[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[UChess]

This is probably the worst aspect of the film, the plot is a swiss cheese of contrivances used to set up the character moments they want. Contrivances are a normal part of this kind of fantasy film but in this case I felt like there were way too many, some were forgiveable but others were downright egregious, and in the end it became so overloaded with them that it tripped on its own feet. I'm not going to go into it because then I'd be here for hours, but let me just point out one glaring one I noticed even in the theatre - if Poe, Finn and Rose had decided to do absolutely nothing, sit on the ship and wait then the outcome would've been either better or worst case scenario, the same. Their entire plot threads in this movie were not merely pointless but downright counterproductive.

How is this a plot hole?

[Mormolyce]

How is this a plot hole?

I didn't say it was a plot hole, what I said is that it's a series of ridiculous contrivances that build up to the point that they undermine the entire plot thread.

[Zeta333]

Also it is sad how much power Kathleen Kennedy holds over direction, because she cleary doesn't have taste or a good idea. It is either her way or the highway. With a half intelligent edit and a reshoot of a few scenes this could of been amazing but instead we got this.

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And they managed to ruin it with the worst space wizardry in film.

are you people ready to admit that fixing the EU and pushing out to mainstream including turning parts into movies would have been better than this shit?

[Skyforge1]

Two people talking is not a romance. Absolutely ZERO feelings are shown between any characters until a ship crashes. Wtf are you even talking about. Just because a guy and a girl have a private conversation they are romantically involved? The ship crash scene romance came out of know-where as well. One of them didnt even know how to react to it. So again. One scene. A conversation is not a romance, else Poe and BB8 had a romance. Chewy and a porg had a romance. Hell Luke and Leia had a romance.

I take it you don't know a whole lot about romance then?

No one is saying they are in love but the chemistry between them was there, He literally took his glove off to touch her hand.

When Kylo says "You mean nothing to them... You mean something to me, join me... please." what did you think that meant? That she was just a cool chick he would like to have hanging around with him on the Star Destroyer

[Mormolyce]

are you people ready to admit that fixing the EU and pushing out to mainstream including turning parts into movies would have been better than this shit?

I love the EU, but it's not compatible with a film series adaptation. At best you could take elements of it.

And of course some books were straight up awful.

[Zeta333]

I love the EU, but it's not compatible with a film series adaptation. At best you could take elements of it.

And of course some books were straight up awful.

and this is better? Bland stories whos core has already been told before, massive year holes in the story. Constant story breaking mechanics? i agree several books were bad, but not above re-writes or revisions. At least we had laid out mechanics, tech, story, explanations behind that, actuall advancement in tech ie tie fighters are still being fucking used 30 years later as front line ship. sorry i still dont see it. It wouldnt have been hard to adapt the books to movies or tv shows fuck the expanse is a giant god damn example of that. im just sitting back and watching disney milk this series for every cent its worth and not giving a fuck about the continuity or story.

[Elim Garak]

Jedi is actually both singular and plural.

Please, tell me it's just a lousy attempt at trolling.

[Mormolyce]

and this is better? Bland stories whos core has already been told before, massive year holes in the story. Constant story breaking mechanics? i agree several books were bad, but not above re-writes or revisions. At least we had laid out mechanics, tech, story, explanations behind that, actuall advancement in tech ie tie fighters are still being fucking used 30 years later as front line ship. sorry i still dont see it. It wouldnt have been hard to adapt the books to movies or tv shows fuck the expanse is a giant god damn example of that. im just sitting back and watching disney milk this series for every cent its worth and not giving a fuck about the continuity or story.

I also don't know if I really want to see a story I already know adapted, I mean sometimes that works but often it's just inferior to the original.

I was fine with TFA, I'm concerned about the series after TLJ though. But in general, I prefer the idea of starting again.

[Verdugo]

I didnt expect Kylo to be so shredded.

Guess he was talking truth in that SNL sketch.

[Deletedaccount1]

As to the "How did you find Rogue One better?" crowd. The threat felt real from the antagonists, like they were able to achieve something. Here they only seem to be effective through protagonist incompetence.

