How Classic Must Be

[Gurluas]

you want new content? welcome buddy to live!

Not the same. After 2-3 years, people WILL get bored of the same stuff.
I want them to carry on the original story, original world, original graphics, original design philosophy and develop stuff based on that.
Like a Karazhan Crypts dungeon or a vanilla Karazhan, and Emerald Dream, and Outland, etc. All stuff that was being worked on during vanilla.

Live dropped the vanilla design philosophy mid-TBC and by Cata it was completely gone.

[WhiteEagle888]

Off course not, and blizzard redesigning IAS into haste has NOTHING to do with a haste stat they introduced in TBC kappa

So would you say that 7.3.5 is not a part of BfA design?

First of all, Blizz theselves said that features areno longer tied to expansions - they did away with this old mentality that was present up to legion.
Second of all, No, it has to do with game evolution. Allied races, now that will be a part of BfA design because it will be introduced in that expansion.
World Scaling is still a Legion feature if it comes before that.

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Not the same. After 2-3 years, people WILL get bored of the same stuff.
I want them to carry on the original story, original world, original graphics, original design philosophy and develop stuff based on that.
Like a Karazhan Crypts dungeon or a vanilla Karazhan, and Emerald Dream, and Outland, etc. All stuff that was being worked on during vanilla.

Live dropped the vanilla design philosophy mid-TBC and by Cata it was completely gone.

So you want 2 distinct timelines? WTF? XDXD

[SwislocK]

I mean I am sure the gear helped but let us be honest, Rag is a joke. I would fall asleep if I had to fight him in classic again.

[Gurluas]

First of all, Blizz theselves said that features areno longer tied to expansions - they did away with this old mentality that was present up to legion.
Second of all, No, it has to do with game evolution. Allied races, now that will be a part of BfA design because it will be introduced in that expansion.
World Scaling is still a Legion feature if it comes before that.

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So you want 2 distinct timelines? WTF? XDXD

Pretty much, lore was botched big time in Wotlk-Cata with stupid stuff like Med'an, Thrall green jesus and other idiocy.
Forsaken becoming like the Scourge, Garrosh losing all his char development from TBC in Wotlk and turned into "WAAAGH" out of nowhere and such.

Even TBC did stupid stuff like making Illidan into a cartoon villain and making Kael'thas betray his people. Vanilla had good lore and carried on directly from Warcraft 3.

[Charge me Doctor]

First of all, Blizz theselves said that features areno longer tied to expansions - they did away with this old mentality that was present up to legion.
Second of all, No, it has to do with game evolution. Allied races, now that will be a part of BfA design because it will be introduced in that expansion.
World Scaling is still a Legion feature if it comes before that.

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So you want 2 distinct timelines? WTF? XDXD

Allied races are certainly a part of new design, but also is "improved leveling experience" - which happens right now on live, the currently change how spells scale for low level characters to make 2k mortal strike crits on level 44 into 1k mortal strike crits. They always did it, and always do - they add stuff they want in the next expansion into old expansion just to try it out. Just like they did with one of secret mounts - this whole procedural generated maze - it was a fucking tech demo for BfA island plundering.

And just so you have better understanding -
"improved leveling experience" is a design, while "old world scaling" is a feature or a technology that is used in new design of "improved leveling experience". Their design shift from "fuck the old content" to "we want to make old content entertaining" is obvious (did you notice that you can create a trial account and finish all fucking classic zones at level 20, buy the game and go to wotlk/tbc? Yeah, it's great for new people who don't want to invest huge money into this game), it happens right now and will be fully implemented in BfA. It's a BfA design and they push the technology right now, to see how it works and test it out, instead of releasing who thing blindly and then fishing for all the bugs they could've avoided

[CerealLord]

Pretty much, lore was botched big time in Wotlk-Cata with stupid stuff like Med'an, Thrall green jesus and other idiocy.
Forsaken becoming like the Scourge, Garrosh losing all his char development from TBC in Wotlk and turned into "WAAAGH" out of nowhere and such.

