thoroughly sieged. Getting supplies from Silvermoon (Quel'thalas is across the world and requires them to sail across Alliance territory) is nonsense, and it doesn't make them any stronger, they are a sitting duck isolated from the main Horde forces by the Maelstrom and an ocean, and isolated from Quel'thalas by an entire continent and Alliance territory.)

Stop trying to apply real-world logic to a fantasy setting, you know whose isolation worked out for them? Basically every other neutral faction in the game.

[Shakou]

First Arcanist Thalyssra: The Alliance feels too walled off... too cloistered. My people will never endure such stagnation again.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: That is why I am grateful for your invitation to Silvermoon. I would like to inquire whether there could be a place for the nightborne in your Horde.
Lady Liadrin: I am sure the regent lord will be pleased to learn of your interest. Are you ready to depart?
First Arcanist Thalyssra: It would be an honor, Lady Liadrin. Oculeth has the coordinates to your capital. I will gather Silgryn and Valtrois, and meet you in Silvermoon.

BEFORE SHE LEFT SURAMAR she had already decided to join the Horde.

The shit that went down at the Sunwell may have, exactly as she said "Demonstrated your dedication to your people.", but the decision was made before she even MET Lorthemar. She was already planning to inquire if there was a place in the Horde.

I read all of this, it doesn't back up your point of view and what you are saying here is wrong.

Thalyssra doesn't make the decision to join the Horde before going to Silvermoon. Thalyssra was leaning toward joining with the Horde before, and then made the decision after visiting Silvermoon where the Sunwell is corrupted by Alleria's presence when she simultaneously had arrived to invite the Blood Elves into the Alliance.

This is actually (part of) how the Void Elves are created, it's all connected. Because of this event, Thalyssra declares her allegiance to the Horde on the spot.

So this whole idea that she just doesn't like Tyrande and randomly decides to kill Alliance is wrong. That's the point. This is very well laid out and plotted.

[NatePsy]

But it's -VASTLY- more likely that the Devs are throwing away Thalyssra's characterization in favor of "LuLz! I am Horde, Nao! MUST ATTACK ALLIANCE!"

You give the writers way too much credit if you think it's more complex beyond this quoted sentence. :P

[Shakou]

You give the writers way too much credit if you think it's more complex beyond this quoted sentence. :P

I actually laid out all of the dialogue from this here. Read the thread. it's not that simple at all.

[Steampunkette]

I read all of this, it doesn't back up your point of view and what you are saying here is wrong.

Thalyssra doesn't make the decision to join the Horde before going to Silvermoon. Thalyssra was leaning toward joining with the Horde before, and then made the decision after visiting Silvermoon where the Sunwell is corrupted by Alleria's presence when she simultaneously had arrived to invite the Blood Elves into the Alliance.

This is actually (part of) how the Void Elves are created, it's all connected. Because of this event, Thalyssra declares her allegiance to the Horde on the spot.

So this whole idea that she just doesn't like Tyrande and randomly decides to kill Alliance is wrong. That's the point. This is very well laid out and plotted.

You interpret it how you like. I'll read the text where she talks about wanting to join the Horde before she even gets to Silvermoon.

Joining the Horde because the Belf leader is "Dedicated to his people" in a single random encounter while holding it up against everything that came before is weak writing, particularly since it's clear she wanted to join a faction before that encounter occurred and was actively approaching the Belf Leader about it in the first place.

That said, it's probably the "Taste" the Alliance are getting as to why the Nightborn join the Horde. More's the fucking pity.

[Shakou]

You interpret it how you like. I'll read the text where she talks about wanting to join the Horde before she even gets to Silvermoon.

Joining the Horde because the Belf leader is "Dedicated to his people" in a single random encounter while holding it up against everything that came before is weak writing, particularly since it's clear she wanted to join a faction before that encounter occurred and was actively approaching the Belf Leader about it in the first place.