That whole movie is undermined by the fact that you already know how it ends. How does the threat feel real when everyone knows that the rebels end up with plans and end up winning anyway? The characters were so weak and underwritten that no one cared about them anyway and they weren't in the other movies so it was obvious from the start what would happen to them.

[Aurrora]

How is this a plot hole?

I'd say it's a bit of a plot hole that they're still looked to as heroes when it was their going rogue that got 90% of the resistance killed, but maybe we'll see their court martial at the start of the next film.

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I love the EU, but it's not compatible with a film series adaptation. At best you could take elements of it.

And of course some books were straight up awful.

Of course it would always just be elements of the EU, you couldn't expect them to keep everything. I'd rather this trilogy have been about an extragalactic species invading than a military suddenly rising to superior power out of nowhere with seemingly unlimited resources that is never explained. The Yuuzhan Vong actually gave Palpatine a motive for creating the Empire instead of the "Let's just be evil for the lulz and oppress the galaxy for no apparent reason" motivation that he has without them.

[Zeta333]

I'd say it's a bit of a plot hole that they're still looked to as heroes when it was their going rogue that got 90% of the resistance killed, but maybe we'll see their court martial at the start of the next film.

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Of course it would always just be elements of the EU, you couldn't expect them to keep everything. I'd rather this trilogy have been about an extragalactic species invading than a military suddenly rising to superior power out of nowhere with seemingly unlimited resources that is never explained. The Yuuzhan Vong actually gave Palpatine a motive for creating the Empire instead of the "Let's just be evil for the lulz and oppress the galaxy for no apparent reason" motivation that he has without them.

it even gave thrawn purpose and reason behind most of what he did.

[Leih]

Of course it would always just be elements of the EU, you couldn't expect them to keep everything. I'd rather this trilogy have been about an extragalactic species invading than a military suddenly rising to superior power out of nowhere with seemingly unlimited resources that is never explained. The Yuuzhan Vong actually gave Palpatine a motive for creating the Empire instead of the "Let's just be evil for the lulz and oppress the galaxy for no apparent reason" motivation that he has without them.

If it helps at all, in the new canon Thrawn novel there is a few heavy-handed hints towards some great threat from beyond the edge of the Galaxy that the Chiss have been battling for years and one of the reason Thrawn joins the Empire is to see if they are strong enough to defend against those invaders. I wouldn't be surprised if the new trilogy that's recently been announced starts exploring this idea which is obviously inspired by the EU.

[Zeta333]

If it helps at all, in the new canon Thrawn novel there is a few heavy-handed hints towards some great threat from beyond the edge of the Galaxy that the Chiss have been battling for years and one of the reason Thrawn joins the Empire is to see if they are strong enough to defend against those invaders. I wouldn't be surprised if the new trilogy that's recently been announced starts exploring this idea which is obviously inspired by the EU.

its a shame it took over 3 years of the fans telling them they wanted cannon thrawn for them to finally do it. It seems to me it would have been pretty obvious he had to be a part of it as his trilogy was literally one of the best in starwars.

[Aurrora]

If it helps at all, in the new canon Thrawn novel there is a few heavy-handed hints towards some great threat from beyond the edge of the Galaxy that the Chiss have been battling for years and one of the reason Thrawn joins the Empire is to see if they are strong enough to defend against those invaders. I wouldn't be surprised if the new trilogy that's recently been announced starts exploring this idea which is obviously inspired by the EU.

Palpatine was seemingly unaware of it though before Thrawn told him so it doesn't really help with retconning in a motivation for him to seize control of the galaxy.

[Leih]

Palpatine was seemingly unaware of it though before Thrawn told him so it doesn't really help with retconning in a motivation for him to seize control of the galaxy.

Not really, no.

But I just meant some other aspects of the whole conflict might come more into play. I think Palpatine's story is pretty much done as far as the canon universe is concerned. The original EU stuff really ... uh... I was gonna say it milked Palpatine but I don't really want that mental image.