Even TBC did stupid stuff like making Illidan into a cartoon villain and making Kael'thas betray his people. Vanilla had good lore and carried on directly from Warcraft 3.

I cannot see that ever happening. Why would they want to make a second MMO, that they have to develop, to directly compete with retail wow?

[Gurluas]

I cannot see that ever happening. Why would they want to make a second MMO, that they have to develop, to directly compete with retail wow?

The main focus would be on retail obviously, but if classic is successful, they may want to continue from there.
Look at Runescape and their classic servers. They were identical to a 2007 version of Runescape but since they've gotten new events and new story content but set within the design philosophy and story of the original RS. Old School Runescape is almost more popular than the main Runescape.

[CerealLord]

The main focus would be on retail obviously, but if classic is successful, they may want to continue from there.
Look at Runescape and their classic servers. They were identical to a 2007 version of Runescape but since they've gotten new events and new story content but set within the design philosophy and story of the original RS. Old School Runescape is almost more popular than the main Runescape.

Classic WoW will be popular, but it will not overtake retail WoW. The major difference is convenience. RS is not a difficult game, by any means. Classic WoW will be perceived as difficult to many retail players who are not used to the grind it used to be. For that reason alone, I am sure retail WoW will be more popular.

Just take me for example. Back when I played in Vanilla/BC i was able to no-life it because I was in school and had a part time job. Now, I have a family and I will be lucky to hit 60 even if I only played classic and not retail.

However, this is just my opinion. I could be 100% wrong and classic is the new main game. Only time will tell.

[WhiteEagle888]

Allied races are certainly a part of new design, but also is "improved leveling experience" - which happens right now on live, the currently change how spells scale for low level characters to make 2k mortal strike crits on level 44 into 1k mortal strike crits. They always did it, and always do - they add stuff they want in the next expansion into old expansion just to try it out. Just like they did with one of secret mounts - this whole procedural generated maze - it was a fucking tech demo for BfA island plundering.

And just so you have better understanding -
"improved leveling experience" is a design, while "old world scaling" is a feature or a technology that is used in new design of "improved leveling experience". Their design shift from "fuck the old content" to "we want to make old content entertaining" is obvious (did you notice that you can create a trial account and finish all fucking classic zones at level 20, buy the game and go to wotlk/tbc? Yeah, it's great for new people who don't want to invest huge money into this game), it happens right now and will be fully implemented in BfA

Fuck do I care? That's also besides the point. 1.12 is vanilla not tbc, and had 0 changes which tied to tbc, as I previously noted.
The point remains clear: you are a ********** ********** if you think that they will not include 1.12 at some point, preferable at the start to save the unnecessary hassle since it is latest and best iteration vanilla had.

[Charge me Doctor]

Fuck do I care? That's also besides the point. 1.12 is vanilla not tbc, and had 0 changes which tied to tbc, as I previously already said.
The point remains clear: you are a ********** ********** if you think that they will not include 1.12 at some point since it is latest and best iteration vanilla had.

More like it's the only iteration of vanilla you've played on private servers, ergo it's za best, amirite ?

[CerealLord]

More like it's the only iteration of vanilla you've played on private servers, ergo it's za best, amirite ?

Genuine question as I started late in vanilla/early BC.

Is there an issue with releasing it with the 1.12 changes, but gate the content? Were there changes that would make MC significantly easier?

[WhiteEagle888]

More like it's the only iteration of vanilla you've played on private servers, ergo it's za best, amirite ?

I played through vanilla start to finish.
I never played on private servers, not everyone needs to resort to makeshift loopholes
Also besides the point.

Since you like analogues:
A good russian joke also comes to mind regarding loopholes: The "Russian Shithouse".
It's basically two wooden sticks, one to lean on while shitting in the snow, the other one to keep the wolves at bay while doing it.

[Charge me Doctor]

Genuine question as I started late in vanilla/early BC.

