Saurfang and Nathanos' New models make me worry about Sylvanas.

[pateuvasiliu]

Actually its RAS, not her. + you gotta do something with those prisoners.



Thank god, shes evil nazi, as opposed to good nazi. Also, whats "nazi" about it again ?

RAS are Mengele, she's Hitler.

+ you gotta do something with those prisoners.

You mean people she kidnapped.

[Friendlyimmolation]

nearly every captured non-forsaken criminal was a scarlet, in vanilla they were captured war prisoners.

[Arrashi]

RAS are Mengele, she's Hitler.
You mean people she kidnapped.

Actually those are prisoners. And man, you are really desperate with that godwin.

[pateuvasiliu]

Actually those are prisoners. And man, you are really desperate with that godwin.

During Vanilla the Horde and Alliance were not in open war. The fights were skirmishes in the battlegrounds.

So you can try to make as many excuses for her as you want.

And no, it's not being desperate, it's really what it is. She wants to exterminate humans just like Hitler saw Jews as a blight upon the world. I mean she fucking has death camps and experimented on the humans she kidnapped.

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.

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nearly every captured non-forsaken criminal was a scarlet, in vanilla they were captured war prisoners.

There was no war in Vanilla, so no.

The lines say " Some of them were human. Some were Forsaken. "

Scarlets had only humans.

[Jastall]

Blizzard explained this in a Ask CDEV.



https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev#A...wers_-_Round_3




"in search of fresh recruits" is your addition. We have no idea why she wants Stormwind. A more likely explanation is that like Doomhammer before her, she believes the Horde and Alliance will never get along so the war is necessary.

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Varian tried to assassinate Horde leadership after Varimathras and Putress were already dealt with.

So instead of pure mind control they just send a bunch of half insane zombies at these same former allies. Guess that makes more sense but is hardly better morality wise. And it's highly hypocritical to say you're for free will, only to then turn around, kill people and take advantage of their frenzied state to turn them against their fellows. I also fail to see how effective it is, would a soldier of Stormwind be more inclined to join the Forsaken after being told he was just send as cannon fodder and luckily survived?

And maybe Horde and Alliance would get along better if not for people who are and act exactly like Sylvanas. She's a problem looking for a solution in this case.

[Friendlyimmolation]

During Vanilla the Horde and Alliance were not in open war. The fights were skirmishes in the battlegrounds.

So you can try to make as many excuses for her as you want.

And no, it's not being desperate, it's really what it is. She wants to exterminate humans just like Hitler saw Jews as a blight upon the world. I mean she fucking has death camps and experimented on the humans she kidnapped.

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.

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There was no war in Vanilla, so no.

The lines say " Some of them were human. Some were Forsaken. "

Scarlets had only humans.

not even in her own words in her inner monologues has she expressed a desire to wipe out humanity. She wanted to punish the humans of Lordaeron for Arthas.

Also lol, the deathcamp in WoW was a forsaken who went against the other forsaken ideas and got killed.

At this point in time there is no excuse for you to be so wrong on canon.


even if it wasn't a major war there were still battles, sending troops into enemy territory, grounds on which you would kill enemy combatants and take others prisoner.

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.

ThIs TiMe FoR sUrE

[ello]

So instead of pure mind control they just send a bunch of half insane zombies at these same former allies. Guess that makes more sense but is hardly better morality wise. And it's highly hypocritical to say you're for free will, only to then turn around, kill people and take advantage of their frenzied state to turn them against their fellows.

It's not worse than anythign the Ebon Hold DKs do, and they objectively have free will , which was the topic at hand.

I also fail to see how effective it is, would a soldier of Stormwind be more inclined to join the Forsaken after being told he was just send as cannon fodder and luckily survived?

Not all Forsaken are risen in this angry state, go do the Forsaken starting zone and you'll see some just come back normally and are happy to have a second chance. It's a bittersweet thing for them.

And maybe Horde and Alliance would get along better if not for people who are and act exactly like Sylvanas. She's a problem looking for a solution in this case.

