So Alliance lost the Nightborne beacuse Tyrande was a dick?

[Doffen]

She has the idea of joining the horde but first she wants to see what the horde is like before, that's why she says that she is admired for the courage and good leadership of Lorthemar and how she maintains the idividuality and cultira intact within the horde.

Lets say she brushed off the alliance as option before she went to the visit then. Can't deny that. Honestly she only had one chance after that conversation.

[Beloren]

All elves are xenophobic. The Kal'dorei are xenophobic, yes. But what about the High/Blood Elves? They only took notice of humans when they needed them to protect their precious Quel'thalas. Then, during the Second War, Lothar had to remind Anasterian his oath to the Arathor, and he grudgingly accepted to help. When the war was over, the High Elves quickly locked themselves behind their magical gates once again and withdraw from the Alliance. The Nightborne, we see in Legion, are just as bad.

Being haughty and xenophobic is probably the only trait "uniting" the different elven cultures...

Even tho I’m 100% an elf fan. It is hypocritical for any of them to call the other haughty or proud. Laughable really

[Shakou]

All elves are xenophobic. The Kal'dorei are xenophobic, yes. But what about the High/Blood Elves? They only took notice of humans when they needed them to protect their precious Quel'thalas. Then, during the Second War, Lothar had to remind Anasterian his oath to the Arathor, and he grudgingly accepted to help. When the war was over, the High Elves quickly locked themselves behind their magical gates once again and withdraw from the Alliance. The Nightborne, we see in Legion, are just as bad.

Being haughty and xenophobic is probably the only trait "uniting" the different elven cultures...

Patently false. The High Elves of Quel'thalas might have carried that trait with them early on, but definitely lost it after dealing with Garithos. They've come a long way since then and joining the Horde, and so did the Nightborne in Legion. In fact it was literally highlighted in the Suramar questline.

Maybe pay attention next time you play the game?

Playable Night Elves are just plain xenophobic and always have been and have never learned from their past mistakes. I mean ya all Elves tend to be arrogant but the Blood Elves and Nightborne specifically are not Xenophobic and distrusting of other races.

The Blood Elves went from fighting trolls all the time to allying closely with them. The Nightborne went from being from a race who thought they were more powerful than any on Azeroth to finding their place in the world again and needing the help of outsiders to save their people.

The Night Elves? I mean frankly I don't care because in game they have always 100% been poorly written.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway why do elves have to be stuck in this foolish conflict anyway. I thought they were supposed to be smart AND wise. But they come off as really foolish like a teenager is foolish even tho he can be very clever

This is a classic staple of the Elf fantasy trope, going back to Tolkien. They are supposed to be these older than time wise beings, and yet they fail at basic things and come off as incapable of empathy, unfriendly, and arrogant know-it-alls. Ultimately a lot of the ills in the world of any story like this are actually caused by these supposed high and might oh-so-wise elves.

[Rhlor]

Lets say she brushed off the alliance as option before she went to the visit then. Can't deny that. Honestly she only had one chance after that conversation.

the alliance was not an option but the decision to join the horde took it after meeting lorthemar

[Frontenac]

Patently false. The High Elves of Quel'thalas might have carried that trait with them early on, but definitely lost it after dealing with Garithos. They've come a long way since then and joining the Horde, and so did the Nightborne in Legion. In fact it was literally highlighted in the Suramar questline.

Maybe pay attention next time you play the game?

Playable Night Elves are just plain xenophobic and always have been and have never learned from their past mistakes.

Patently false. The Night Elves have joined the Alliance since the end of the Third War and the loss of their immortality. They play an active role everywhere and have even accepted the highborne back in their society. Maybe pay attention next time you play the game?

I can be a prick too...

Yes, yes, they all have changed, but haughtiness and pride are still present in all elven races, and it doesn't need much to get it back.

[Doffen]

the alliance was not an option but the decision to join the horde took it after meeting lorthemar

Oh that was decided at once Tyrande said those words really. Thalryssa must have hold a grudge towards Tyrande since then. It hit her hard it seems. The story is weak and it really shines through the whole thing that blizz didn't really have a good reason. Just gameplay.

[Frontenac]

Oh that was decided at once Tyrande said those words really. Thalryssa must have hold a grudge towards Tyrande since then. It hit her hard it seems. The story is weak and it really shines through the whole thing that blizz didn't really have a good reason. Just gameplay.

