Antorus Progression Thread

[Micronetic]

I don't know how you guys feel about it but this must be the most boring World First Race like ever!

[Constellation]

I don't know how you guys feel about it but this must be the most boring World First Race like ever!

Every WF race has been boring cause you dont get to actually see it happening. It's all just waiting, its like watching the election of a new pope, watching that smoke, waiting for it to change color. ResidentFuckingSleeper.

Chinese guilds and other guilds just arriving at Argus isn't even going for the WF so its just like watching a regular guild struggle with progression.

[hellhamster]

I don't know how you guys feel about it but this must be the most boring World First Race like ever!

I donno I kinda enjoy the NA shitflinging.

[Cracked]

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Hotfixed, goes to 60% instead of 66.6%, so yes. it gos back to 60% after 40% And yes. they got it to 40%, it went back to 60%, then they got it to 41% again.

Really? So the overtuning was real, expect a kill soon if they already nerfed his hp.

[jdbond592]

Argus dead yet? What is taking them so long? Good god, scrubs need to L2P!

[BiggestNoob]

Lol, you didn't quit. You were kicked.

That's the lowest quality troll attempt I've seen in a while.

for the twitter illiterate.

Did Discord just embed that after deeply following a URL without proxying it, or did those people actually have to click the link? The Tweet says "Please be mindful about what you click".

Because they are. Every time this discussion comes up people don’t believe that you can make 50k playing WoW, by its very easy to do.

At the cost of how much of your time though? You have prep time of multiple characters for mythic sales, gearing and learning stuff to carry, general maintenance bullshit, and you'd lose substantial amounts of time if you get any bans like Limit did.

You'd also need someone or multiple people to put in effort finding buyers, so there's some fee or cut there, and advertising outside of official channels because it's against the ToS requires some kind of hosted service or running your own site, which then has its own costs. You also run the risk of literally anyone who pays you being able to report the sale to Blizzard, especially piloting, which seems like a good way a competing guild could just get a bunch of you banned. And if you make any substantial amount you need to report it as earnings for taxes.

It seems like an interesting thing to do when you have spare time for a little bit of cash if you don't mind the risk, but it seems high investment for fairly low reward, especially as a primary source of income.

[Deleted]

That's the lowest quality troll attempt I've seen in a while.



Did Discord just embed that after deeply following a URL without proxying it, or did those people actually have to click the link? The Tweet says "Please be mindful about what you click".



At the cost of how much of your time though? You have prep time of multiple characters for mythic sales, gearing and learning stuff to carry, general maintenance bullshit, and you'd lose substantial amounts of time if you get any bans like Limit did.

You'd also need someone or multiple people to put in effort finding buyers, so there's some fee or cut there, and advertising outside of official channels because it's against the ToS requires some kind of hosted service or running your own site, which then has its own costs. You also run the risk of literally anyone who pays you being able to report the sale to Blizzard, especially piloting, which seems like a good way a competing guild could just get a bunch of you banned. And if you make any substantial amount you need to report it as earnings for taxes.

It seems like an interesting thing to do when you have spare time for a little bit of cash if you don't mind the risk, but it seems high investment for fairly low reward, especially as a primary source of income.

50k a year is way above the average (probably triple the average) in any country.

[Millyraynge]

Stylewar is ahead. They got world 5th kill with Alpha getting world 7th.

alpha is stylewar

[Deleted]

At the cost of how much of your time though? You have prep time of multiple characters for mythic sales, gearing and learning stuff to carry, general maintenance bullshit, and you'd lose substantial amounts of time if you get any bans like Limit did.

You'd also need someone or multiple people to put in effort finding buyers, so there's some fee or cut there, and advertising outside of official channels because it's against the ToS requires some kind of hosted service or running your own site, which then has its own costs. You also run the risk of literally anyone who pays you being able to report the sale to Blizzard, especially piloting, which seems like a good way a competing guild could just get a bunch of you banned. And if you make any substantial amount you need to report it as earnings for taxes.

It seems like an interesting thing to do when you have spare time for a little bit of cash if you don't mind the risk, but it seems high investment for fairly low reward, especially as a primary source of income.

Depends on. On my first Argus HC kill in week one, the raidlead created a PUG and had two buyers in it. Creating a group and killing it took him probably 1 - 1,5 Hours. Price would be around 600k-800k. Lets say 1300k for 1,5 Hours. Thats roughly 60 bucks in reallife money? It's ok as a "sidejob", you can't do this for 8 hours straight, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year.

[Synstir]

I am curious. Can you explain *why* you would not find this positive? You only tell *that*, without really explaining it.