The Horde and Alliance have always had beef, it's not in any way limited to Sylvanas.

[Arrashi]

During Vanilla the Horde and Alliance were not in open war. The fights were skirmishes in the battlegrounds.

So you can try to make as many excuses for her as you want.

And no, it's not being desperate, it's really what it is. She wants to exterminate humans just like Hitler saw Jews as a blight upon the world. I mean she fucking has death camps and experimented on the humans she kidnapped.

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.
There was no war in Vanilla, so no.
The lines say " Some of them were human. Some were Forsaken. "
Scarlets had only humans.

Man you are having diarrhea of fanon like 80 year old who just discovered mexican food.
The prisoners were scarlets and other alliance combatans.
And boy, do you go hard on this hitler thing. At least try to stay on topic.

As for:

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.

I heard that one since....wotlk ? Tbc ? Minus the BfA part.

[ello]

But hey keep defending her. Can't wait for her to die in BfA.

This is a two faction game and Horde players are getting very tired of Warchief hot potato.

[pateuvasiliu]

not even in her own words in her inner monologues has she expressed a desire to wipe out humanity.

Right, making a plague that kills humans is fine and dandy.

Also lol, the deathcamp in WoW was a forsaken who went against the other forsaken ideas and got killed.

The test subjects in Undercity were in a death camp of their own.

At this point in time there is no excuse for you to be so wrong on canon.

Except I'm not wrong at all.

even if it wasn't a major war there were still battles, sending troops into enemy territory, grounds on which you would kill enemy combatants and take others prisoner.

You have no proof they were troops or in enemy territory. The woman was pretty obviously a civilian.

Even if they were combatants she's still evil for treating prisoners that way. The Alliance wouldn't torture prisoners to death. When orcs did it they were still possessed by demons.

Forcing undeath on people makes you evil, no ifs or buts about it. Sylvanas calls her existence as undead as torment back in Vanilla and she had free will. She now is forcing the same torment on others because she's a piece of shit who'll damn a thousand souls before accepting the fate she deserves.

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Man you are having diarrhea of fanon like 80 year old who just discovered mexican food.
The prisoners were scarlets and other alliance combatans.
And boy, do you go hard on this hitler thing. At least try to stay on topic


I heard that one since....wotlk ? Tbc ? Minus the BfA part.

Alliance combatants from where? The fictional war you created in your fantasies to defend Horde Hitler?

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This is a two faction game and Horde players are getting very tired of Warchief hot potato.

Most Horde players I know aren't pleased with having an evil Warchief who never cared about the Horde.

[Magistrate]

Now this is nothing short of Conspiracy here, but listen:

In 7.3.5 Both Nathanos and Saurfang got new models. (Along with Baine, but that is irrelevant to my theory, or is it)

Now, it is widely known that Racial Leaders not having their own models is very poor taste. With those 3, almost no racial leader will have a player model, Except poor Lor'Themar (good character, given terrible amount of attention) Gelbin Mekkatorque (Who has a giant badass mech to compensate though) and the Council of Three Hammers (Magni compensates here, just a little bit. Also Moira may get some attention when the Dark Iron race gets released)

Now, why am I worried about Sylvanas? Mainly because of Nathanos. He already got a touch-up in Legion with a fairly unique-ish dark human model. But gaining such a detailed model for such a secondary character? Something is off.

I am speculating something will happen to Sylvanas. Not death, as that would be cliche (ANNOTHER dead warchief, really?) But perhaps, the follwing quote from Helheim may be interesting:



As far as I know, Sylvanas struck some sort of a deal with Helya in order to be able to bind Eyir and mass produce her own val'kyr. A deal foiled by Genn.

Also, it is known that if Sylvanas dies her last death, she will go into a realm of endless void, where Arthas is currently chilling at as well. She would do anything to avoid such and end to herself, perhaps even Sacrificing her own people (the arrows in her quiver)

What if Sylvanas somehow is bound to Helya now through their "Deal", and in Helya's death is pulled to be her replacement and bound in Helheim? (Something like Hades, guardian of the underworld) That would lead Nathanos replacing her as the Forsaken Leader and maybe a part of the Desolate Council, and Saurfang (or Baine) Being made Warchief, bringing the title back to the "Natural" races who should bear it?

