"go play retail then" is getting old

[MoanaLisa]

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game

"Game-breaking" comes out as an argument on both sides when people don't have a good argument to make.

Here's mine: It's not about whether or not those things are game-breaking. That doesn't matter. It's about preserving a memory of a very great game in its more-or-less original state. That does matter. It's a piece of history.

[Zantos]

So in other words, you like old junk?

If people Didn't like the old server, why did they spend so much time and effort bugging Blizzard for Years for it? Seriously, its the most asinine thing I have ever seen. People begged and pleaded and argued intensely for Years to try to get classic servers. Now they have it and everyone wants a different variation. At this point, I wouldn't blame Blizzard if they backed out of it. They finally agreed after it being the One thing they Sternly, flat out said No to, and then they are met with everyone saying "but, wait, you should totally add this to it too".

If you want classic, you get classic. Not classic with modern features. Not classic with some balance of QoL. Classic, true and pure. If that isn't what you want, then don't play it.

[Moon-Man]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Go play retail then.



lel. You dont get features from Retail into Classic, get over it. You want LFR or Xmog in classic? Guess what mate, GO PLAY RETAIL THEN.

[Zyky]

....?

This literally never, EVER happens in retail.

Why would it happen in vanilla? Even if it does happen, you just tell the community about that person ninjaing shit, and bam, nobody invites them to groups anymore.

Stop it.

It does happen in retail quite often. Personal loot drops, "do you need that", "ya sorry I need the mog". It happens in low level dungeons too, people needing on things to fill out a "collection of gear", be it trash greens or boss blues. It DOES still happen, you just don't see it as often enough to acknowledge it anymore because of how Blizzard has forced personal loot in many of their dungeons/raids, so its all done in whispers now or the person flat ignores you when you ask in party chat.

[Dacu]

If you want AoE looting and Dual spec then go play retail because guess what..... IT HAS IT! WOOO!

Did Classic WoW have AoE looting and Dual Spec? No..... =( Sad Panda..... so go play RetaiL! Yay!

The only reason these servers are happening is because of Nostalrius, and the people that played on Nostalrius. These servers are happening because people enjoyed authentic vanilla gameplay. That is the only thing that should be available on these classic servers. Authentic. Vanilla. Gameplay. I don't care which patch they start at, it's all vanilla gameplay; just difference stages of it. Start at beta and progress through the various patches for all I care, it's still vanilla, it's all vanilla.

[Joti]

Exactly. The people who actually fought, scratched and clawed for this want the original classic WoW experience. Not 'kinda like classic, but with modern bits too!'

LOL and by "fought, scratched and clawed" you mean illegally pirated Blizzard software and cried about "retail babies" for years. Retail players, by supporting Blizzard financially, have done far more to support classic WOW than people who pirated their software.

[Kazuchika]

Too bad. Cry babies will quit and move on. Sound like a good deal to me.

lol I don't have a horse in the race either way.

I was around in 2005 and I know how shitty it was compared to current day. Been there, done that.

[dwarfeckiy]

Why people who seek retail level of convenience bother even looking at vanilla wow? There is like nothing new for you to even see.
All that quality of life shit you try to force upon classic wow is exact reason why people wanted to have vanilla again in the first place.
You literally have all the content of vanilla in retail + your beloved quality of life tools, so why bother with classic wow? Is it too easy for you in retail? Then again, why do you want it to be easier in vanilla? It would just make it another retail but of a different patch. It's hilarious that some people don't even understand the dogshit they are trying to argue for.

[Zyky]

"Your guild" is not representative of the whole of Vanilla.

It was not EXPECTED that you would simply have gear and the know how to play multiple specs for the average player pre-dual spec. You didn't go to Naxx with a new guild and have them say "Go tank warrior" with you having no idea how to tank - Yes, they tried to help you learn to tank because they wanted you to tank, but they didn't recruit you as a DPS warrior and expect you to tank. (Except for maybe 4 horsemen. But that fight was literally designed for you to have more tanks than usual.)

Not that that matters, because when you have dual spec, you DON'T have an excuse to not tank, especially once they removed tank-specific stats entirely so you didn't need defense rating either. "I don't want to" is a fine excuse, and "It's both a pain in the ass for me to do AND I don't want to" is more than enough reason not to - Yes, even if your guild is asking you to.

My guild was a fair representation of MOST guilds after hearing/reading many players stories of others experiences in Vanilla. It was expected and if you weren't willing you'd be removed and they would find someone who was willing, yes that happened all the time and yes people got blacklisted. Pretending it didn't happen is living in a fantasy world.

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

The real problem is people like you with your slippery-slope arguments. Oh yeah, it's totally impossible to just change a couple things, if they change a couple things then they HAVE to turn the game into Legion! No other choice! No line drawn anywhere!

You really, honestly, no-shit, think that Blizzard is going to launch a "classic" server and then turn it into Legion capped at 60?

really now

think about what you're saying, man

That's exactly how change happens. One small step at a time and people will demand more and more. Look at what happened with riding skill over time. Every single step were just QoL improvements back then and now they can't go back without an endless wave of people complainging. At first riding was ridiculously expensive and at 40/60 for slow/fast. By now we have 3 speeds of flying, water walking, riding at 20/40 for slow/fast and all of that got improved or is easier to obtain than it was when each of these things released. Everything added step by step and Blizzard is unable to take it away for longer than a few months, despite these QoL improvements having a negative effect on some aspects of gameplay. Just remember the outcry when they tried to take water walking mounts away, or look at all the forum posts/threads with "no flying on argus" or similar.