That said, it's probably the "Taste" the Alliance are getting as to why the Nightborn join the Horde. More's the fucking pity.

I am not interpreting. I am not giving you an opinion at all. What I have addressed here are the facts. Period.

The facts are that the Blood Elves made considerable effort to befriend the Nightborne and make a move to bring them into the Horde which Thalyssra is open to considering because they've earned that. After inviting them to Silvermoon the event that is in part how the Void Elves are created inspires Thalyssra to make it official.

It's not random and not thought out and Thalyssra doesn't just throw her character out the window at all or anything remotely like that at all like you're trying to say it happens. That's completely inaccurate.

And the thing is you're missing even more context: the war in BFA breaks out before these events. You quest to bring the Nightborne into the Horde after that, not before.

So there's Thalyssra in Silvermoon invited to discuss potentially joining the Horde, and she's well respected, dignified, treated as an equal, etc. And most importantly, it is made clear they will be able to retain their identity which is what they want more than anything for obvious reasons.

Then Alleria shows up and makes an offer to the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance, and in the process corrupts the Sunwell.

Like, that in and of itself is a solid reason to join the Horde, especially since they are already in a position where they are forced to take sides. It would make absolutely no sense if they were to try to remain neutral after all that, and would be even far more dumb beyond belief if she instead joined the Alliance.

If she were screaming "Death to the Horde!" after this you would have a point, but she's not. She's just solidifying an already very well established friendship with the Blood Elves.

It would be out of character and dumb as fuck if she turned their back on them after witnessing what appears to be the Alliance desecrating the Sunwell. You get it now? Or do I need to keep repeating the same absolutely relevant facts?

[Steampunkette]

I am not interpreting. I am not giving you an opinion at all. What I have addressed here are the facts. Period.

The facts are that the Blood Elves made considerable effort to befriend the Nightborne and make a move to bring them into the Horde which Thalyssra is open to considering because they've earned that. After inviting them to Silvermoon the event that is in part how the Void Elves are created inspires Thalyssra to make it official.

It's not random and not thought out and Thalyssra doesn't just throw her character out the window at all or anything remotely like that at all like you're trying to say it happens. That's completely inaccurate.

And the thing is you're missing even more context: the war in BFA breaks out before these events. You quest to bring the Nightborne into the Horde after that, not before.

So there's Thalyssra in Silvermoon invited to discuss potentially joining the Horde, and she's well respected, dignified, treated as an equal, etc. And most importantly, it is made clear they will be able to retain their identity which is what they want more than anything for obvious reasons.

Then Alleria shows up and makes an offer to the Blood Elves to rejoin the Alliance, and in the process corrupts the Sunwell.

Like, that in and of itself is a solid reason to join the Horde, especially since they are already in a position where they are forced to take sides. It would make absolutely no sense if they were to try to remain neutral after all that, and would be even far more dumb beyond belief if she instead joined the Alliance.

If she were screaming "Death to the Horde!" after this you would have a point, but she's not. She's just solidifying an already very well established friendship with the Blood Elves.

It would be out of character and dumb as fuck if she turned their back on them after witnessing what appears to be the Alliance desecrating the Sunwell. You get it now? Or do I need to keep repeating the same absolutely relevant facts?

So... what do you know about the Warneverchanges leak?

According to him, we're getting the first 4 Allied Races with 7.3.5. He told us that a week before Blizzcon. 2-3 weeks before that, he told us we were getting Allied Races and that Teldrassil and Lordaeron were going to be destroyed.

Which means unless Teldrassil goes down in content that hasn't been datamined in 7.3.5, The Nightborn are slated to join -before- Teldrassil drops. And since we've got no datamined text about Teldrassil, nor quests or items or other clues to it's occurence, it's vanishingly unlikely Teldrassil burns before the Nightborn join.

War breaks out, absolutely, in the events of Silithus and the Seething Shore as both sides scramble to grab Azerite. But going to "Test her Skills in Ashenvale"? Points to something darker than frolicking through the tulips to gather up shards of broken World Soul.

