Used to be For the Alliance; can't handle Anduin

[Deleted]

Maybe it's because I've been around since Anduin was a little prick baby-king, but I just can't take him or the Alliance seriously now. The most recent cinematic showed perfectly the difference between the Horde and the Alliance.

Horde-side, you've got Sylvanas: Psychotic-but-brooding badass who taps into dark power - possibly for her own sake, possibly for her people's, who knows? - and who is absolutely unafraid to unleash hell on her enemies.

Alliance-side, Anduin: Teary-eyed man-child who is so afraid of death that his "big moment" is a mass heal (resurrection?).

It's like the Alliance is screaming, "War is wrong! Killing is evil! We stand for Truth and Justice and Captainnnnnn PLANET" while the other side goes "FOR THE FKING HORDEEEEEEEEEEEE" - it's just lopsided storytelling, if you ask me. Varian was such a breath of fresh air. Everything about him, from his armor to his voice to his death, was gritty and adult and just... epic. He was a knight, basically, ready to fling steel and bleed for his people. Anduin? It's like we barely fucking convinced him that any fighting at all is ever justified.

I dunno. I hope BFA has some moments where the Alliance actually throws down, otherwise it's going to be hard to sell me on the "epic war" theme.

You seem very insecure and to be projecting a lot of those insecurities and imagined things onto a fantasy character that doesn't really display these things. If adult is what you want, you shouldn't be playing the PG12 game World of Warcraft

[Elba]

Maybe it's because I've been around since Anduin was a little prick baby-king, but I just can't take him or the Alliance seriously now. The most recent cinematic showed perfectly the difference between the Horde and the Alliance.

Horde-side, you've got Sylvanas: Psychotic-but-brooding badass who taps into dark power - possibly for her own sake, possibly for her people's, who knows? - and who is absolutely unafraid to unleash hell on her enemies.

Alliance-side, Anduin: Teary-eyed man-child who is so afraid of death that his "big moment" is a mass heal (resurrection?).

It's like the Alliance is screaming, "War is wrong! Killing is evil! We stand for Truth and Justice and Captainnnnnn PLANET" while the other side goes "FOR THE FKING HORDEEEEEEEEEEEE" - it's just lopsided storytelling, if you ask me. Varian was such a breath of fresh air. Everything about him, from his armor to his voice to his death, was gritty and adult and just... epic. He was a knight, basically, ready to fling steel and bleed for his people. Anduin? It's like we barely fucking convinced him that any fighting at all is ever justified.

I dunno. I hope BFA has some moments where the Alliance actually throws down, otherwise it's going to be hard to sell me on the "epic war" theme.

So you prefer a homicidal psycho who would sacrifice every single one of her allies at a moments notice to a leader who deeply and truly cares about his people and actually seeks to make the world better for them? You do you.

[Zarc]

The Alliance was ruined back in MoP when Blizzard pulled High King out of their asses. Anduin is just a continuation of Blizzard's inability to understand what an alliance is.

A military alliance, not a political union. That is what the Alliance is. Blizzard understands this. Do you? Assuming you says yes, we're all on the same page there.

High King is the title of the commander of the of the forces available to that military alliance. It is not the title of a monarch with political control. I assume that you didn't know this. So the issue is not with Blizzard not understanding what an alliance is, but rather with you not knowing what the High King is.

Despite criticism, Zarhym has said that the position of High King thematically fits the Alliance, because "the Alliance formed an allegiance around human kingdoms." According to Dave Kosak's twitter, "Much like the "Warchief" of the Horde, the High King is trying to coordinate the actions of all the races in the Alliance." Chris Metzen and Dave Kosak later clarified that it was about military control similar to Anduin Lothar's position as Supreme Allied Commander, not about faction-wide political control. Metzen also confirmed that the High King only has control over the forces given to him, and leaders who don't like his calls can choose not to commit their forces.

