Net neutrality gone

[Gray_Matter]

Which is why we have courts, and even more importantly, competition. You act as though it's a zero sum game and ISPs cannot be replaced, bought out, competed with or sued. The internet has continued to grow and access has increased apace since it's inception. If any one of these companies makes use of their bandwitdth so restrictive as to make the product unpalatable, their customers will leave them.

Now, if you'd like to complain about ISPs getting into bed with local governments and restricting access to their markets by other providers, I'm 100% with you. That is a seperate problem though.

Ignoring the massive costs to setup an ISP, those changes if they ever were to occur would take 10+ years. In the mean time, the ISP's will run roughshod over people's rights.

[Mafic]

This isn't a left or right issue.

Even Dim son understood the purpose of net neutrality.

[Allenseiei]

With the amount of resources they have the U.S should easily become the best country to live but they don't even have politicians willing to try.

Well, I hope welfare is not the way you are hoping the government to make it the best country to live, because what you do with that is make everyone poor. While countries like Norway its easy to maintain high taxes because the population is very homogeneous, high resources and very few people living there, countries like the US have it hard to redistribute wealth because the population is huge, very polarized in values, education and work ethics.

On topic, I dont think (or I want to think) that the IPS will do anything drastic, but I think prices might go up depending on how they treat services like Netflix, youtube or other high bandwith usage websites.

[CostinR]

So I'd like to know. What has he changed the rules to? Cause he couldn't have just rolled the rules back to the pre-2015 rules as in the 2010 rules because courts blocked those.

[Oakshana]

I too am not happy with the repeal of Net Neutrality, but that copy/paste is good ol' fashioned fake news. Net Neutrality was put in place in 2015, so all of those examples of the telecom companies not being able to do something happened under the exact situation we're in now.

All of the things in that list are the reasons Net Neutrality was put into effect in the first place. That was my point.

Net Neutrality was not put "into place" in 2015. It existed long before that. The FCC made attempts between 2005 & 2010 to enforce NN. There were many cases against major carriers over this time. I can certainly cite some of them for you if you like. In 2010 the FCC finally put the Open Internet Order in place which prevented cable companies from restricting access to certain sites because it conflicted with their own services.

Then in 2014, the courts determined the FCC should have no jurisdiction over this. That's when the Obama administration stepped in and enforced the Net Neutrality laws and rules. Everything below are actual violations and attempts to circumvent NN. It's not fake news.

2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.
https://www.cnet.com/news/telco-agre...ng-voip-calls/

2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ng-settlement/

2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones.
https://www.wired.com/2009/10/iphone-att-skype/

2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except youtube. (edit: they actually sued the FCC over this)
http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/01...you-pay-extra/

2011-2013, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google Wallet because it competed with their bullshit. edit: this one happened literally months after the trio were busted collaborating with Google to block apps from the android marketplace
http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/06/tech...llet/index.htm

2012, Verizon was demanding google block tethering apps on android because it let owners avoid their $20 tethering fee. This was despite guaranteeing they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction. (edit: they were fined $1.25million over this)
http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/31/tech...apps/index.htm

2012, AT&T - tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.
https://www.theverge.com/2012/9/18/3...net-neutrality

2013, Verizon literally stated that the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers over other providers were the net neutrality rules in place.
https://www.savetheinternet.com/blog...break-internet

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So I'd like to know. What has he changed the rules to? Cause he couldn't have just rolled the rules back to the pre-2015 rules as in the 2010 rules because courts blocked those.

He hasn't changed anything yet. Now that their own vote has passed in favor, they'll have to take it to the courts to get it reversed. Still every chance that the repeal could be blocked.

[Gray_Matter]

If I'm wrong in two years, feel free to necro this thread and laugh at me. I'll concede.

The problem is that by then it will be too late.

[Super Kami Dende]

There's a term for people who have to clean up the messes of Republicans.

Democrats.

And Vice-Versa. It's why the Sides change every so often. Mostly because 1 side becomes arrogant enough to think only the other causes fuck ups.

