Ketogenic diet

[Xirrohon]

I would also take into account what kind of activities that you like to do. I mainly do calisthenic and HIIT workouts and when I tried keto I couldnt finish my workouts, felt terrible, no power and was quickly out of breath. I think if youre into weightlifting (not powerlifting) and doing slow steady state cardio, you might benefit from doing keto.

Also, like the other poster said, if youre going to do keto you should be testing to make sure that youre staying in ketosis. Just keeping your carbs low doesnt necessarily mean youre in ketosis.

[unbound]

Hello guys

I would like to talk about the keto diet. I have lost weight doing it and it is probably the best diet in my opinion because of how it naturally suppresses a person's appetite. Can't lose weight without eating less calories of course!

But the thing is people are still opposed to a diet that is high fat. There are people out there that have made this their way of eating as well and are perfectly healthy. Yet some refuse to accept it. Or most of the world actually.

What is your opinion on this diet and fat in general? Should we still stick to the low fat idea?

There is nothing wrong with the diet or fat in general. Most importantly, you should be eating few refined foods (which is where the real health problems tend to come from).

Similarly, there isn't anything wrong with a low fat diet provided you follow the same guideline (eating few refined foods).

The problem with any diet is eating lots of refined foods ultimately causes problems...typically weight gain and increasingly diabetes.

There is nothing wrong with a bowl of cereal or some bread or some pasta...but when you are getting most of your calories from those sources, that is when you run into problems. Many people don't realize that if you eat that big bowl of cereal in the morning, that sub sandwich which is far more bread than anything else, and a big pasta dinner...you haven't eaten any better than if you sucked down a cup or so of sugar instead for each of those meals. That slice of tomato in your sandwich ain't cutting it for being healthy. And most people are eating cookies and candy off and on throughout the day on top of it...so 75% or more of their calories are coming from highly refined (i.e. micro-nutritionally deficient) food.

Thus our nation has gotten fatter and higher rates of diabetes.

Well worth the read - https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ig-john-yudkin

The newer dietary scientists are figuring out that most fats are not our problem...but it will take another generation to get the old ideas out of public opinion. It will also take people thinking a bit deeper about the problem to come around as well...for some reason, people think that the meat industry has more influence than the corporate farming industry despite the fact that the corporate farming industry completely dwarfs the meat industry. Highly refined wheat and corn have massively better margins than the meat industry could even dream of.

[Schmittay]

Also, like the other poster said, if youre going to do keto you should be testing to make sure that youre staying in ketosis. Just keeping your carbs low doesnt necessarily mean youre in ketosis.

Yep, a lot of artificial sweeteners spike your insulin just like actual sugar does and will knock you out of ketosis, so if you're still guzzling them sugar free drinks, best see what kind is in there and see it's effect on insulin. I think sugar alcohols are pretty good but pretty sure one of the most used, aspartame, or sweeteners 955, 952, 954 and 950 is a big no no.

[Altrec]

Yep, a lot of artificial sweeteners spike your insulin just like actual sugar does and will knock you out of ketosis, so if you're still guzzling them sugar free drinks, best see what kind is in there and see it's effect on insulin. I think sugar alcohols are pretty good but pretty sure one of the most used, aspartame, or sweeteners 955, 952, 954 and 950 is a big no no.

That seems to be more of an individual thing. Artificial sweeteners of any kind don't seem to have any impact on me (or at least it doesn't kick me out of ketosis), but I know it does for others. Artificial sweeteners are just one of those strange things that probably shouldn't exist.

[Immitis]

I have had success with ketogenic dieting and intermittent fasting. I got to around 9% body fat without losing any muscle and strength on it last year.

The problem is that I've also done this and put on more muscle while on a prototypical bodybuilder diet which is high carb, high protein, low fat. The logic behind keto and fasting is that you deplete your glycogen stores when you don't eat carbs for a certain period of time and your body burns fat instead of carbs as a result. The science behind it seems solid but I don't know how true that really is or how effective that makes it compared to a regular diet.

Nutrition is the only scientific discipline I've ever seen where there is so little agreement on anything. Everyone used to say carbs were important but now keto is big and people get good results on it. Everyone used to say high animal protein was important but now vegans and vegetarians say it isn't (I think they are full of shit because they cherry pick evidence to fit their ideology).