[Shadowbane]

What's wrong with a mass heal? If you get into the head of an Alliance soldier in that cinematic, having the prince himself have your back with his healing powers is probably going to boost your morale immensely. The difference in how Sylvanas inspires that morale for the Horde is appropriate too - taking to the frontlines and personally breaking the siege by destroying the tower rekindles the Horde's hopes of winning.

Additionally, seeing him cry when he called down the light reminded me of what Uther told Arthas when he became a paladin.

"Lad, no one feels ready. No one feels that he deserves it. And you know why? Because no one does. It is grace, pure and simple. We are inherently unworthy, simply because we are human, and all human beings--aye, and elves, and dwarves, and all the other races--are flawed.
But the Light loves us anyway. It loves us for what we sometimes can rise to in rare moments. It loves us for what we can do to help others. And it loves us because we can help it share its message by striving daily to be worthy, even though we understand that we cannot ever truly become so."

Think about that, and how Anduin is trying to fill Varian's shoes in that moment - and has been trying to in all the moments before and still to come, and I think it couldn't be more fitting.

[Dagoth Ur]

I like Anduin. Would just prefer to see him go through some obstacles on his way to learning how to be good an just king. So far it's all too perfect and easy for him which is kinda hard to swallow considering his age and inexperience. But his reign has just started and we have yet to see what BfA has in store for him.

[Nihilux]

I thought Anduin was fine in the cinematic, I had a harder time being sold on Sylvanas (hopefully her being clever and manipulative).

I would love if Anduin over the course of the expansion turns into a Holy Paladin (because he's functionally one in the trailer) or even a Prot Paladin. Would love having a paladin faction leader again, too many priests.

[Wyrt]

A military alliance, not a political union. That is what the Alliance is. Blizzard understands this. Do you? Assuming you says yes, we're all on the same page there.

High King is the title of the commander of the of the forces available to that military alliance. It is not the title of a monarch with political control. I assume that you didn't know this. So the issue is not with Blizzard not understanding what an alliance is, but rather with you not knowing what the High King is.

Why is it hereditary? Why does High King make political decisions like peace deals or letting in new faction members?

It's definitely not just a military position.

[Deleted]

I've not ever been a fan of Anduin. Don't get me wrong... he's probably going to be a better King. But I feel like the BfA cinematic was the first time I've ever seen a glimpse of Anduin fighting. I get it. He's empathetic. He's progressive. But the games called Warcraft... maybe slap a fool once in a while.

[Zarc]

Why is it hereditary? Why does High King make political decisions like peace deals or letting in new faction members?

It's definitely not just a military position.

Because peace deals has to do with ending the wars that the military commander is in charge of. Sure that may not be a military commander thing, but I never said he was only that, but it is his main responsibility. Surely they make themselves pretty clear in that quote I just provided. He is a military commander, some parts of the foreign policy portfolio of its members has been pooled in the hands of him also, he has a mandate to admit new members to the Alliance because he is in charge of that alliance, with it being those things I just mentioned. But it is not a political union in the sense that he has any power over taxes or law enforcement in Ironforge. His mandate his given to him by the members of the Alliance, not imposed upon the members by him. It's members can walk away whenever they like, or choose not to commit forces to the Alliance. As the single biggest component part of the Alliance, Stormwind have probobly insisted that the King of Stormwind should also be the High King. Thus whoever is King of Stormwind ex officio becomes the High King, not because the position of High King is hereditary, but because the position of King of Stormwind is. The King of Stormwind is the title of a monarch, but the High King of the Alliance is not a monarchial title, it is the equivalent of the Horde's Warchief. He is not a monarch, he is not a head of state or head of government in his capacity as High King. This is not a theory, they have explicitly given us this information.

