What is the logic behind saying Piracy is stealing?

[Katchii]

The actual IP owner is RARELY the author, most of the time it's a corporation. Fuck laws that favor corporations.

Laws don't work that way. I know what you're trying to say, but you don't get to choose which laws do or do not apply to you simply because you don't like them. And for all intents and purposes, the corporation IS the IP owner in those cases. However the law applies to every IP owner whether they're a mom and pop shop, some indie garage developer or a corporation.

[Elim Garak]

Laws don't work that way.

Copyright laws don't work at all

[Lollis]

The license the owner sells is removed from him by the pirate. There is no way for the owner to get it back.

No it isn't. It is copied.

You don't understand how cracked software works. Cracking groups don't steal keys.

[Graeham]

It's a shame that we can't claim that it's 'piracy' when corporations steal information about ourselves and sell it to third parties to make a profit. After all, the logic is similar - we're missing out on potential profit.

[Magical Mudcrab]

It never becomes stealing.

It becomes stealing if you do it on a boat.

[haxartus]

That's bullshit. The first one maybe with a stretch (the only new thing about it was the use of fingers instead of a stylus and the "one button" design). The Xth one though? Getouttahere.

It's not bullshit and it's applicable to pretty much every advanced IT product - over 90% of the cost is due to intellectual labor. That $1000 Intel CPU costs like $40 to make, but Intel spent a few billion $ on research and development before they can build it. So this is added in the cost.

If the cost of the product is 90-95% intellectual labor, it's not "OK" to steal it, yet if it's 100% people think it's OK ?

[Tackhisis]

Cracking groups don't steal keys.

To run an application that was written by another, you need a permission.
Such permissions are called "licenses", and are usually sold by the author of the software.
If you are able to run the software, without paying for it, that means you've stole the license (as the software cannot work without a license).

[adamzz]

If piracy wasn't an option you wouldn't have the mentality you have now. If the only way for you to watch walking dead was paying for it, either through online streaming or TV then you would pay.

The only reason you say now that you would never spend money on it is because you can pirate it.

- - - Updated - - -

To run an application that was written by another, you need a permission.
Such permissions are called "licenses", and are usually sold by the author of the software.
If you are able to run the software, without paying for it, that means you've stole the license (as the software cannot work without a license).

Cracks are made to circumvent the license, so you don't need a license for it to work. They don't steal licenses they steal the application.

[tehdef]

I love the first few posts.

> You'll just do mental gymnastics.

etc.

I'm someone who worked for Blizzard for 7 years, back during the launch of WoW. I also now work for a smaller company that has a lot of old PDF's that are stolen frequently.

Here is how I feel about downloading stuff that has a reasonable entry to acquire legally.

You're stealing from the hard work of people JUST LIKE YOU. They are simply trying to live their lives. May you never have purchased it? Absolutely. But does that mean you should receive enjoyment for something that typically costs money, but you took for free? If you say yes, then you're just a shitty person.

Remember, the people you "took from" are just like you. They want to live their lives, and hope that the more people like the thing they made and buy it, the more money they have to do shit they want to do in their life, like vacation, buy a house, etc.

In summation. There is a human somewhere in the chain of people affected by this, and you should try to humanize this action. It will make it easier to understand why it's bad.

[Ghostpanther]

I love the first few posts.

> You'll just do mental gymnastics.

etc.

I'm someone who worked for Blizzard for 7 years, back during the launch of WoW. I also now work for a smaller company that has a lot of old PDF's that are stolen frequently.

Here is how I feel about downloading stuff that has a reasonable entry to acquire legally.

You're stealing from the hard work of people JUST LIKE YOU. They are simply trying to live their lives. May you never have purchased it? Absolutely. But does that mean you should receive enjoyment for something that typically costs money, but you took for free? If you say yes, then you're just a shitty person.

Remember, the people you "took from" are just like you. They want to live their lives, and hope that the more people like the thing they made and buy it, the more money they have to do shit they want to do in their life, like vacation, buy a house, etc.

In summation. There is a human somewhere in the chain of people affected by this, and you should try to humanize this action. It will make it easier to understand why it's bad.

Well said. The real issue is too many people are just greedy bastards, who want things for free and not have to pay for it. They never give a thought about who they may be hurting.

[tehdef]

Well said. The real issue is too many people are just greedy bastards, who want things for free and not have to pay for it. They never give a thought about who they may be hurting.

Thank you.

It's why in the grand scheme of things, I really loved working for Blizzard during the height of WoW. You either bought the game and subbed, or you didn't play. Those vanilla servers didn't exist like they have, during Wrath of the Lich King.

In Mar 09, Blizzard cut me a bonus check for just over $18,000 USD as a manager level profit sharing. It was a good day. They gave me profit sharing in March and August, and a Christmas bonus for a % of my salary. Working for Blizzard has been one of the most rewarding experiences, but it also jaded me to the negativity, selfishness, and apathy that people have for those around them.

Their willingness to do simple things, like actively troll RP players directly, or indirectly through absolutely horrendous names that are directly in conflict with the rules. Things like running the Zul'aman bear exploit, where you jumped the wall, cleared the content then rang the gong and got an instant bear. Win trading in Arena. Glitching out the Opera event to do the big bad wolf as many times as you'd like (I saw 120 by 1 group, loot each time).