Diets that have completely different foods and macros seem to produce good results in different people. I would say try different diets and find one that works for you.

thats because corporations fucked us over to push more sugar on us



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I ate around 20g carbs a day to get into ketosis and checked it with a test several times during the week. I did the diet for like 2 months and then I reached my desired body fat percentage. But it was hard for me. I really often had times where I had problems to concentrate, even though I did my refeeds properly.

keto strips and other tests are bullshit dont waste money on them.

if you're in ketosis you'll be using ketones thus there will be less in your pee because you're actually using them.

if you're staying under 20g carbs a day you'll enter ketosis whether you "feel" it or not. too many people think being in ketosis is some super different feeling but its not. ive had longterm fasts of 30 days multiple times and my body is so fat adapted that i can pretty much eat up to 50 carbs and maintain ketosis (though i usually eat 12 - 18)

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Yep, a lot of artificial sweeteners spike your insulin just like actual sugar does and will knock you out of ketosis, so if you're still guzzling them sugar free drinks, best see what kind is in there and see it's effect on insulin. I think sugar alcohols are pretty good but pretty sure one of the most used, aspartame, or sweeteners 955, 952, 954 and 950 is a big no no.

it depends on the person. some artificial sweeteners affect people differently but people should try to cut them out as much as possible.

from what ive seen erythritol seems to be the one that affects people the least.

some artifical sweeteners also mess with peoples hormones and cause inflammation in the joints. i only use artificial sweeteners for special occasions

[Rainer]

Hello guys


What is your opinion on this diet and fat in general? Should we still stick to the low fat idea?

The term "diet" usually implies that it is not a lifestyle, but a temporary way to lose weight (usually to return to your former shape/size). I have a good friend that has been on the Keto diet for months, and he has lost weight, he feels great, and his skin looks better, etc...

The main idea, in my opinion, with any diet is to watch what you are putting into your body, and not losing control of that. Whether it be weight watchers, atkins, keto, etc etc... you can, and will have success if you just stick to one and be committed to it.

I am usually at 9-11% body fat, but do not follow any particular diet; instead, educate yourself on what works, how it works, and why it works and you can create your own meal plan for yourself.
Then, make good choices about the calories you eat. If you eat grilled chicken, fruit, veggies, seafood, etc... and minimal simple carbs, I guarantee you will lose weight.

But hey, if a diet works for you, then do it brother

[pkm]

Yep, a lot of artificial sweeteners spike your insulin just like actual sugar does and will knock you out of ketosis, so if you're still guzzling them sugar free drinks, best see what kind is in there and see it's effect on insulin. I think sugar alcohols are pretty good but pretty sure one of the most used, aspartame, or sweeteners 955, 952, 954 and 950 is a big no no.

This is false

Carbohydrates are what puts you out of ketosis, not sweeteners. If you are finding that you are going out of ketosis then you are sneaking in hidden carbs from somewhere.

[Witchblade77]

when you say diet. do you mean "a way of eating for the rest of your life" or do you mean" this thing i go on temporarily to lose weight" ? because if its option two? its bullshit. all of those temporary diets are bullshit. why? because by their nature they are unsustainable and the moment you go off them, you gain all the weight you lost with a bit of extra - back.

the only thing that works and continues to work, THE ONLY thing - regardless of what the precise combo of food you end up with - is a way of eating you adopt for the rest of your life. P.S. there is no single way of eating that fits everyone the same way. as bullshit as you think "be yourself" equivalent of eating sounds? its true. our bodies are not identical, so the same thing that makes one person feel great can also be the thing that makes another person feel awful. you literally DO need to find what works for you, specifically.

[Xirrohon]

(though i usually eat 12 - 18)

That sounds like a terrible life to live, but if it works for you. Carry on my man!

[Immitis]

That sounds like a terrible life to live, but if it works for you. Carry on my man!

not really, i was never a sweets guy so the only carbs i miss are potatoes. i missed bread and noodles at first until i realized i was simply using bread and noodles as fillers/vehicles and theres plenty of keto versions of bread i could choose from if i REALLY wanted a sandwich, for noodles i really like shirataki noodles which are hit and miss with some people but i love them.

9 times out of 10 what i usually eat is 2 - 3 chicken leg quarters, however many veggies i can fit into my stomach and still meet my carb limit (broccoli, spinnach, collard greens, and green beans are usually my go to with the occasional cauliflower rice) with butter and sometimes heavy whipping cream all thrown in one pot and slow cooked in the oven at 270 for 3 - 9 hours

it tastes fucking amazing.

since i was always a meat and veggies guy like i said, pretty much the only thing i had to cut out was potatoes bread and noodles.

and the only cheat days with carbs i ever have is with alcohol at social events and not food (alcohol metabolizes like carbs so even the sugar free kinds like rum and vodka should be treated like carbs tbh) so i eat within my carb limit and then drink to whatever the hell makes me feel good but thats fine for me since im a social drinker.

i only drink if others are drinking which is maybe once every couple months, otherwise i just use weed.

i also do omad which means the vast majority of the time im not even eating and when i do eat its a huge fucking pot of food thats enough for all 3 of my meals. i try to lift weights and work out 4 times a week as well.

my energy and my health have never been better then when i started fasting and doing keto

[Xirrohon]

This thread has already existed three times on this forum. Please stop necroing it

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Keto is a fad diet. Like any diet it has benefits and drawbacks. The most important thing for weight loss is cutting calories and sticking to a routine plan. Beyond that it comes down to entirely subjective personal choice.