It could have been so easy to give a good reason for Thalyssra to join the Horde. Like, have Tyrande or some others in the Alliance do something in Suramar, something concrete, like meddling in internal affairs, encroaching in what the Nightborne could consider their territory, spying, etc.

[Steampunkette]

It could have been so easy to give a good reason for Thalyssra to join the Horde. Like, have Tyrande or some others in the Alliance do something in Suramar, something concrete, like meddling in internal affairs, encroaching in what the Nightborne could consider their territory, etc.

But there you have the Alliance being dicks, or at the very least -super- inconsiderate. It doesn't follow their motivations at all.

A much -much- better way to handle it would've been to have Tyrande -know- Thalyssra, Valtrois, Silgryn, or Oculeth and have some ancient disagreement spark up again, after all those years. Maybe Thalyssra was Tyrande's superior within Suramar and used her position to bully the younger or less socially powerful elf before changing over 10,000 years of being grounded. Or Tyrande spoke out against Arcane Magic back then and had a heated rivalry with Thalyssra over it and even now, after -everything-, Thalyssra's insistence on wielding the arcane as a core tenet of Nightborn Society in the wake of how much misery? Is a serious issue that leads to an argument about the very -foundations- of Kal'dorei and Shal'dorei society to help drive a wedge...

That would've been good, because it could've touched on a somewhat touchy topic with Tyrande that we've had small pieces of through her characterization, and also reinforce just how much the Shal'dorei are stubborn and set in their mystical ways.

[Zorish]

But Thalryssa and the Nightborne was a part of that just as much as Tyrande and her Night Elves! Back then they were all Night Elves! The playable race Night Elf just have the name. Blood Elves, High Elves, Night Elves and Nightborne were all the same before! Thalryssa and her Nightborne is just as guilty as Tyrande and her sort of Night Elves, if not even more(slightly).

And yes they just recently accepted Mages as Night Elf. For good reasons.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shen%27dralar read dialog on highborne return and say again that they were accepted "for good reasons"
and tell my what this "part of the NE as Tyrande when Tyrande (and i am sure that she wasn't alone) just showed what she think about Arcane users, and her "brethren".

[Rhlor]

Oh that was decided at once Tyrande said those words really. Thalryssa must have hold a grudge towards Tyrande since then. It hit her hard it seems. The story is weak and it really shines through the whole thing that blizz didn't really have a good reason. Just gameplay.

Yes, it's gameplay. even so the real reason to join the horde is her visit to quelthalas

[Doffen]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shen%27dralar read dialog on highborne return and say again that they were accepted "for good reasons"

For good reasons they weren't accepted until recently of course. So yeah, I'm saying that again.

"You show some nerve coming to Teldrassil, Highborne. Your kind are unwelcome here. We have not forgotten the War of the Ancients or the minds behind it."

I must say I dont really get what you mean. There is a reason why they didn't have any mages. A good reason at that.

[Frontenac]

But there you have the Alliance being dicks, or at the very least -super- inconsiderate. It doesn't follow their motivations at all.

A much -much- better way to handle it would've been to have Tyrande -know- Thalyssra, Valtrois, Silgryn, or Oculeth and have some ancient disagreement spark up again, after all those years. Maybe Thalyssra was Tyrande's superior within Suramar and used her position to bully the younger or less socially powerful elf before changing over 10,000 years of being grounded. Or Tyrande spoke out against Arcane Magic back then and had a heated rivalry with Thalyssra over it and even now, after -everything-, Thalyssra's insistence on wielding the arcane as a core tenet of Nightborn Society in the wake of how much misery? Is a serious issue that leads to an argument about the very -foundations- of Kal'dorei and Shal'dorei society to help drive a wedge...

That would've been good, because it could've touched on a somewhat touchy topic with Tyrande that we've had small pieces of through her characterization, and also reinforce just how much the Shal'dorei are stubborn and set in their mystical ways.

Well, one does not prevent the other. I spoke about meddling in internal affairs. Tyrande could have tried to gain some leverage in Suramar, preaching against magic as she did against Talyssra back then (as you propose), maybe even trying to rekindle their faith in Elune. Afterall, Tyrande is from Suramar, the Sisterhood was strong there, and some Nightborne may even have been her friends before the War of the Ancients. She may have created an anti-arcane faction, or one who would want to reduce the use of magic and rejoin with the Kaldorei. Talyssra may not agree with that anti-magic and religious sentiment, and take that as meddling in her own turf, pushing her in the arms of the pro-magic Blood Elves and the Horde.