But there's War and there's WAR. Prior to this point destroying important cities and hub zones was either impossible or so difficult that no one did it. And now we're going to watch both sides blow up a city. It's a serious escalation above and beyond squabbling over a resource that is, apparently, found -everywhere- in the world. Going after Teldrassil, even in a time of war, is going to require something bigger than "Let's steal their stockpile of azerite" for Saurfang, Baine, and Lorthemar to sign onto it.

Except it Won't, because "LuLz tiem 2 kill Allance!"

- - - Updated - - -

To be 100% clear with you, Shakou: I think you're a fine poster who researches dilligently and has valid viewpoints. I respect your dedication and that you feel like the amount of effort given in that Alliance and Horde Quest Crossover to show why Thalyssra would join the Horde is sufficient to give the Alliance Players an understanding of why she'd join the Horde instead of the Alliance.

I disagree that it's sufficient. I also feel like her joining and then -immediately- going to Ashenvale, herself, represents a significant departure from the caring, reserved, and insightfully gifted character we worked with in Suramar. There, she carefully laid out her plans to survive, to gather allies, and to work up through espionage and subterfuge to attack a vastly stronger opponent. And now she's being presented as someone who makes a joke of her intent to go kill Night Elves in Ashenvale.

To me, at the very least, it seems like a serious undermining of her character. Not that she'd join the Horde, because of -COURSE- she'd join the Horde based on how the Alliance and Horde both approached the Suramar Revolution and it's aftermath, as well as their interpersonal treatment of her and the cultural similarities and ideological sharing she's got with the Sin'dorei as compared to the Kal'dorei. But that she'd be jovial about heading out to fight.

That's not the attitude of the gentle and caring woman who was heartbroken over how many Nightfallen were dying in the training grounds, or who so carefully retrieved the fragmented memories of one of the twisted wretches too far gone to be healed by manawine. It's the attitude of an Orc ready to go bash some point ears with his buddy.

[Shakou]

So... what do you know about the Warneverchanges leak?

According to him, we're getting the first 4 Allied Races with 7.3.5. He told us that a week before Blizzcon. 2-3 weeks before that, he told us we were getting Allied Races and that Teldrassil and Lordaeron were going to be destroyed.

Which means unless Teldrassil goes down in content that hasn't been datamined in 7.3.5, The Nightborn are slated to join -before- Teldrassil drops. And since we've got no datamined text about Teldrassil, nor quests or items or other clues to it's occurence, it's vanishingly unlikely Teldrassil burns before the Nightborn join.

War breaks out, absolutely, in the events of Silithus and the Seething Shore as both sides scramble to grab Azerite. But going to "Test her Skills in Ashenvale"? Points to something darker than frolicking through the tulips to gather up shards of broken World Soul.

But there's War and there's WAR. Prior to this point destroying important cities and hub zones was either impossible or so difficult that no one did it. And now we're going to watch both sides blow up a city. It's a serious escalation above and beyond squabbling over a resource that is, apparently, found -everywhere- in the world. Going after Teldrassil, even in a time of war, is going to require something bigger than "Let's steal their stockpile of azerite" for Saurfang, Baine, and Lorthemar to sign onto it.

Except it Won't, because "LuLz tiem 2 kill Allance!"

- - - Updated - - -

To be 100% clear with you, Shakou: I think you're a fine poster who researches dilligently and has valid viewpoints. I respect your dedication and that you feel like the amount of effort given to show why Thalyssra would join the Horde is sufficient.

I disagree that it's sufficient. I also feel like her joining and then -immediately- going to Ashenvale, herself, represents a significant departure from the caring, reserved, and insightfully gifted character we worked with in Suramar. There, she carefully laid out her plans to survive, to gather allies, and to work up through espionage and subterfuge to attack a vastly stronger opponent. And now she's being presented as someone who makes a joke of her intent to go kill Night Elves in Ashenvale.