People are shitty, and I wish they'd think more.

[Vash The Stampede]

I'm someone who worked for Blizzard for 7 years, back during the launch of WoW. I also now work for a smaller company that has a lot of old PDF's that are stolen frequently.

Is that post or pre Cata? Cause after Cata was released that's when things went down hill.

Here is how I feel about downloading stuff that has a reasonable entry to acquire legally.

You're stealing from the hard work of people JUST LIKE YOU. They are simply trying to live their lives. May you never have purchased it? Absolutely. But does that mean you should receive enjoyment for something that typically costs money, but you took for free? If you say yes, then you're just a shitty person.

Never that black and white. For example I must have spent over $2k on World of Warcraft and I got sick of spending money on this game. Also, I believe the direction the game has went has made it gone to shit. So I'd like to play all the pre-Cata expansions, which I can't cause up until recently Blizzard thought that was a stupid idea. Now at least Blizzard is doing classic, but then why can't I host a classic server? There is an open source project for hosting your own vanila server, so why can't I host my own?

https://github.com/LightsHope/server

Another good example is Wolfenstein 2. This game has pissed me off to no ends. To me it seems like SJW propaganda. Thankfully I didn't buy the game, instead I pirated it. It was also in my opinion an awful game in terms of gameplay. If I had bought the game I wouldn't be able to return it, cause that's just how things go.

Remember, the people you "took from" are just like you. They want to live their lives, and hope that the more people like the thing they made and buy it, the more money they have to do shit they want to do in their life, like vacation, buy a house, etc.

What about those who put loot boxes in games? Are companies not content to just selling a game? What about the star wars battlefront 2 people? They now unable to go on vacation, buy a house, and etc cause we made them remove microtransactions? Shadow of Mordor 2 was cracked in a day just to get back at them for microtransactions. Pirating is a great way to protest game developers who make shitty decisions. And I really really doubt that these people are going hungry because of piracy. If you're a game developer who isn't making money then you made a shitty game. Plain and simple.

[tehdef]

Is that post or pre Cata? Cause after Cata was released that's when things went down hill.

Never that black and white. For example I must have spent over $2k on World of Warcraft and I got sick of spending money on this game. Also, I believe the direction the game has went has made it gone to shit. So I'd like to play all the pre-Cata expansions, which I can't cause up until recently Blizzard thought that was a stupid idea. Now at least Blizzard is doing classic, but then why can't I host a classic server? There is an open source project for hosting your own vanila server, so why can't I host my own?

https://github.com/LightsHope/server

Another good example is Wolfenstein 2. This game has pissed me off to no ends. To me it seems like SJW propaganda. Thankfully I didn't buy the game, instead I pirated it. It was also in my opinion an awful game in terms of gameplay. If I had bought the game I wouldn't be able to return it, cause that's just how things go.


What about those who put loot boxes in games? Are companies not content to just selling a game? What about the star wars battlefront 2 people? They now unable to go on vacation, buy a house, and etc cause we made them remove microtransactions? Shadow of Mordor 2 was cracked in a day just to get back at them for microtransactions. Pirating is a great way to protest game developers who make shitty decisions. And I really really doubt that these people are going hungry because of piracy. If you're a game developer who isn't making money then you made a shitty game. Plain and simple.

ITP: Thief rationalizes thievery.

[Katchii]

Copyright laws don't work at all

They are pretty difficult to enforce, that is true. Doesn't make them wrong though.

[Elim Garak]

They are pretty difficult to enforce, that is true. Doesn't make them wrong though.

They would've been wrong even if government had enforced them 100%

[Katchii]

They would've been wrong even if government had enforced them 100%

Why is it wrong though? In this day and age where ideas and other intangible things can be used to make a living, why is it wrong to protect that which, by rights, is yours?

[Elim Garak]

Why is it wrong though? In this day and age where ideas and other intangible things can be used to make a living, why is it wrong to protect that which, by rights, is yours?

Because you should not have rights to restrict others from copying your work for personal use. The only right you should have is the right to be given credit as the original author/creator when someone uses your work to make profit and they must pay you % of profits - as per license agreement. And most authors/creators are fine with that. Current copyright laws exists for corporations to exploit them.

[Katchii]

Because you should not have rights to restrict others from copying your work for personal use. The only right you should have is the right to be given credit as the original author/creator when someone uses your work to make profit and they must pay you % of profits - as per license agreement. And most authors/creators are fine with that. Current copyright laws exists for corporations to exploit them.

If it's mine, I alone should get to decide who gets it and when. If people wanted other people to have it for free they'd make it so and share it freely which they are allowed to do, nothing forces them to try and lock it up/ copyright it and make money off of it. If they don't give it away for free it means they don't want you to have it for free. Of course corporations use that to make money, as well they should, but individuals also use it too.

No one but the author/creator has any rights to decide what happens to their work and how or if it even gets distributed. Why do you think you have a right to decide how and when other peoples work gets used and for what purpose? That's asinine.

[Elim Garak]

If it's mine, I alone should get to decide who gets it and when.

And you do with the original work. We are talking about copies.

[Katchii]

And you do with the original work. We are talking about copies.

But why do YOU get decide when and how to get copies of my/ someone else's work? Why doesn't the owner?