The very first thing I would wonder is: what does this person thinks, is missing in this resume that he/she thinks adding things from a game is called for.
The second thing is: why is he/she adding something I can't verify in something as important as a resume? Doesn't he/she understand I need to be able to verify?
Previous experience can be verified, a game is a different story.
3rd: Does this person really thinks leading a group of people in an online game, who pay to play and achieve the same things as all the others in the group, is the same as leading a group of people to achieve corporate set goals while their personal goals can be different?

In real life people don't have different max level chars to switch and optimize a scripted fight. You can't bench people and take someone else instead who fits the encounter better. You can't study 12 chars and make a group to fight a boss which you can study before hand or study as you go along. You have to do with what you have and you have to train people to be able to face what is coming. You have to look ahead and anticipate on what is coming and not on what has been programmed.

[SLSAMG]

This is exactly what I am doubting. I do not think for even 1 second there is a single person who actually manages an annual income like that just selling runs. I can see the potential for some people to maybe actually cut a decent income from doing that, but at the end of the day it's only possible to do so many runs and there's only so many people that will actually pay you cash for those services.

Another point not addressed here is that when you are making crazy amounts of cash doing that you are for sure on Blizzard's radar, so it can't last forever.

It's a niche market and not a very stable one. 50-70k sounds like a really absurdly great year doing that.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not doggin anyone for trying it. I'm just saying no person in here has actually made 70k a year doing this.

If that's their primary source of income then they're basically grinding it out every day. Not a healthy lifestyle to say the least. It would be nice if it was a secondary source of income but we all know that's not the case

In any case, these kids better be claiming taxes... There's no way they're raking in 50K tax free.

[Caprix]

Yeah, not saying guild leaders don't have to go through a lot of shit, but "I got real work management skills because i leaded a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly paying for playing the same game they enjoy on their free time", really?

[Cracked]

Yeah, not saying guild leaders don't have to go through a lot of shit, but "I got real work management skills because i leaded a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly paying for playing the same game they enjoy on their free time", really?

Wtf? How is it different from "I lead a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly slaving their lives off to make money in time that could otherwise be spent of doing stuff they enjoy"?

You have the exact same problems a manager has to deal with, different personalities clash, delegation, task division, you have to listen and be ready to help your guildmates, ... like, if you don't see parallels, then you either never dealt with anything guild-leadership related, or you never worked in any management position in real life.

[Deleted]

You have the exact same problems a manager has to deal with, different personalities clash, delegation, task division, you have to listen and be ready to help your guildmates, ... like, if you don't see parallels, then you either never dealt with anything guild-leadership related, or you never worked in any management position in real life.

And this only applies if you're really lucky and run into a recruiting decision maker who gives a shit and values this context. I mean it's the same thing as if you put into your CV that you're really good and experienced in organizing My Little Pony conferences, at this people any normal person will say NEXT in their mind unless this is specific to the job.

[Synstir]

Wtf? How is it different from "I lead a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly slaving their lives off to make money in time that could otherwise be spent of doing stuff they enjoy"?

You have the exact same problems a manager has to deal with, different personalities clash, delegation, task division, you have to listen and be ready to help your guildmates, ... like, if you don't see parallels, then you either never dealt with anything guild-leadership related, or you never worked in any management position in real life.

it is not the same. I wrote a post a bit above.

[Deleted]

Wtf? How is it different from "I lead a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly slaving their lives off to make money in time that could otherwise be spent of doing stuff they enjoy"?

You have the exact same problems a manager has to deal with, different personalities clash, delegation, task division, you have to listen and be ready to help your guildmates, ... like, if you don't see parallels, then you either never dealt with anything guild-leadership related, or you never worked in any management position in real life.

Only very roughly...If you think that leading a bunch of teens in a raid is similar to leading adults with families and owning P&L responsibility, then you need to grow up.

[Leonora]

The very first thing I would wonder is: what does this person thinks, is missing in this resume that he/she thinks adding things from a game is called for.
The second thing is: why is he/she adding something I can't verify in something as important as a resume? Doesn't he/she understand I need to be able to verify?
Previous experience can be verified, a game is a different story.
3rd: Does this person really thinks leading a group of people in an online game, who pay to play and achieve the same things as all the others in the group, is the same as leading a group of people to achieve corporate set goals while their personal goals can be different?

In real life people don't have different max level chars to switch and optimize a scripted fight. You can't bench people and take someone else instead who fits the encounter better. You can't study 12 chars and make a group to fight a boss which you can study before hand or study as you go along. You have to do with what you have and you have to train people to be able to face what is coming. You have to look ahead and anticipate on what is coming and not on what has been programmed.