To me, at the very least, it seems like a serious undermining of her character. Not that she'd join the Horde, because of -COURSE- she'd join the Horde based on how the Alliance and Horde both approached the Suramar Revolution and it's aftermath, as well as their interpersonal treatment of her and the cultural similarities and ideological sharing she's got with the Sin'dorei as compared to the Kal'dorei. But that she'd be jovial about heading out to fight.

The full context of that situation is that she is prepared to do for the Blood Elves what they did for her people. There's other dialogue we've already talked about that establishes that Thalyssra does not like/trust the Night Elves. It's that simple. And it's made concrete with this bit of dialogue after they join the Horde:

Joining the Horde
When our city faced its darkest hour, the heroes of Azeroth fought with us to drive out the Legion. Some did so reluctantly.
But the sin'dorei--the blood elves--showed us respect and understanding. Their kinship proved there were others in Azeroth who share our values.

They choose the join the Horde because as I was already saying from the beginning here, the Horde have the same values as them. The Horde accepts people fully into their ranks without asking them to change their cultural identity and customs. The Alliance does not, they expect you to conform and do things their way or else.

Look the dialogue about testing her skills in Ashenvale is really hammy and all but it's not undermining her character and if it is, it's a small offense. On the whole by her joining the Horde they are establishing an evolution of her character. She is going from a person that needed allies to help her save her people, to a person willing to do the same for others.

Liadrin and First Arcanist Thalyssra: Invitation to Silvermoon
First Arcanist Thalyssra: Greetings, Lady Liadrin, $p. Welcome back to Suramar. I am pleased to receive you under more pleasant circumstances.
Lady Liadrin: It is good to see your city free, First Arcanist.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: For that, we owe you both a great debt. You proved instrumental to our cause.
Lady Liadrin: The Horde was proud to fight by your side against the Burning Legion, my lady.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: I must admit, when I first learned of the Horde, I was skeptical that we would share common ground.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: I thought our kin from Kalimdor would make obvious allies. But their arrogance and mistrust soon proved otherwise.
Lady Liadrin: Arcanist Thalyssra. I remember where your order stood in the War of the Ancients. How do we know you won't betray us and become the next Elisande... the next Azshara?
First Arcanist Thalyssra: We do not intend to be slaves to the Nightwell. We seek to drive the Legion from Suramar and put an end to Elisande's oppression.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: The kaldorei will fight to see the Legion defeated and the Nightwell destroyed. Beyond that... we shall see where Elune's wisdom guides us.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: It would seem "Elune's wisdom" guided her away from the bond we once shared. So be it.
Lady Liadrin: The sin'dorei are also scorned by Tyrande and her prideful lot. Yet for many ages her people slept in dens or hid in trees while my people fought to save this world.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: The Alliance feels too walled off... too cloistered. My people will never endure such stagnation again.
First Arcanist Thalyssra: That is why I am grateful for your invitation to Silvermoon. I would like to inquire whether there could be a place for the nightborne in your Horde.
Lady Liadrin: I am sure the regent lord will be pleased to learn of your interest. Are you ready to depart?
First Arcanist Thalyssra: It would be an honor, Lady Liadrin. Oculeth has the coordinates to your capital. I will gather Silgryn and Valtrois, and meet you in Silvermoon.

It could be better written out, but the story itself is well plotted and there are totally solid motivations, and I had predicted as much when people were speculating if Nightborne would ever be a playable race that they would join the Horde from the get go and this totally makes sense. The Blood Elves and them have a lot in common, and joining the Horde absolutely means fighting against the Horde's enemies.

It means they can't be neutral to the Night Elves.

You've got to remember, Blood Elves/High Elves are just Night Elves that adapted and were changed due to the Sunwell. These people are all related. So it's a family fued and that Elves are all Elves and often hate different factions of Elves is established very well not only here but in other places in 7.3.5 and was a huge part of the Battle for Suramar in Legion.