Feel free to chime in!

We killed Helya, therefor any deal with her holds no power or threat of reprisal.

[ello]

Most Horde players I know aren't pleased with having an evil Warchief who never cared about the Horde.

Are these "Horde" players that rolled a Belf Hunter to level 65 then switched back to their male human paladin in a stormwind tabard?


This is a expansion about faction unity, Garrosh 2.0 defeats the whole purpose.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Right, making a plague that kills humans is fine and dandy.

It kills anything, not humans.

Better kill Jaina, her magic kills humans, she's planning to wipe out humans.

The test subjects in Undercity were in a death camp of their own.

don't use incorrect terms. Medical experiments while cruel is not a death camp.

Except I'm not wrong at all.

Except for the part where you misuse terms and try to say that prisoners of war couldn't happen, un ironically bring up Hitler etc.

You have no proof they were troops or in enemy territory. The woman was pretty obviously a civilian.

lol that would be something you have to prove, scarlets and soldiers get scared too.

Even if they were combatants she's still evil for treating prisoners that way. The Alliance wouldn't torture prisoners to death. When orcs did it they were still possessed by demons.

Yes, its an actual evil action Sylvanas have done. Congratulations on being one of the few who actually bring it up.

Forcing undeath on people makes you evil, no ifs or buts about it.

the people who enjoy undeath disagree. That's a fancy way of saying your opinion=/= facts

Sylvanas calls her existence as undead as torment back in Vanilla and she had free will. She now is forcing the same torment on others because she's a piece of shit who'll damn a thousand souls before accepting the fate she deserves.

nothing implies one way or another why Sylvanas got screwed in the afterlife.

Alliance combatants from where? The fictional war you created in your fantasies to defend Horde Hitler?

The fights in Hillsbarad? The Fighting and chains of supplies from Alterac?

But hysterically you keep screeching Hitler un-ironically.

[pateuvasiliu]

It kills anything, not humans.

Better kill Jaina, her magic kills humans, she's planning to wipe out humans.

It kills the living. She doesn't need to worry about the dead, because she's the one raising them.

don't use incorrect terms. Medical experiments while cruel is not a death camp.

Medical experiments that result in death in 100% of cases is definitely death camp.

lol that would be something you have to prove

Even if she were a soldier they weren't at war so she was still nabbing innocents to test Ebola on them.

the people who enjoy undeath disagree.

And how many of them enjoy undeath more than their first life? Of course you ''enjoy'' undeath when the alternative is suicide or going off into the wilds to die alone.

nothing implies one way or another why Sylvanas got screwed in the afterlife.

It's pretty obvious, she's committed evil up the wazoo, just like Arthas has.

The fights in Hillsbarad? The Fighting and chains of supplies from Alterac?

Ahuh. Sure. Reality is she was kidnapped from Pyrewood or the Hillsbrad fields while picking flowers.

If the Forsaken have no qualms about testing ebola on people they sure as hell don't care if someone's a civilian.

But hysterically you keep screeching Hitler un-ironically.

Of course I bring him up unironically, she's worse than him. But he's the closest we have to her in the real life.

Are you blind that you don't see the resemblance or what? Are you that far gone?

[Arrashi]

Right, making a plague that kills humans is fine and dandy.
The test subjects in Undercity were in a death camp of their own.
Except I'm not wrong at all.
You have no proof they were troops or in enemy territory. The woman was pretty obviously a civilian.
Even if they were combatants she's still evil for treating prisoners that way. The Alliance wouldn't torture prisoners to death. When orcs did it they were still possessed by demons.
Forcing undeath on people makes you evil, no ifs or buts about it. Sylvanas calls her existence as undead as torment back in Vanilla and she had free will. She now is forcing the same torment on others because she's a piece of shit who'll damn a thousand souls before accepting the fate she deserves.
Alliance combatants from where? The fictional war you created in your fantasies to defend Horde Hitler?
Most Horde players I know aren't pleased with having an evil Warchief who never cared about the Horde.