Thank you for responding.
Obviously, guild management is not tranferred one-on-one to real life management, and nobody claimed different. But imo, your respons fits my expectation of prejudice. As to your points:
1. Well, management experience? If someone claims to have been chair(wo)man of the local market, or any other organisation irl, would you count it as positive?
2. Verifying - you can make a character ingame, ask members of that guild? There are sites like wowprogress and www.warcraftrealms.com/charhistory.php that allows you to track presence. If someone claims leadership of the local birdwatching club, how do you verify, and what is different about that? In the end you always have to ask someone if this person was any good. No difference here. And the longer the better - guildleader for 10 years and a guild that still is alive and managing goals is clearly doing it better than a group of 1 year.
3. No, and nobody here claims that. I myself compare it to leading a voluntary group of people. As a company you have people who have to behave according to a contract; as a voluntary group you have to work with people that have to turn up every time because they feel they should. Guilds have goals, just like companies; guilds can have gaps (healer quits); do we recruit or teach internally (I have done both). You have to motivate; you have to listen; you have conflict resolution; you have confronting people without seeing them quit (or sometimes, 'firing' them - and I can assure you, when someone is in your guild for years, that can be very hard on them).
On point 3 it also comes down to whether you have been (succesfull) guildleader yourself.

You apply your ideas, if guild management does not fit your idea of good management, then obviously you wont count this experience. I have seen this kind of discussions in the past, I was curious if anything changed in perception. I see that (based on your words alone ) - prejudice is still alive. So be it .

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it is not the same. I wrote a post a bit above.

For clarity: So you have been guildleader for a while, managed with your guild fine, and experience that the skills you needed for guildleading did not translate to management irl?

[Dangg]

Regardless if the skills transfer or not the issue is that most managers are normies or women and are freaked out my MMORPGs

They will think you are a weird creeper who will potentially harass them if you spend hour per day playing games like that

[Caprix]

Wtf? How is it different from "I lead a bunch of same-minded people with the same objectives willingly slaving their lives off to make money in time that could otherwise be spent of doing stuff they enjoy"?

Well that's easy, its different because in most companies people are not same-minded, don't have the same objectives and are not willingly slaving their lives for money (they think they have to and sometimes it's true)?


Come on, what's the main point that is required (directly or between the lines) for applicants in all serious guilds? "YOU DON'T NEED TO BE MANAGED". Self-explanatory isn't it? IRL it's "YOU ARE MANAGEABLE". Subtle difference.

RL skills and experiences can transfer to video-games, but the other way around seems pretty rare.

[Synstir]

Thank you for responding.
Obviously, guild management is not tranferred one-on-one to real life management, and nobody claimed different. But imo, your respons fits my expectation of prejudice. As to your points:
1. Well, management experience? If someone claims to have been chair(wo)man of the local market, or any other organisation irl, would you count it as positive?
2. Verifying - you can make a character ingame, ask members of that guild? There are sites like wowprogress and www.warcraftrealms.com/charhistory.php that allows you to track presence. If someone claims leadership of the local birdwatching club, how do you verify, and what is different about that? In the end you always have to ask someone if this person was any good. No difference here. And the longer the better - guildleader for 10 years and a guild that still is alive and managing goals is clearly doing it better than a group of 1 year.
3. No, and nobody here claims that. I myself compare it to leading a voluntary group of people. As a company you have people who have to behave according to a contract; as a voluntary group you have to work with people that have to turn up every time because they feel they should. Guilds have goals, just like companies; guilds can have gaps (healer quits); do we recruit or teach internally (I have done both). You have to motivate; you have to listen; you have conflict resolution; you have confronting people without seeing them quit (or sometimes, 'firing' them - and I can assure you, when someone is in your guild for years, that can be very hard on them).
On point 3 it also comes down to whether you have been (succesfull) guildleader yourself.

You apply your ideas, if guild management does not fit your idea of good management, then obviously you wont count this experience. I have seen this kind of discussions in the past, I was curious if anything changed in perception. I see that (based on your words alone ) - prejudice is still alive. So be it .

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For clarity: So you have been guildleader for a while, managed with your guild fine, and experience that the skills you needed for guildleading did not translate to management irl?

Let's agree to disagree then.

And another thing is: In the 10+ years that I am having a role in which I decide who becomes part of my teams, I never received a resume with anything games related.
But if I would, that one normally, would not be considered; dependant on it's other points off course.

I would not make an account to verify this. Any IRL thing, I can verify as you can find out if person is real or not.
For online games, there is just no way.
What do I do on call? Ask if I am talking to a Warlock from the guild "so and so", named Daemonia? And then ask about management skills of their guild leader, a Paladin named "Valorpal"? I don't think so.

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For clarity: So you have been guildleader for a while, managed with your guild fine, and experience that the skills you needed for guildleading did not translate to management irl?

No, I have not been a guild leader and I don't need to be.
I am deciding which candidate I will hire, that's all and that's is what I am commenting on.

Writing this I am starting to wonder if the other way around goes also?

Do you do both?
Do you have that experience?