[Deleted]

I was pretty pissed when i got out of the movie.
I will not spoil anything but the way they handle Luke a movie hero from my childhood is fucked up in my opinion.

[ryan11d7]

So I broke down and went to see it late this evening and it left a few questions for me unanswered:

When Snoke is talking about Kylo striking down his true enemy, it almost seems as if he sees what is coming, the wording he used is as if he knows what is going on. However when he looks down he seems surprised, so to me that seemed very confusing. I think they handed it off to Kylo at a bad time. Kylo just got his ass handed to him by Rey and basically right after he is now the big bad in the movie. So much build up of Snoke and he is just dead? To me it seems like he wanted that to happen, maybe to come back, or maybe to attach himself to Rey/Kylo (Calling it, he is Plagueis, who attached himself to Sidious after he was killed, When Sidious died he re manifested, and now he has attached himself to Kylo, Totally not being serious nor will that happen but would be interesting) . He seems like he has alot of knowledge of the force and the Jedi/Sith and is powerful, so for him to not see that coming, he lacks any awareness what so ever. Unless Snoke knew his time was coming to an end and he was trying to build up Kylo up to that point to make him stronger and help him do what he needs to be done. What do you guys think about this?

All in all I was majorly disappointed with no information on Snoke, I am hoping they elaborate more or somehow he isn't dead (or maybe just leaching off of Kylo and coming back when Kylo is dead). They are just starting to now build up Kylo as the big bad, so I don't know how they will only have 1 more movie with this storyline, I forsee at least 2-3 more movies of buildup, if it ends after 1 more movie and they are still trying to build the main villain up I would be disappointed. I think they could have went into some more detail with the Jedi/Sith history.

[Deleted]

Why is anybody willing to let this shithead (joke intended) direct any film after what he did to ST and now SW?

Previous director walked out n nobody else wanted the risk after the direction jar jar took the trilogy...so I guess it's him or nothing.

[Aurrora]

So I broke down and went to see it late this evening and it left a few questions for me unanswered:

When Snoke is talking about Kylo striking down his true enemy, it almost seems as if he sees what is coming, the wording he used is as if he knows what is going on. However when he looks down he seems surprised, so to me that seemed very confusing. I think they handed it off to Kylo at a bad time. Kylo just got his ass handed to him by Rey and basically right after he is now the big bad in the movie. So much build up of Snoke and he is just dead? To me it seems like he wanted that to happen, maybe to come back, or maybe to attach himself to Rey/Kylo (Calling it, he is Plagueis, who attached himself to Sidious after he was killed, When Sidious died he re manifested, and now he has attached himself to Kylo, Totally not being serious nor will that happen but would be interesting) . He seems like he has alot of knowledge of the force and the Jedi/Sith and is powerful, so for him to not see that coming, he lacks any awareness what so ever. Unless Snoke knew his time was coming to an end and he was trying to build up Kylo up to that point to make him stronger and help him do what he needs to be done. What do you guys think about this?

All in all I was majorly disappointed with no information on Snoke, I am hoping they elaborate more or somehow he isn't dead (or maybe just leaching off of Kylo and coming back when Kylo is dead). They are just starting to now build up Kylo as the big bad, so I don't know how they will only have 1 more movie with this storyline, I forsee at least 2-3 more movies of buildup, if it ends after 1 more movie and they are still trying to build the main villain up I would be disappointed. I think they could have went into some more detail with the Jedi/Sith history.

I think it goes back to why Yoda warned Luke about the difficulty of seeing the future in ESB. What they all saw was accurate, from a certain point of view. Kylo saw Rey joining with him, which she did for a time. Rey saw Kylo turning on Snoke with her assistance, which he did. Snoke saw Kylo striking down his "true enemy", which he apparently did. It's likely their sense of the future wasn't the same as we see in the TFA forceback but rather vague impressions of the future which they color with their desire of what the future will be.

This however conflicts with his apparent level of power with the Force. Kylo claims that the effort of linking him to Rey with the force would have killed her, but Snoke was able to do it without killing himself. Then when Luke does it, it kills him in the end. With Snoke being apparently so powerful, how does he go out like this?