First did you watched WW2 document in school this week and really liked some words or something ?

Second, plague is pretty much universal killer so that a moot point.

Alliance combatants from...hmmm..hillsbrad ? Southshore ? Do i need to bring more ?

That woman was obviously civilian based on what ? Her shitting herself ? Happens in trenches all the time.

Thank god she isnt forcing undeath and giving them choice then.

Oh and on topic of "alliance wouldnt torture prisoners to death" Did you know that in S-barrens they gouged eyes of orc prisoner just for lulz and he is so severely wounded you can't even help him as when you are infiltrating that base as horde ?

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It kills the living. She doesn't need to worry about the dead, because she's the one raising them.

Something something scourge. At this point you are showing ignorance of lore on comedic level.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It kills the living. She doesn't need to worry about the dead, because she's the one raising them.

Forgive me but I'm finding it harder and harder to figure out when you are being serious. You do realize the Blight was made to kill all the enemies of Lordaeron, the Scourge, the scarlets, the encroaching Alliance

Medical experiments that result in death in 100% of cases is definitely death camp.

Again, terms and definitions seem to be hard for you today. They aren't killing them for the sake of killing them therefore it is not a death camp.

It's pretty obvious, she's committed evil up the wazoo, just like Arthas has.

Except nothing is obvious, because nothing was ever confirmed.

Ahuh. Sure. Reality is she was kidnapped from Pyrewood or the Hillsbrad fields while picking flowers.

so another case of "my opinon" Purewood was full of Worgen. Hillsbrad had milita who had actively killed forsaken. Both would still not be civilians.

If the Forsaken have no qualms about testing ebola on people they sure as hell don't care if someone's a civilian.

considered they justified their testing by saying the forsaken used was a criminal? Again its down to your perception, one that you

Even if she were a soldier they weren't at war so she was still nabbing innocents to test Ebola on them.

The scarlets were at war with the forsaken. The people of hillsbrad and the Stormpike were fighting the forsaken since Vanilla.

And how many of them enjoy undeath more than their first life? Of course you ''enjoy'' undeath when the alternative is suicide or going off into the wilds to die alone.

we have no idea how many we enjoy it, and therefore like your own claim which also has no definitive answer, is useless and boils down to opinion.

Of course I bring him up unironically, she's worse than him. But he's the closest we have to her in the real life.

Are you blind that you don't see the resemblance or what? Are you that far gone?

fucking hysterical. It truly is pathetic to hate a fictional character to the extent where you can shame yourself by even saying that.

if you wan't to bring up Garrosh, the actual in universe Hitler, do so. But don't try t o seriously use it on Sylvanas because its the only buzzword you can think of to give your argument even a shred of pretend moral superiority.

[ello]

It's pretty obvious, she's committed evil up the wazoo, just like Arthas has.

The concept of evil doesn't even canonically exist in the WoW universe because there is no grand juror that decides "this person was good, they go here" or "this person was bad, they go to the shadowlands".

[Jastall]

It's not worse than anythign the Ebon Hold DKs do, and they objectively have free will , which was the topic at hand.




Not all Forsaken are risen in this angry state, go do the Forsaken starting zone and you'll see some just come back normally and are happy to have a second chance. It's a bittersweet thing for them.



The Horde and Alliance have always had beef, it's not in any way limited to Sylvanas.

Yeah and the Death Knights would probably be at war with half the known world if this was a game where the player's actions actually had consequences. Seriously, stealing one of Sylvanas's prized prisoners and then invading Wyrmrest? The fuck kind of dumbass allies are these.

And that's the thing, I can buy the second chance shtick when it comes to people that died to the Scourge or earlier. The people that are killed by the Forsaken, or the Horde in general, should rebel en masse as soon as the mind contro- easily manipulated rage wears off. Being turned into undead then used as cannon fodder should make them hate the Forsaken even more, not want to join.