Master Umbric:
Silvermoon turned its back on us long ago. Today we are reborn... and it is fitting that we walk a new path. From this day forth, the Alliance has our loyalty.
High elf? Please. Why would you want to be a high elf when you can look all tragic and brooding?
I admit, purple was never my favorite color. But lately it's growing on me. Literally.
I suppose I can forgive you for not being a fan of elves. After all, half of us dislike the other half rather intensely.

Now there's some other reasons people might be pissed about that dialogue but it is what it is. More or less the Blood Elves are faced with a similar situation to what the Nightborne had just gone through, so of course they are sympathetic to that.


As for the rest, including speculation about Allied races in 7.3.5 and when the burning of Teldrassil happens...I am confident it will play out like this, for one in order for the Nightborne/Void Elve stuff to have a real impact it will have to be laid out now right on the heels of Legion and not brought up later.

To give a little real world background here: Wars don't break out suddenly because of a battle or attack happening out of nowhere, politics and the need for resources are actually a primary and good reason that wars break out. So if you thought that the war breaks out because of either the Battle at Undercity or Teldrassil burning you were already off. The war breaks out before then.

I think how this is gonna go down is like the Broken Shore scenario in Legion. You will play the Battle of Undercity after Teldrassil burns.
And actually more data mined dialogue backs a lot of this up:

Archmage Khadgar
It seems our victory on Argus was a hollow one. With his final blow, Sargeras has done much more than bury his blade in the heart of our world.
I had hoped that after the war against the Legion, the people of Azeroth would build a new future together. But now the unity we forged has been shattered.
As the life essence of Azeroth bleeds out, the leaders of the Alliance and Horde scramble to claim it as a resource. Blades are drawn, and the tides of war are rising once again.

Horde Embassy Dialogue
Sylvanas Windrunner: Leaders of the Horde, I summoned you here--along with one of our greatest champions--because our enemies are gathering their strength.
Sylvanas Windrunner: War is coming. We need fresh blood added to the ranks of the Horde. What say you?
Baine Bloodhoof: Warchief, the tauren of Highmountain fought boldly alongside us in our campaign against the Burning Legion, just as our ancestors did long ago.
Baine Bloodhoof: I have invited their leaders to a great feast in Mulgore. This could be a chance to bring them to our side.
Sylvanas Windrunner: A simple people, but strong. They would be a boon on the battlefield.
Lady Liadrin: I too have a suggestion, Warchief. The sin'dorei have maintained diplomatic ties with the nightborne since we helped liberate Suramar from the Legion.
Lady Liadrin: The regent lord and I agree that our kingdoms have much in common. We believe the nightborne would make valuable allies.
Lady Liadrin: Even without the Nightwell, Suramar holds vast arcane resources. A most useful arrow added to my quiver.
Sylvanas Windrunner: Each option would have its uses. I believe $n knows both these peoples. Which potential ally do you suggest we pursue first?