So yes, I am concerned about how Blizzard is going to launch Classic servers. If they give in to just some of the suggestions for "QoL improvements" that are suggested by a part of the community, they will quickly reach a point where Classic doesn't feel like Vanilla anymore.

[Sentynel]

I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Why the fuck are you typing in full caps? Are you angry or what?

OT: No dualspec, no loot trading, no mass looting. /thread

[Xerra]

I would like the connection to battlenet stuff like sending mail to alts or messaging friends being auto fill. Is that too anti classic? Autofilling for sending mail is really nice. Should we make it so you can't remote in with guildies so those asshats need to log into the game fully to do anything? Thats cool I guess doesnt effect me. I think the world maps were more accurate and detailed post classic I would like those maps. Or invite to group from your social list dont think that was a thing for a while.

[Hitei]

gear was a status symbol. By the point it was released there was already a huge problem of everyone wearing the same gear, and gear being widely available (with identical models). When gear was harder to obtain, it had a more of an effect. You didnt need a a gearscore addon/achievements to asses someone's progress, you could just see it.

A wrath baby wouldn't know is basically what i'm saying

Except that that is literally no different with transmog, a single glance at someone via inspect will tell you what they are wearing, which you have to do anyway, because all you can see on a caster, for instance, is shoulders, chest, main-hand and belt. Leaving two trinkets, two rings, boots, pants, bracers, neckpiece, cloak, head and off-hand (plus any class items like quivers/totems/etc) unobservable. A couple lucky drops can make someone in awful gear look very geared.

People who want gear as a status symbol can still sit around IF in their actual gear. Transmog doesn't have any impact on those people.

I guess it's a good thing I started in 1.8.

[endersblade]

Original beta or bust then

*brofist* rock on brother

[ComputerNerd]

The whole point is to enjoy Vanilla WoW isn't it? Ya know the GAMEPLAY? Or at least shouldn't it be?

What harm does throwing in a few insignificant QoL changed to enhance your experience (aoe looting, etc) do?

If insignificant, then you won't miss them.
The more a modern feature is justified by repeated downplaying it, then that only proves just the opposite.

gear was a status symbol. By the point it was released there was already a huge problem of everyone wearing the same gear, and gear being widely available (with identical models). When gear was harder to obtain, it had a more of an effect. You didnt need a a gearscore addon/achievements to asses someone's progress, you could just see it.

A wrath baby wouldn't know is basically what i'm saying

Good gear was not defined by it being part of a set in many cases,
Transmog does not make current good gear any easier to obtain.
It never did.

If you judged someone on the simplistic measure of having a matching tier set then you were as much an idiot as someone relying on a scoring addon.

[munkeyinorbit]

i agree transmog breaks the game

dual spec doesn't. When it was released, it was welcomed by EVERYONE.

Dual spec breaks the game. If you want to PvP one spec and raid another, there has to be a cost involved. This cost is (I can't remember properly) 50g. If you do not like it then fuck off to retail. If you can willy nilly change spec out in the world, then the immersion is gone. It essentially turns into an arcade game. True fans of Blizzard's original vision do not need badtailers coming on in and ruining the game for us.

[alturic]

While agree, QOL changes are typically not looked at as taking away from a game... the point is "you guys like Vanilla?"... anything that was added after whatever point in time they planned on having classic be based around... isn't classic.

However, you have to at least see implications these QOL changes bring... on the surface, what harm does mass loot do? Well, for one it allows you to kill a bunch of mobs, while mobs are spawning around you, mass loot and run to safety. While I'm not trying to say classic was easy/hard (it was just... a different game) you have to at least see how changes could affect major parts of what made classic.

[munkeyinorbit]

LOL and by "fought, scratched and clawed" you mean illegally pirated Blizzard software and cried about "retail babies" for years. Retail players, by supporting Blizzard financially, have done far more to support classic WOW than people who pirated their software.

Do you know anything. Blizzard wants those 90K players back. By becoming thieves and stealing Blizzards property, these 90K players have essentially forced a multi-billion dollar company's hand and give them what they want. Pfft Badtailers. Taking credit and being entitled since 2007.

[Lightbull]

Coming from someone who loves retail and hates Vanilla... let people have pure Vanilla.

People are asking for Classic. It doesn't matter how much it doesn't make sense to you, people enjoyed it back then and don't want anything to change. The proof lies in private servers, where everything was exactly the same as it was back in Vanilla warts and all, but people loved it anyway.

A game doesn't have to be completely perfect and refined to be loved by many.

[munkeyinorbit]

While agree, QOL changes are typically not looked at as taking away from a game... the point is "you guys like Vanilla?"... anything that was added after whatever point in time they planned on having classic be based around... isn't classic.

However, you have to at least see implications these QOL changes bring... on the surface, what harm does mass loot do? Well, for one it allows you to kill a bunch of mobs, while mobs are spawning around you, mass loot and run to safety. While I'm not trying to say classic was easy/hard (it was just... a different game) you have to at least see how changes could affect major parts of what made classic.

AoE Loot is a no go for me. Blizzard didn't even have auto loot for a lot of Vanilla.