[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Deleted]

I honestly thought EP VI was horrible. Turning Rey evil would be an absolute saver for the franchise, but I don't really see them taking any risks. To good to be true

[Fayolynn]

Are people still complaining about Rey being overpowered in a setting in which a ten years old piloted a starfighter without training, a young adult flew another starfighter with minimal training against the Death Star and in which ''a legion of my best troops'' were mauled by teddy bears ?

Just because a mistake was made previously doesn't make it okay to make the same mistake again. Of the 3 things you mentioned Luke flying an X-wing was not really issue. His family owned a ship made by the same company with the same controls that he flew constantly. Endor wouldn't have been an issue if they had just used Wookies as originally intended. Dat 10 year old though... so much cringe.

[sarahtasher]

Just because a mistake was made previously doesn't make it okay to make the same mistake again. Of the 3 things you mentioned Luke flying an X-wing was not really issue. His family owned a ship made by the same company with the same controls that he flew constantly. Endor wouldn't have been an issue if they had just used Wookies as originally intended. Dat 10 year old though... so much cringe.

The explanation about Luke flying an Skyhopper was built both from the toy Luke play with in ANH and the need to explain those skills (its quite canon, mind you, but it's another issue that was a plot hole) Still, in modern day parlance, that would be like someone ''I can fly a F-16, I have a car'

[fakaroonie]

My only reason for going to the movie is: Luke screentime, + finding Snoke's identity.

What if he's Vader physical form left, and what we saw was Anakin's jedi ghost force. That would be nutsy. We know Anakin's body was special due to midichlorians and being made by Plagueis. He has the same scars, and we keep seeing Vader's mask everywhere sooo. Maybe.

[Fayolynn]

The explanation about Luke flying an Skyhopper was built both from the toy Luke play with in ANH and the need to explain those skills (its quite canon, mind you, but it's another issue that was a plot hole) Still, in modern day parlance, that would be like someone ''I can fly a F-16, I have a car'

More like I can drive a Mustang because I own a Focus. Same basic kind of vehicle, same controls one is just higher end then the others.

[Kellorion]

Honestly Daisy is too fucking adorable and sweet to pull off a villian/Sith. Not to reduce her down to her looks, but I just can't see it. She's the girl next door not the Sith next door. I can see her being tempted like Luke was in 5 and 6.

[sarahtasher]

More like I can drive a Mustang because I own a Focus. Same basic kind of vehicle, same controls one is just higher end then the others.

No, one is a civilian aircar (better than a car, still) and the other is a top of the line combat spacecraft

People falling into the cockpit of warmachines and being living gods with them is a very common trope in anime/SF. You just have to roll with it. But if Luke can pilot a X-Wing, Finn (trained soldier/pilot) and Rey (who earn her living looting ships) can pilot the Falcon.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is almost like this is a movie and not reality. I mean people can also call objects to there hands, choke people with their minds, and throw lightning from there fingers.

People tend to pick things up kinda quickly in most movies. Rarely do you have the movie stop and then go into a 14 month training cycle to understand basic flight school, then 12 months of gunnery school, then followed up by small no action missions for 6 months. Then a few small action to mild action missions for a year. Then finally going up against the Death Star. Kinda breaks the pace of the movie.

[minteK917]

It is almost like this is a movie and not reality. I mean people can also call objects to there hands, choke people with their minds, and throw lightning from there fingers.

People tend to pick things up kinda quickly in most movies. Rarely do you have the movie stop and then go into a 14 month training cycle to understand basic flight school, then 12 months of gunnery school, then followed up by small no action missions for 6 months. Then a few small action to mild action missions for a year. Then finally going up against the Death Star. Kinda breaks the pace of the movie.

Nah man i need to see them go to the bathroom too.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Nah man i need to see them go to the bathroom too.

You are right. Never in one of these movies did we see someone take a piss. I mean seriously? How many years can they hold it in this universe. Bullshit movie for sure

[RobertoCarlos]

It is almost like this is a movie and not reality. I mean people can also call objects to there hands, choke people with their minds, and throw lightning from there fingers.

People tend to pick things up kinda quickly in most movies. Rarely do you have the movie stop and then go into a 14 month training cycle to understand basic flight school, then 12 months of gunnery school, then followed up by small no action missions for 6 months. Then a few small action to mild action missions for a year. Then finally going up against the Death Star. Kinda breaks the pace of the movie.

Yeah its called bad writing. And it breaks immersion these kind of theater tricks. Also there's no harm in asking for the universe you are watching to have consistent rules. You cant just fly stuff because it's a movie. That breaks immersion and enjoyment levels

[eschatological]

She regularly flew stuff, just not off-planet. And the writing very strongly suggested she has a hidden skillset that has been literally wiped from her memory.