[Zython]

And Vice-Versa. It's why the Sides change every so often. Mostly because 1 side becomes arrogant enough to think only the other causes fuck ups.

Yeah, gotta stop the madness of not having your internet throttled.

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Well, I hope welfare is not the way you are hoping the government to make it the best country to live, because what you do with that is make everyone poor. While countries like Norway its easy to maintain high taxes because the population is very homogeneous, high resources and very few people living there, countries like the US have it hard to redistribute wealth because the population is huge, very polarized in values, education and work ethics.

On topic, I dont think (or I want to think) that the IPS will do anything drastic, but I think prices might go up depending on how they treat services like Netflix, youtube or other high bandwith usage websites.

I don't see what the issue is. The people with the poorest values and work ethics are the ones with the most money. Seems like it solves itself.

[Gray_Matter]

All 5 of the board members that voted on this were appointed by Obama, The only thing that Trump did was promote Ajit Pai to chairman.

Obama didn't appoint all 5. The president is only allowed to appoint 3 of his own choice (from his party). The opposition political party provides the names for the other 2. Tom Wheeler was Obama's choice and he is no longer there. Trump appointed Carr and moved Pai to the chairman.

[Stonecloak]

And the noose gets tighter. They’re not even vague about it anymore. Its just you’re going to take it, and like it attitude. I don’t think I’ve seen something so one sided completely ignored for the sake of greed. I think it’s a slippery slope form here on if this decision stays. The internet 3-5 years from now will be run by big corps.

[gyrados]

lol good over reacting good job so u mean internet will go back to pre2015 i mean the internet existed then right?? its gonna be ok just calm down

[Super Kami Dende]

Yeah, gotta stop the madness of not having your internet throttled.

Funnily enough considering I've seen most of the people that get referred to as Republicans or Conservatives etc etc on This websites and others that are intently against repealing Net Neutrality and many People on the other side supporting it being removed. I very much can say Net Neutrality is not a partisan issue.

[Stonecloak]

lol good over reacting good job so u mean internet will go back to pre2015 i mean the internet existed then right?? its gonna be ok just calm down

Unfortunately this is exactly how they want people to think. The idea is to nudge people into the idea that this is fine. It’s a political tactic.

[SLSAMG]

Well people are so pissed they are making veiled treats against Pai like I "I might forget how to drive my car when I see Pai cross the street" and the like.

People didn't do shit when Trump was elected. These same people aren't going to do a god damn thing if this passes.

I'll admit it though, I'd love to see Pai get hurt real bad even though it wouldn't accomplish anything. Something about his smugness... The guy has his own head so far up his ass that god damn lump in his throat is his nose...

[Gray_Matter]

What people don't get about net neutrality is that there is a massive difference between the abstract principle and how the legislation actually works: It works in favour of maintaining monopolies and against consumer interests. Damn good job the Federal Communications Commission voted as it did.

Please explain to me why the telecoms industry was lobbying so much to remove it if it was keeping their monopolies in place?

[bowchikabow]

Y'all are worried about the ISP's when the FCC has said they will still be regulating and monitoring them. Meanwhile, actual content aggregation and how/what content is being highlighted/accepted is being manipulated or scrubbed. "but muh netflix speeds bruh!"

Google manipulating results in search: http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-w...results-2015-6

Youtube (part of google) censoring content: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yo...rticle/2604384

Google had requested utility status: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-goo...-be-a-utility/

I don't want internet or internet content providers to have the protection of the government to do as they please without regulation and competition. The fact that all of this is and was happening during NN speaks volumes.

Also, don't forget that googles AI is incapable of deciphering what real news is. Popularity of an article is literally one of the first categories the algorithm follows. Hence why reddit troll articles were continually popping up. Also, there is a decidedly bias tint to Google, Facebook, YouTube.. and a host of other sites. Stunt and clickbait sites like Verge, salon etc.. rely on net neutrality so they can get the same space and influence as more legit sites. The proliferation of internet content that serves no objective other than to confuse and obfuscate information and then claim freedom to do so, while enjoying the "free and uncapped internet" is disgusting. Regardless of what side it falls on or from. All of this has been happening DURING NN. These things are far more pernicious and destructive than the potential for ISPs to make fast lanes.