I said people like Sylvanas, not just her. Garrosh counted, so do Rodgers, pre-MoP Varian and Genn, because the only way for the faction war to make sense in Blizzard's hands if the leaders are dicks who attack the blue/red team because they're the blue/red team. To me it's clear that Sylvanas replaced Vol'jin because they couldn't really write the latter as a warmonger. Then again they seemingly turn Anduin into one so what do I know at this point. TLDR fuck the dumb as hell faction war.

[Ash123]

Right, making a plague that kills humans is fine and dandy.

How many times do we have to reminder you? The foremost purpose of plague is to kill Arthas. Killing human is just a natural bonus.

[pateuvasiliu]

First did you watched WW2 document in school this week and really liked some words or something ?

Second, plague is pretty much universal killer so that a moot point.

Alliance combatants from...hmmm..hillsbrad ? Southshore ? Do i need to bring more ?

That woman was obviously civilian based on what ? Her shitting herself ? Happens in trenches all the time.

Thank god she isnt forcing undeath and giving them choice then.

Oh and on topic of "alliance wouldnt torture prisoners to death" Did you know that in S-barrens they gouged eyes of orc prisoner just for lulz and he is so severely wounded you can't even help him as when you are infiltrating that base as horde ?

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Something something scourge. At this point you are showing ignorance of lore on comedic level.

Right. The Scourge that are a continent away with no way of getting across.

Alliance combatants from...hmmm..hillsbrad ? Southshore ? Do i need to bring more ?

Southshore was a fisherman village with barely any military force and the Fields were just farmers in Vanilla. But keep digging.

Thank god she isnt forcing undeath and giving them choice then.

No, she is forcing undeath. She isn't asking them if they want to be undead. She's just not forcing them to keep living. But as I said when you're already Undead there isn't much choice between True Death ( where you could end up in Hell for all you know ) and keeping on living.

Not to mention she used the mindless state of fresh undead to make them kill their loved ones, anyway. No different from Arthas.

Oh and on topic of "alliance wouldnt torture prisoners to death" Did you know that in S-barrens they gouged eyes of orc prisoner just for lulz and he is so severely wounded you can't even help him as when you are infiltrating that base as horde ?

You mean those dudes that had gone rogue? Because if so, Warden Stillwater wants a word with you.

Again, terms and definitions seem to be hard for you today. They aren't killing them for the sake of killing them therefore it is not a death camp.

LOL.

Death camps didn't exist solely for killing, they also experimented on them and forced them to work. But keep trying to play semantics.

Except nothing is obvious, because nothing was ever confirmed.

There was no war in Vanilla. Capturing soldiers would be just as bad as capturing civilians at that point.

so another case of "my opinon" Purewood was full of Worgen. Hillsbrad had milita who had actively killed forsaken

Source on them having militia in Vanilla and attacking Forsaken?

considered they justified their testing by saying the forsaken used was a criminal?

Uh, yeah, they don't harm their own. How does that mean anything for them hurting the living?

The people of hillsbrad and the Stormpike were fighting the forsaken since Vanilla.

The people of hillsbrad weren't fighting anything.

is useless and boils down to opinion.

More like common sense but I don't expect you to be able to use it when you're excusing so much shit.

Those people are faithful and for all they know undeath tainted their soul. Of course they don't want to die and go to hell. Not after they were forced to kill their own families ( just like Arthas made his minions ) in their fresly raised state.

fucking hysterical. It truly is pathetic to hate a fictional character to the extent where you can shame yourself by even saying that.

Excuse me? Are you denying it?

Are you Hitler is worse than someone who raised people as zombies knowing they'd attack their own families?

Jesus Christ.

if you wan't to bring up Garrosh, the actual in universe Hitler, do so.

Garrosh never forced undeath on people and disliked killing civilians, something Sylvanas has no issue doing.

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How many times do we have to reminder you? The foremost purpose of plague is to kill Arthas. Killing human is just a natural bonus.

Sure, that's why they had humans to make sure it killed them too.