[Wyrt]

Because peace deals has to do with ending the wars that the military commander is in charge of. Sure that may not be a military commander thing in a narrow sense of the idea, but surely they make themselves pretty clear in that quote I just provided. He is not a monarch, he is not a head of state or head of government. He is a military commander, some parts of the foreign policy portfolio of its members has been pooled in the hands of him also, he has a mandate to admit new members to the Alliance because he is in charge of that alliance, with it being those things I just mentioned. But it is not a political union in the sense that he has any power over taxes or law enforcement in Ironforge. His mandate his given to him by the members of the Alliance, not imposed upon the members by him. It's members can walk away whenever they like, or choose not to commit forces to the Alliance. As the single biggest component part of the Alliance, Stormwind have probobly insisted that the King of Stormwind should also be the High King. Thus whoever is King of Stormwind ex officio becomes the High King, not because the position of High King is hereditary, but because the position of King of Stormwind is. The King of Stormwind is the title of a monarch, but the High King of the Alliance is not a monarchial title, it is the equivalent of the Horde's Warchief. This is not a theory, they have explicitly given us this information.

If it's always with the king of Stormwind then it is hereditary.

Peace deals fall outside of the purview of a military commander. As does admitting other nations into an alliance. Those are both political decisions, not military ones. It is clearly, and demonstrably, not just a military position.

So no, it's not equivalent to Warchief. If that was Blizzard's intent then they have failed incredibly hard at it because they have shown us something different.

[Zarc]

If it's always with the king of Stormwind then it is hereditary.

Peace deals fall outside of the purview of a military commander. As does admitting other nations into an alliance. Those are both political decisions, not military ones. It is clearly, and demonstrably, not just a military position.

So no, it's not equivalent to Warchief. If that was Blizzard's intent then they have failed incredibly hard at it because they have shown us something different.

By being King of Stormwind he is ex officio High King of the Alliance. The position of King of Stormwind is hereditary. That doesn't make the High King office hereditary, it makes it depend on being King of Stormwind. If they changed the laws in the Kingdom of Stormwind to make King an elected position whoever is elected King would be ex officio High King of the Alliance all the same. Much like the President of France is ex-officio Co-Prince of Andorra, as was the Kings of France before by virtue of holding the office of head of state of France.

Never said he was only a military commander. His responsibility is also to do peace deals and admit members to strengthen the alliance.

Equivalent doesn't mean exactly the same. The Chancellor of Germany is the equivalent of the Prime Minister of Canada, doesn't mean they have the exact same powers, responsibilities, functions, restrictions or rules surrounding their positions. High King and Warchief are equivalent. Abundantly clear.

[Kardagh]

I can't return to my Horde roots until Plotarmorys Windrunner is put 6 feet in the ground permanently. The Horde needs to be lead by someone who isn't a genocidal maniac who wants to ultimately turn everyone into mindless undead slaves.

Try telling the 14 year old boys who love staring at her boobs though. She's done worse than Garrosh ever did yet she gets off because "lol muh fanbase, muh fanservice". Horde shouldn't functionally be working at this point. The Alliance get space ships, they get a few creaky Zandalari warships. It's basically the British Empire vs the Native Americans at this point.

Anduin on the other hand has shown great progress and character development over the course of MoP and then Legion. Sylvanas? Still permanently stuck in brooding "I need to stave off the inevitable end" phase.

#AnduinIsMyKing

[Wyrt]

By being King of Stormwind he is ex officio High King of the Alliance. The position of King of Stormwind is hereditary. That doesn't make the High King office hereditary, it makes it depend on being King of Stormwind. If they changed the laws in the Kingdom of Stormwind to make King an elected position whoever is elected King would be ex officio High King of the Alliance all the same. Much like the President of France is ex-officio Co-Prince of Andorra, as was the Kings of France before by virtue of holding the office of head of state of France.

Never said he was only a military commander. His responsibility is also to do peace deals and admit members to strengthen the alliance.

Equivalent doesn't mean exactly the same. The Chancellor of Germany is the equivalent of the Prime Minister of Canada, doesn't mean they have the exact same powers, responsibilities, functions, restrictions or rules surrounding their positions. High King and Warchief are equivalent. Abundantly clear.