It's not bad writing because you can't pay attention to the movie to things that don't hit you over the head.

The problem I have with the current generation of movie-goers is that their attention is always divided, ESPECIALLY at home or watching (legal or illegal) streams of things. Watching a movie on a second monitor barely counts as watching it, and it makes arguments about the story not being there fall flat.

The new Bladerunner movie supports this theory of mine. Brilliant, genius movie - that is bombing everywhere because people can't think 5 feet past their own face.

[RobertoCarlos]

She regularly flew stuff, just not off-planet. And the writing very strongly suggested she has a hidden skillset that has been literally wiped from her memory.

It's not bad writing because you can't pay attention to the movie to things that don't hit you over the head.

The problem I have with the current generation of movie-goers is that their attention is always divided, ESPECIALLY at home or watching (legal or illegal) streams of things. Watching a movie on a second monitor barely counts as watching it, and it makes arguments about the story not being there fall flat.

The new Bladerunner movie supports this theory of mine. Brilliant, genius movie - that is bombing everywhere because people can't think 5 feet past their own face.

So because people had a problem with Rey being OP its because they werent paying attention and were watching the movie on a 2nd monitor?

I believe you call that reaching for a point when you don't have one.

"the writing very strongly suggested she has a hidden skillset that has been literally wiped from her memory" So shes Jason Bourne now? Her history is a mystery yes, that doesnt mean you remember how a battleship works just because in the past you could drive one. Shes just discovering her skills as she starts to learn about the force...so if she was trained in everything as a kid then had her memory wiped which I find unlikely but willing to concede that could be a possibility it still doesn't make sense you can remember the technical requirements of the task, You may have muscle memory but that doesnt mean you know where the hyperdrive button is. but until that is proven its rather pointless discussion anyway.

I know girls like seeing other girls doing well on the big screen but you dont need to get so personal over a fictional character and try dismiss me as a distracted viewer playing video games. Im not the only one in the Rey is a mary sue camp. Its quite a thing among viewers and quite often the first criticism of the film along with the a new hope remake aspects.

And bladerunner bombed because its high concept art in a busy period of other films and ryan gosling has never been a commercial hit except la la land.

"current generation" of movie goers...please. Probably seen triple the amount of films you have and older films you've never heard of.

[eschatological]

-snip-

The whole movie is filled with clips of her flashing back to 1) being put on Jakku on purpose, 2) being at Luke's Jedi Academy, 3) somehow tapping into Luke/Vader's own memories, 4) having a strong aversion to recollecting those memories, as if she is either suffering from PTSD or was purposefully brain-wiped. She spends the first half of the movie almost-brainwashed into insisting she has to go home to Jakku to wait for her family (a very strong suggestion which has been planted in her mind), and stay home. She's outright stated that she mods ships for funsies, on top of flying around the planet. She knows the Millenium Falcon because she's modded it herself.

I'm not a girl, btw. I'm just someone who watches a lot of movies, without distraction. I just watched the movie, and picked up on all these pieces of evidence, IN THE FILM, that suggests Rey isn't a Mary Sue (by the standard definition of "not having a reason" to be so powerful), and I'm tired of still hearing it 2 years later. But because no one ever outright says "Hey, you seem to be repressing latent memories and skills, what do you remember before you came to Jakku?" these points fly over most of the "Rey=Mary Sue" camp's collective heads. So my conclusion has to be, after 2 years, that people are either 1) ignoring the evidence to push an agenda, or 2) didn't notice the evidence because they're not attentive for some reason. I assume the latter because it gives people the benefit of the doubt.

[RobertoCarlos]

The whole movie is filled with clips of her flashing back to 1) being put on Jakku on purpose, 2) being at Luke's Jedi Academy, 3) somehow tapping into Luke/Vader's own memories, 4) having a strong aversion to recollecting those memories, as if she is either suffering from PTSD or was purposefully brain-wiped. She spends the first half of the movie almost-brainwashed into insisting she has to go home to Jakku to wait for her family (a very strong suggestion which has been planted in her mind), and stay home. She's outright stated that she mods ships for funsies, on top of flying around the planet. She knows the Millenium Falcon because she's modded it herself.

I'm not a girl, btw. I'm just someone who watches a lot of movies, without distraction. I just watched the movie, and picked up on all these pieces of evidence, IN THE FILM, that suggests Rey isn't a Mary Sue (by the standard definition of "not having a reason" to be so powerful), and I'm tired of still hearing it 2 years later. But because no one ever outright says "Hey, you seem to be repressing latent memories and skills, what do you remember before you came to Jakku?" these points fly over most of the "Rey=Mary Sue" camp's collective heads. So my conclusion has to be, after 2 years, that people are either 1) ignoring the evidence to push an agenda, or 2) didn't notice the evidence because they're not attentive for some reason. I assume the latter because it gives people the benefit of the doubt.