Is there an issue with releasing it with the 1.12 changes, but gate the content? Were there changes that would make MC significantly easier?

Yes, like one-hander users being relevant DPSers or druids having innervate as a spell, not as a talent - it all makes content easier. Or making half of dungeon mobs from elite category into normal mob (ZF zombies).
It didn't became faceroll easy, but leveling and raiding BWL, MC and onixia in 1.12 compared to leveling, BWL, MC and onixia in 1.6 (pre ZG with its welfare gear) is just incomparable

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I played through vanilla start to finish.
I never played on private servers, not everyone needs to resort to makeshift loopholes
Also besides the point.

Since you like analogues:
A good russian joke also comes to mind regarding loopholes: The "Russian Shithouse".
It's basically two wooden sticks, one to lean on while shitting in the snow, the other one to keep the wolves at bay while doing it.

You definitely don't sound like someone who played "through vanilla start to finish", if you say that 1.12 is what vanilla are

[CerealLord]

Yes, like one-hander users being relevant DPSers or druids having innervate as a spell, not as a talent - it all makes content easier. Or making half of dungeon mobs from elite category into normal mob (ZF zombies).
It didn't became faceroll easy, but leveling and raiding BWL, MC and onixia in 1.12 compared to leveling, BWL, MC and onixia is just incomparable

Thank you for the insight! It is much appreciated

[WhiteEagle888]

You definitely don't sound like someone who played "through vanilla start to finish", if you say that 1.12 is what vanilla are

Are? Let's try that again shall we, on second note rather don't try it. you gave it your best shot regardless.
Anyway yes 1.12 was a part of vanilla, the latest and best iteration to be precise, and therefore it needs to roll out on that.

[Occam-OC]

Got some news for you, if that's how they were going to do it, they would just copy the code and put the servers up next month. Obviously they aren't doing that, so there's going to be changes whether you(or any of the private server whiners) like it or not.

This.
/10char

[Charge me Doctor]

Are? Let's try that again shall we, on second note rather don't try it. you gave it your best shot regardless.
Anyway yes 1.12 was a part of vanilla, the latest and best iteration to be precise, and therefore it needs to roll out on that.

it wasn't the best for literally all pre-AQ-Naxx content since everything below that became just a chore to do instead of a challenge.

[WhiteEagle888]

it wasn't the best for literally all pre-AQ-Naxx content since everything below that became just a chore to do instead of a challenge.

Obviously it will be a chore once you finish it on 5-7 chars. But not on the first one. you need attunements and all that first.
And no i'm not talking about the 10+ private servers you already did it on. I'm talking about retail classic.

[epLe]

Genuine question as I started late in vanilla/early BC.

Is there an issue with releasing it with the 1.12 changes, but gate the content? Were there changes that would make MC significantly easier?

The picture is abit bigger than your question.

Just for raiding we have :

1.0 Molten Core
1.6 Blackwing Lair
1.9 Ahn'Qiraj
1.11 Naxxramas

But all class changes in every patch from 1.0 to 1.12 matter when you talk about how different 1.12 is compared to real Vanilla.
Some classes changed more than others, but for example dagger rogues were really not really a pve viable spec until 1.12. due to talent changes.

The big issue is the tuning of raid encounters, the crux of Classic being successful or not.
To really make this tuning (and difficulty) correct, things overall have to be as they were when the raids was current.

Raiding earlier raids with 1.12 environment, affect Naxx the least, but every other raid gets majorly shafted.
The buffs classes recieved over all patches was more part of tuning or nerfing what was then current encounters, than balancing meters.

[Deleted]

1.12 client build is good for a private server. Could even say it's a great experience. It's not the way WoW Classic should be though, the main flaw in vanilla private servers for most people is that for example when it goes from 1.3-1.4; no talents are changed. It feels more like a gate of content has been unlocked rather than a new patch of content.

That's not even getting into the difficulty aspects. I've walked into Molten Core and Onxyia's lair on 1.11 patch with 1.12 client; dungeons are harder.