So, it's not just a military position and High King can make political decisions on behalf of other members? Tell me more about how this isn't a hereditary monarch ruling over other nations.

[Wildberry]

I can't return to my Horde roots until Plotarmorys Windrunner is put 6 feet in the ground permanently. The Horde needs to be lead by someone who isn't a genocidal maniac who wants to ultimately turn everyone into mindless undead slaves.

Funny how you talk about Horde roots, but there's an implied condemnation of Garrosh in your post. He is your roots. Either way, have fun with that limp-wristed boy king. Sylvanas isn't great, but at least she's not Anduin or Beg'jin,

[Kardagh]

Funny how you talk about Horde roots, but there's an implied condemnation of Garrosh in your post. He is your roots. Either way, have fun with that limp-wristed boy king. Sylvanas isn't great, but at least she's not Anduin or Beg'jin,

(Point)----->

Your Head.

Garrosh did nothing wrong, Only Orcs should lead the Horde. it's the natural order of things. Horde is at it's weakest because Vol'jin got his loincloth in a twist because Garrosh wanted to make the Horde great again.

Now it's lead by the worst possible person.

So I'll take great pride ripping into it until it gets a proper leader (Hey Saurfang).

[Wildberry]

(Point)----->

Your Head.

Garrosh did nothing wrong, Only Orcs should lead the Horde. it's the natural order of things. Horde is at it's weakest because Vol'jin got his loincloth in a twist because Garrosh wanted to make the Horde great again.

Now it's lead by the worst possible person.

So I'll take great pride ripping into it until it gets a proper leader (Hey Saurfang).

"She's done worse than Garrosh ever did" has a pretty strong implication that Garrosh has done things wrong. Regardless, she's far better than Beg'jin. Not ideal, but better than Beg'jin, and honestly even Go'el.

[Kardagh]

"She's done worse than Garrosh ever did" has a pretty strong implication that Garrosh has done things wrong. Regardless, she's far better than Beg'jin. Not ideal, but better than Beg'jin, and honestly even Go'el.

All Garrosh did, he did for the Horde.

Sylvanas treats everything as "arrows in her quiver". All she cares about is staving off the hell that's waiting for her when she pops her clogs again.

Garrosh also did not make pacts with ancient evil Sea Witches (who also allied with the Legion), nor did he use biological weapons on civilians (Theramore is a legitimate military target), when innocents were attacked (Stonetalon Mountains) he personally intervened to execute the one responsible for the atrocity. Sylvanas actions in Stormheim don't sit well with her own people (as Before the Storm mentions) as many don't want to see more people forced into the state of Undeath. Lets not forget she's abducted members of Neutral organisations to experiment on (Argent Crusade) and openly attacked others (Kirin Tor) who were not even involved in her conflict.

"Oh but the Sha corrupted Garrosh" Actually Blizzard have went on record to say he was using -it- as a weapon. It's very clear during the 5.1 storyline he wants the Horde to MASTER the Sha and use it like any other weapon. The Alliance gladly accept Warlocks and Fel magic so what's the problem using the power of negative emotion?

Sure he has flaws, thats what made Garrosh a -great- warchief and character, but it seems the fans want undead boobies and evil edge mistress who's about as three dimensional as a cardboard cutout. Or they want goodie tooshoes who can't do wrong, who isn't actually an Orc but a green human.

[Katie45]

Finally someone who really understands garrosh

[Khirok]

I would follow Anduin to the gates of hell. He is kind, empathic, and fights for his people. He will also smack a bitch if need be, but that isn't all he does.

[Dimad]

Anduin has taken great steps over the course of the expansion. However i think greymane and jaina to an extent will feed on his naiveity. How he will deal with this is going to ultimately decide which route he will lead the alliance. I'm hopeing that he will stick to his beliefs.