[Steampunkette]

Well, one does not prevent the other. I spoke about meddling in internal affairs. Tyrande could have tried to gain some leverage in Suramar, preaching against magic as she did against Talyssra back then (as you propose), maybe even trying to rekindle their faith in Elune. Afterall, Tyrande is from Suramar, the Sisterhood was strong there, and some Nightborne may even have been her friends before the War of the Ancients. She may have created an anti-arcane faction, or one who would want to reduce the use of magic and rejoin with the Kaldorei. Talyssra may not agree with that anti-magic and religious sentiment, and take that as meddling in her own turf, pushing her in the arms of the pro-magic Blood Elves and the Horde.

True!

It would've been a -vastly- better story for the Nightborn than what we're getting, no matter how it was brought about.

[Doffen]

Well, one does not prevent the other. I spoke about meddling in internal affairs. Tyrande could have tried to gain some leverage in Suramar, preaching against magic as she did against Talyssra back then (as you propose), maybe even trying to rekindle their faith in Elune. Afterall, Tyrande is from Suramar, the Sisterhood was strong there, and some Nightborne may even have been her friends before the War of the Ancients. She may have created an anti-arcane faction, or one who would want to reduce the use of magic and rejoin with the Kaldorei. Talyssra may not agree with that anti-magic and religious sentiment, and take that as meddling in her own turf, pushing her in the arms of the pro-magic Blood Elves and the Horde.

You should work for blizz. That would work well.

[Steampunkette]

I come up with the idea in the first place but he's the one who should work for Blizzard?

*grumble, grumble*

[Traveler Voltin]

i see the alliance player miss the point again.
from that questline it seems less of "tyrande is mean" and more of
In the horde, the nightbourne can keep their idenity.
In the alliance they would just become human cheerleaders and lose who they are.

- - - Updated - - -

i see the alliance player miss the point again.
from that questline it seems less of "tyrande is mean" and more of
In the horde, the nightbourne can keep their idenity.
In the alliance they would just become human cheerleaders and lose who they are.

[gcsmith]

so you think only tyrande words done this? okay - let's remember quest... where you must remove provocative items from army capm... DO YOU REALLY think that ONLY "oh so blessed by Elune Tyrande" guilty for this fail? WRONG! big part of NE army helped that without even thinking about it. I think oldest of NE remember Sundering and Exile of Highborne very well. And some "young" elves just show their mistrust to both BE and NB. Tyrande was just last nail in the coffin. (or maybe coffin it'self )

You mean the quests where you find out both factions did it and some were done by Elisandre's guards disguised as faction members?

[Zorish]

You mean the quests where you find out both factions did it and some were done by Elisandre's guards disguised as faction members?

Elisandre guards just sparked it to fights.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Trolling_Them#Horde
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Some...ot_Quite_Right...
pranks part was mostly by NE and BE factions.

[Doffen]

I come up with the idea in the first place but he's the one who should work for Blizzard?

*grumble, grumble*

Fine, both then. He was the lowest one the page, okay?? And besides how he writes to you sounded like something else but if you wrote the same thing, you are both good!
Edit: Seems you wrote it as something that happened before. He wrote the scenario at present day(I might be wrong) Both did better than blizz anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

i see the alliance player miss the point again.
from that questline it seems less of "tyrande is mean" and more of
In the horde, the nightbourne can keep their idenity.
In the alliance they would just become human cheerleaders and lose who they are.

- - - Updated - - -

i see the alliance player miss the point again.
from that questline it seems less of "tyrande is mean" and more of
In the horde, the nightbourne can keep their idenity.
In the alliance they would just become human cheerleaders and lose who they are.

Or the Horde player ignores the fact she decided before she even step foot in Silvermoon.

Update: Or the Horde player ignores the fact she decided before she even step foot in Silvermoon.

It's how the perspective is I guess. I play both sides so who cares. But don't say the transition to the Horde was good. It wasn't. It was weak and forced. Did you even read the datamined stuff? She says it flat out that she didn't want in the Alliance because Tyrande said some "mean" things. Its all right there.

[Florida Man]

For people with addiction problems, going to AA can be much more beneficial than hanging with family, especially if your family members are going to judge you for it.