[Gray_Matter]

Ayyy, somebody who gets why I want legislation not regulation

Unfortunately legislation requires 60 votes in the senate. The dynamics of the US makes it very unlikely for the senate to have 60 democrats so this sort of legislation will not happen in a hurry.

[Stonecloak]

Y'all are worried about the ISP's when the FCC has said they will still be regulating and monitoring them. Meanwhile, actual content aggregation and how/what content is being highlighted/accepted is being manipulated or scrubbed. "but muh netflix speeds bruh!"

Google manipulating results in search: http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-w...results-2015-6

Youtube (part of google) censoring content: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yo...rticle/2604384

Google had requested utility status: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-goo...-be-a-utility/

I don't want internet or internet content providers to have the protection of the government to do as they please without regulation and competition. The fact that all of this is and was happening during NN speaks volumes.

Also, don't forget that googles AI is incapable of deciphering what real news is. Popularity of an article is literally one of the first categories the algorithm follows. Hence why reddit troll articles were continually popping up. Also, there is a decidedly bias tint to Google, Facebook, YouTube.. and a host of other sites. Stunt and clickbait sites like Verge, salon etc.. rely on net neutrality so they can get the same space and influence as more legit sites. The proliferation of internet content that serves no objective other than to confuse and obfuscate information and then claim freedom to do so, while enjoying the "free and uncapped internet" is disgusting. Regardless of what side it falls on or from. All of this has been happening DURING NN. These things are far more pernicious and destructive than the potential for ISPs to make fast lanes.

So, you actually think we lost neutrality because of this, and not the potential for bigger profits? Sorry man, going to have to disagree with that.

[Wyrt]

Y'all are worried about the ISP's when the FCC has said they will still be regulating and monitoring them. Meanwhile, actual content aggregation and how/what content is being highlighted/accepted is being manipulated or scrubbed. "but muh netflix speeds bruh!"

Google manipulating results in search: http://www.businessinsider.com/tim-w...results-2015-6

Youtube (part of google) censoring content: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yo...rticle/2604384

Google had requested utility status: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-goo...-be-a-utility/

I don't want internet or internet content providers to have the protection of the government to do as they please without regulation and competition. The fact that all of this is and was happening during NN speaks volumes.

Also, don't forget that googles AI is incapable of deciphering what real news is. Popularity of an article is literally one of the first categories the algorithm follows. Hence why reddit troll articles were continually popping up. Also, there is a decidedly bias tint to Google, Facebook, YouTube.. and a host of other sites. Stunt and clickbait sites like Verge, salon etc.. rely on net neutrality so they can get the same space and influence as more legit sites. The proliferation of internet content that serves no objective other than to confuse and obfuscate information and then claim freedom to do so, while enjoying the "free and uncapped internet" is disgusting. Regardless of what side it falls on or from. All of this has been happening DURING NN. These things are far more pernicious and destructive than the potential for ISPs to make fast lanes.

But under Net Neutrality you could use a different search engine or a different video site and those would have the same access and speeds as Google and YouTube. We don't have choices for ISPs, but we could have choices for videos and searches.

You think a little conservative video site can compete with YouTube if the ISPs start throttling them? YouTube can absolutely pay whatever fee the ISPs want, but could a new coming competitor? Would people use that site if it required video buffering every few seconds?

And let's not forget that the ISPs own a lot of the media like CNN and MSNBC. What's to stop them from slowing down other news sites to favor the news they own?

[-Nurot]

Doing away with them entirely would be the best solution. Profits that are made in the healthcare field that aren't put directly back into medicine are squandered profits.

Oh I agree completely, but unfortunately Republicans aren't there yet even if the American people are. Somehow they keep getting half the country to vote against their best interests in a partisan fight where everyone is losing. Hopefully either Republicans wake up on healthcare, or the Dems win back the majority and try to do it the right way this time. Maybe afterwards they can craft an even better Net Neutrality bill.