Anduin:
The strength of the Lightforged is most welcome in our ranks, High Exarch.
Both these qualities will be needed in the days to come. And thank you for your part in bringing them to our cause, $p.
For the Alliance!
I am eager for the Lightforged to join the Alliance. Turalyon, bring our champion with you to the Vindicaar so that you may address your troops together.
It may take time for these void elves to earn the trust of some in our ranks. But so long as they adhere to your teachings, they are welcome in the Alliance.
You have done us a great service this day, Lady Windrunner, $p. You have my thanks.
For the Alliance!
Welcome, friend $p. I am King Anduin Wrynn. As a new member of the Alliance, I wished to greet you personally.
The Lightforged may be a recent addition to our ranks, but I know the draenei well. I am confident you will embody the dedication and courage of the Army of the Light.
The void elves may be a recent addition to our ranks, but Alleria Windrunner is one of our greatest heroes. Under her tutelage, the powers you wield will aid our cause.
These are troubled times for Azeroth. In the days to come, you will face many trials... fight many foes. Know that you are never alone against the darkness, for the Alliance stands with you.
I look forward to hearing of your progress. Something tells me we will speak again soon.
Safe travels, $p. May the Light be with you always.
Safe travels, $p. Though you walk among the shadows, you are a beacon of hope to us all.
Thank you for joining us, champion. These are dire times indeed.
We all know the Alliance incurred heavy losses in the war against the Legion. And even now, the world bleeds in the aftermath of Sargeras's final strike.
Meanwhile, the Horde musters its forces and arms for war. Their aggression must not go unanswered.
Our future depends on bringing other like-minded allies into the fold. I call upon those of you gathered here for your suggestions.
Thank you, High Exarch. Lightforged soldiers would indeed bring strength to our numbers.
Stormwind has suffered at the hands of those who succumbed to the shadow's whispers. But if others could master its power as you have, they would make formidable allies.
Thank you both for your counsel. I would like to hear our champion's perspective on which of these potential allies we should reach out to first.
Lady Windrunner, please begin the search for your exiled kin. Perhaps our champion here can assist you.
You have seen the devastation in Silithus with your own eyes, $p. You know what is at stake.
The Horde will stop at nothing to claim the lifeblood of Azeroth. I fear that after the war against the Legion, our ranks are too depleted to stave off their aggression.
It is time for the Alliance to bring in new members to join our cause. We have established an embassy in Stormwind to spearhead these efforts. Meet me there.

Pure speculation, the Horde won't be responsible for burning Teldrassil, I think it's another ploy by Wrathion who is well due to become a major character in the game again.

[Steampunkette]

Cold War. As soon as Germany was out of the way, the US went after Russia, and China, with zeal even though they'd all been Allies (Or at least on the same rough side) throughout WW2.

It never turned hot, that's for sure,but only because of the looming spectre of everyone on the planet dying in a massive nuclear cloud. For Azeroth, there is no nuke. There's only Azerite and it's mysterious applications that we don't understand, quite yet...

I can accept that maybe the Testing of Skills was a throwaway quip, but it still portrays her as offhanded about the massive violent understaking she's about to enter into. It feels wrong.

[Shakou]

Cold War. As soon as Germany was out of the way, the US went after Russia, and China, with zeal even though they'd all been Allies (Or at least on the same rough side) throughout WW2.

It never turned hot, that's for sure,but only because of the looming spectre of everyone on the planet dying in a massive nuclear cloud. For Azeroth, there is no nuke. There's only Azerite and it's mysterious applications that we don't understand, quite yet...

I can accept that maybe the Testing of Skills was a throwaway quip, but it still portrays her as offhanded about the massive violent understaking she's about to enter into. It feels wrong.

War is never right. But it is very human and it happens very often very suddenly for even tedious reasons after there is a lot of build up towrd that.

I mean I know this history very well, my great grandfather (dad's mother's father) was one of the first officers in the US Army Signal Corp Aviation Div, and a Colonel in both World Wars. He trained every officer that served in WW1 in the renamed Army Air Service, retired the day WW2 ended. So the US Air Force itself is literally part my family Legacy and not only that my Grandpa (dad's dad) was General George S. Patton Jr's personal chef during WW2. For real. Patton amongst others already thought we should not have allied with Russia to begin with, wanted us to invade and not end the war.

So I can understand what is going through these characters minds in that kind of context, but if we wanna talk about how it's a tragedy that these same sort of people will be so eager to go to war or about how awful some of the dialogue is? Totally.

[gcsmith]

The thing I find most stupid is how Thalyssra is against open war in Surumar, she wants to avoid it if she can, and then the first thing she wants to do after joining the horde is 'explore' her new enemies territory. If that isn't code for, "I wanna kill people" I dunno what is. Which kinda makes Tyrande right in worrying about her future motives.

Also Tyrande is completely right in the end. Thalyrssra does betray the alliances' help in surumar.