The selective amnesia twist didnt work in Jason Bourne and its not gonna work in Star wars. Even with a potential sith lord brain washing you to forget your skills and past it doesnt make sense.

Sure if you were a sprinter back in the day and someone wipes your memory it makes sense you could be still be pretty fast if you decided to run 100meters. How do you remember the specific technical requirements of a task like flying? If you wiped a surgeons memory would you trust them to perform open heart surgery on you? I wouldnt, even if 10 years ago before snoke got to him he was the best surgeon in the world.

And forget the flying, how about the fact she can instantly use a lightsaber with no training because "the force" even taking down an injured sith in the process.

All the characters instantly love her even characters like Han solo who dont trust people. Leia acts like her mother and ignores chewy.

Shes instantly an important member of the alliance and needs a special rescue operation to get her back.

She can learn how to mind bend stormtroopers in a matter of minutes with only a passing comment from Kylo Ren.

And shes so naturally strong with the force it scares canon characters like luke skywalker

yep...probably more if I really tried thinking about it

[Deleted]

(by the standard definition of "not having a reason" to be so powerful)

It do not feel particularly satisfactory to use "yes she can do all this stuff becuse she have a unknown/mysterious background"

The second is that she ARE to powerfull, can you think of anything that can challange here? Especially not after she gets real training?

[Fayolynn]

No, one is a civilian aircar (better than a car, still) and the other is a top of the line combat spacecraft

People falling into the cockpit of warmachines and being living gods with them is a very common trope in anime/SF. You just have to roll with it. But if Luke can pilot a X-Wing, Finn (trained soldier/pilot) and Rey (who earn her living looting ships) can pilot the Falcon.

The problem is Luke wasn't a living god in the X-wing (battle of Yavin). He almost crashed himself into the Death Star shooting at a gun implacement at the very start of the battle, almost got shot down by a generic tie fighter and then only survived against Vader due to the timely intervention of Han Solo. All this with him flying a civilian craft that gave him untold hours of experiance to help him fly a military craft with the same controls as what he was use to flying already. To compare that to Rey is ridiculous. Her experiance in taking apart ships in no one translates to her having the ability and practiced skill to fly anything. That's like saying the maintenance crew for an F35 has the training to fly the plane itself. Luke's skill are explicitly brought up multiple times through the movie and then he's still bad at it, he doesn't just suddenly fly like an ace.

[Jastall]

It is almost like this is a movie and not reality. I mean people can also call objects to there hands, choke people with their minds, and throw lightning from there fingers.

People tend to pick things up kinda quickly in most movies. Rarely do you have the movie stop and then go into a 14 month training cycle to understand basic flight school, then 12 months of gunnery school, then followed up by small no action missions for 6 months. Then a few small action to mild action missions for a year. Then finally going up against the Death Star. Kinda breaks the pace of the movie.

A 80's style Star Wars training montage would be pretty awesome come to think of it.

But yeah, I don't really buy that Rey is an outlier in terms of Star Wars protagonists. They're always been overpowered and special, the setting even has a plot device hand-crafted to justify it all. Why can they do that? da force, end of discussion, now stop worrying and look at those cool lightsabers and spaceships.

[RobertoCarlos]

But yeah, I don't really buy that Rey is an outlier in terms of Star Wars protagonists. They're always been overpowered and special, the setting even has a plot device hand-crafted to justify it all. Why can they do that? da force, end of discussion, now stop worrying and look at those cool lightsabers and spaceships.

Rey is already more powerful than anakin skywalker.

[sarahtasher]

The selective amnesia twist didnt work in Jason Bourne and its not gonna work in Star wars. Even with a potential sith lord brain washing you to forget your skills and past it doesnt make sense.

Sure if you were a sprinter back in the day and someone wipes your memory it makes sense you could be still be pretty fast if you decided to run 100meters. How do you remember the specific technical requirements of a task like flying? If you wiped a surgeons memory would you trust them to perform open heart surgery on you? I wouldnt, even if 10 years ago before snoke got to him he was the best surgeon in the world.

And forget the flying, how about the fact she can instantly use a lightsaber with no training because "the force" even taking down an injured sith in the process.

All the characters instantly love her even characters like Han solo who dont trust people. Leia acts like her mother and ignores chewy.

Shes instantly an important member of the alliance and needs a special rescue operation to get her back.

She can learn how to mind bend stormtroopers in a matter of minutes with only a passing comment from Kylo Ren.

And shes so naturally strong with the force it scares canon characters like luke skywalker

yep...probably more if I really tried thinking about it

Hey dude, the original movie have the Rebel Alliance taking for pilot for the do or die strike a farmboy that they don't know...