The real question is. Have you responded every time its been necroed?

[pkm]

This thread has already existed three times on this forum. Please stop necroing it

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Keto is a fad diet. Like any diet it has benefits and drawbacks. The most important thing for weight loss is cutting calories and sticking to a routine plan. Beyond that it comes down to entirely subjective personal choice.

No, keto is not a fad diet. A fad diet is something like the juice diet. Keto can be considered a way of eating, or a diet. Just depends on what the individual wants or needs.

[Immitis]

This thread has already existed three times on this forum. Please stop necroing it

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Keto is a fad diet. Like any diet it has benefits and drawbacks. The most important thing for weight loss is cutting calories and sticking to a routine plan. Beyond that it comes down to entirely subjective personal choice.

lol wot? keto has existed for literal decades its not a fad diet lol

"In 1921, Rollin Woodyatt reviewed the research on diet and diabetes. He reported that three water-soluble compounds, β-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate and acetone (known collectively as ketone bodies), were produced by the liver in otherwise healthy people when they were starved or if they consumed a very low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet. Russel Wilder, at the Mayo Clinic, built on this research and coined the term ketogenic diet to describe a diet that produced a high level of ketone bodies in the blood (ketonemia) through an excess of fat and lack of carbohydrate. Wilder hoped to obtain the benefits of fasting in a dietary therapy that could be maintained indefinitely. His trial on a few epilepsy patients in 1921 was the first use of the ketogenic diet as a treatment for epilepsy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet#History

[xezar]

Until a diet allows for regular consumption of soda (and not diet soda), I ain’t gonna bother.

That being said a former coworker had pretty good success with this keto stuff, so eh guess it works. But as I like my bread and shit, I’ll keep my lard ass for now.

[Talsar]

Keep a regular caloric deficit and you will lose weight. 100% guaranteed. The higher the deficit, the faster the weight will come off (To a point. Avoid starving yourself). Most diets are just different ways of keeping this deficit while remaining healthy, though personally i prefer not to pay someone for something i can do myself with a free meal tracking app and/or some common sense.

It's important to note that if you live a very inactive lifestyle then your calorie usage will be low and as such you will have to have a much lower calorie intake to maintain a deficit. If you still want to eat nice food or treat yourself (occasionally) then add some exercise into your life (It has proven mental health benefits too so it's a win/win ).

The only other advice i have is never cheat. If you've decided to eat something "bad" (read: high calorie) then so be it, but track that consumption so you know how much over your calorie goal you are and can make up for it in coming days. Your body doesn't know that it's "cheat day".

[Immitis]

Keep a regular caloric deficit and you will lose weight. 100% guaranteed. The higher the deficit, the faster the weight will come off (To a point. Avoid starving yourself). Most diets are just different ways of keeping this deficit while remaining healthy, though personally i prefer not to pay someone for something i can do myself with a free meal tracking app and/or some common sense.

It's important to note that if you live a very inactive lifestyle then your calorie usage will be low and as such you will have to have a much lower calorie intake to maintain a deficit. If you still want to eat nice food or treat yourself (occasionally) then add some exercise into your life (It has proven mental health benefits too so it's a win/win ).

The only other advice i have is never cheat. If you've decided to eat something "bad" (read: high calorie) then so be it, but track that consumption so you know how much over your calorie goal you are and can make up for it in coming days. Your body doesn't know that it's "cheat day".

i fast for atleast 2 days after any cheat days. also, even without exercise the ketogenic diet outperforms the sad diet when it comes to losing/maintaining weight.

"A group of 30 adults, previously diagnosed with MetS by their primary care physician, were randomly prescribed to one of three groups: a sustained ketogenic diet with no exercise, standard American diet (SAD) with no exercise or SAD with 3-5 days per week of exercise (30 min.). The results demonstrated that the change over time from week 0 to week 10 was significant (p = 0.001) in the ketogenic group for weight, body fat percentage, BMI, HgA1c and ketones. All variables for the ketogenic group out-performed those of the exercise and non-exercise groups, with five of the seven demonstrating statistical significance."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...137?via%3Dihub

calories in and calories out are ultimately what is most important yes, but foods high in fat are also more filling and thus you end up eating less.

ive continued to grow in strength with my lifting and my body fat percentage and overall health is the best its ever been and ive been fasting and doing keto for awhile now

[belfpala]

Until a diet allows for regular consumption of soda (and not diet soda), I ain’t gonna bother.

That being said a former coworker had pretty good success with this keto stuff, so eh guess it works. But as I like my bread and shit, I’ll keep my lard ass for now.

Why? Why do you want completely useless calories?

Anyway, I live on a middle ground. I don't put myself into ketosis, but I do intentionally limit my carbs to no more than 45 grams per meal, preferably 30. That's less than one cup (240ml) of rice, two small tortillas, or one large one, or two slices of pizza.

And back to the question, why? Would I rather have that can of Coke, or would I rather have two slices of pizza?

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but foods high in fat are also more filling and thus you end up eating less.

Not really. I can eat an entire package of bacon. I'm more likely to stop if I put a few slices on a BLT or butty.

[Immitis]

also another thing to add, is that you DO NOT want to eat at a caloric deficit for long periods of time since this will overall lower your metabolism and if you ever "quit" your diet/deficit you will gain the weight back even faster and at a much larger amount than before.

fasting prevents your metabolism from being lowered because your body takes everything it needs from itself in terms of caloric tdee

however it should be noted that people shouldnt fast if they dont know how to maintain their electrolytes.

when i fast i take a magnesium supplement, i take (throughout the day, not all at once) 4000mg of potassium in the form of no salt, and a handful of sea salt for sodium and i also drink AT LEAST 2 liters of water

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Not really. I can eat an entire package of bacon. I'm more likely to stop if I put a few slices on a BLT or butty.

thats because you arent fat adapted and your body is still craving carbs. if you cut the carbs out you would still get cravings for carbs and the general keto flu until your body is adapted for it. the same way a car wont run well if you put in a fuel its not used to/built for.

the opposite also happens. one time a waitress accidentally gave me regular soda and i didnt realize it until after i drank it and i felt like shit the rest of the night until i got over it

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[belfpala]

when i fast i take a magnesium supplement, i take (throughout the day, not all at once) 4000mg of potassium in the form of no salt, and a handful of sea salt for sodium and i also drink AT LEAST 2 liters of water

Are you doing the gigantic pills? Or the version that pretends to be an orange drink but could probably kill an elephant with its terribleness? Just curious. I've tried both. One time I needed the IV version, which was more pleasant, other than being in the hospital for several days.

thats because you arent fat adapted and your body is still craving carbs. if you cut the carbs out you would still get cravings for carbs and the general keto flu until your body is adapted for it. the same way a car wont run well if you put in a fuel its not used to/built for.

the opposite also happens. one time a waitress accidentally gave me regular soda and i didnt realize it until after i drank it and i felt like shit the rest of the night until i got over it

First, you assume I'm trying to lose weight. I don't need to. It's not my concern. My concern is keeping a proper balance of my macros, which to me is what my friend introduced to me as his "diabetic diet." It's very high in protein, which is prioritized. Carbs are minimized but not excluded. Dark greens are encouraged. I'd actually recommend this "diet" for anyone, but people here seem to have a problem with that word.

Second, I stopped ordering soda at restaurants for that reason unless it comes in a can/bottle. Even I've made the mistake of hooking up the bag-in-box to the wrong line, and I don't know how many diabetics I've killed/almost killed.

[Immitis]

Are you doing the gigantic pills? Or the version that pretends to be an orange drink but could probably kill an elephant with its terribleness? Just curious. I've tried both. One time I needed the IV version, which was more pleasant, other than being in the hospital for several days.



First, you assume I'm trying to lose weight. I don't need to. It's not my concern. My concern is keeping a proper balance of my macros, which to me is what my friend introduced to me as his "diabetic diet." It's very high in protein, which is prioritized. Carbs are minimized but not excluded. Dark greens are encouraged. I'd actually recommend this "diet" for anyone, but people here seem to have a problem with that word.

Second, I stopped ordering soda at restaurants for that reason unless it comes in a can/bottle. Even I've made the mistake of hooking up the bag-in-box to the wrong line, and I don't know how many diabetics I've killed/almost killed.

i wasnt assuming you needed to lose weight. i mostly use keto to maintain/gain weight (keto gainz yo!) while lifting weights and i fast for growth hormone/autophagy

i pour some in a water bottle/black coffee and just drink it. tastes a little funky sure but it keeps me from getting headaches or feeling icky during my fasts. also when fasting you enjoy simply tasting something at all tbh.

dont eat for 10 days and anything tastes good, sense of smell is also super strong. when fasting i can immediately smell if anyone is cooking anything in my house or has food no matter what room im in and nomatter how little food it is