"go play retail then" is getting old

[Sorcath]

Don't run away from the question.

Now you're grasping at straws because you're upset and people are poking holes through your logic.

Relax guy, we're here to help.

[Asotcha]

And how does updated graphics affect anything you just said

Updated character models are one of the few points I'd have been willing to wiggle on, provided that they were off by default and included a toggle--until I realized that it would affect animations which weren't the same at the time, draw distance which was not the same at the time, and also having HD toons running around in low-res areas would look ridiculous. The characters wouldn't 'match' the rest of the world they'd be spending time in, and on the primordial level things have to coordinate. The dissonance could register with the player in subtle ways and probably seem uncomfortable.

Can you imagine a bunch of high-res player models jumping around in old Orgrimmar? On the bank? It sounds like it would look really stupid. Plus imagine all those high res player models can wear is low res vanilla gear.

Once people get used to seeing the old models again consistent with their environment it'll ultimately work out better in the long run.

[Sorcath]

Also I hate to break it to you, but the bolded part is exactly the reason Classic servers are coming.

This is not some harebrained quest to re-sell WoW; because it doesn't really need that. It stands on its merits and will continue to for years to come. So much so that the original version is something select people have been pining for.

Hey, you forgot something in your 'witty' retort.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

So in other words, you like old junk?

Some people do, I'm betting most of them are just stuck in nostalgia and don't actually want classic.

[Polarthief]

Where do you draw the line though?

Technically, LFR, LFG, multiple difficulties etc. won't "break the game." What they do, and what those examples you talk about above do though are change what Vanilla WoW was. It wasn't easy or cheap to switch between specs. It wasn't about easy AoE looting. It wasn't about just hopping in a queue and then being teleported to an instance.

I'd say you have to look at the consequences of each feature individually. If it greatly changes the feel of Vanilla, don't add it.

Here's a few examples:
- LFG/LFR/Cross-Realm Anything: You can now cross-realm stuff and no longer have to be a friendly/nice player on your own realm if you want to do content (at least at the lowest difficulty). With LFG, the death of server communities came. The game was completely changed by it, made even worse by LFR. Of course, server transfers also caused this problem initially, but with a queued system across multiple realms, it became much worse.
This is a prime example of something that would adversely affect Vanilla, in that server communities were huge back then.

- Dual Spec: Costs for talent swaps become way cheaper, which can have an effect on inflation/the economy. Is this + the purist tears worth adding Dual Spec?
This is an example of a "is this stepping over the line?" feature.

- AoE Looting: I honestly can't think of a consequence to this other than a few butthurt purists crying. It just saves you time that you would otherwise be looting. Seriously, if you're against saving time off of looting, you really should consider not being a whining purist.
Great example of something that should be added to the game because it doesn't hurt anyone but the most pure of purists, the 0.00001% of them that would cry if anything outside of 1.12 was added to the game.

- Transmog: I've heard complaints against Transmog but don't understand why. Only the better players will still have exclusive access to the amazing looking sets out of the highest dungeons and raids in general, and everyone else will still look like crap. At least now you can TRY to put together a set. In addition, if a player doesn't want to be bugged every 20m just because they have T3 or something, they can transmog out of it. The only restrictions I'd put in place here would be that you can't use mogs you gained from Live servers (but MAYBE you can unlock mogs on Classic and send that over to Live? Would be an added incentive for Live players to try Classic!)
Another example of "is this stepping over the line?". I see the complaints but I personally don't see the big deal, especially when you still need to obtain the cool mogs from difficult content in order to mog them. I know it's "not Vanilla", but then again, neither is having stable servers and not having the game crash every hour or so.

[Mosotti]

Now WoW is the Mona Lisa? C'mon man lol

It pretty much is a Mona Lisa of MMORPGs. But if you don't like that, have you heard of NES Classic? Why do you think they sold millions of them consoles with shitty looking games from the 90s in 2017? Why not "remaster" them? "Update" the graphics?

[Asotcha]

You did, and I really can't expand on something that was so thoroughly answered by yourself. I can't help your ability to comprehend things you pose, though.

But seeing as you seem to be lost in your own words

People want a game because of it's "mechanics"; whether social, functionality, interface, etc

You want changes to said "mechanics"...


Then it changes the game. Those mechanics you protected in the previous statement are under fire in your next. Quit trying to pick apart the game like if were offered on several different plates, when it should be viewed as a whole, wherein ALL the things that went into the game MADE how the original vanilla experience felt.

Let's get this 100% straight here. Classic community DOES NOT NEED YOU, OR, BY AND LARGE, THE VAST MAJORITY OF WOW PLAYERS TO SUCCEED. It's been doing so in a thriving community OUTSIDE of WoW since Vanilla has come down. And if you think there's not enough players, well I'd suggest you take a look at the subscription count and active daily players for realms like Nostalrius or any other large private server. It's well enough to keep a medium pop server alive.

Which brings me to my next point

BLIZZARD ISN'T MAKING THIS FOR YOU. YOU DON'T GET A PARTICIPATION AWARD BECAUSE YOU CAME IN LAST PLACE. THEY ARE DOING IT SOLELY TO RECAPTURE SUB COUNTS THAT GIVE THEM PROFIT, AS WOULD ANY LARGE CORPORATION WHEN THEY SEE A DECENT PROFIT MARGIN THEY CAN EASILY AND LEGALLY ACQUIRE.

I made those bold because you seem to be getting hung up on this idea that YOU are the reason they're creating WoW, and not the half a million players that play on private servers.

I feel this post should be stickied at the top of the classic forums page and linked to every time someone suggests something like 'but muh class balance'.

[Sorcath]

Some people do, I'm betting most of them are just stuck in nostalgia and don't actually want classic.

It's like people don't know antique stores exist in real life. Some people build careers off of this

[Asotcha]

Hey, you forgot something in your 'witty' retort.

Well, my point was that WoW tends to sell itself-- there's no real need to convince people that classic will be worth playing.

[Polarthief]

I feel this post should be stickied at the top of the classic forums page and linked to every time someone suggests something like 'but muh class balance'.

Well, my point was that WoW tends to sell itself-- there's no real need to convince people that classic will be worth playing.

At the same time though, if you have all the inconveniences Vanilla came with, and no good reason to make things just ever so better (like AoE looting), you might turn off a few extra players that might have otherwise added to the community or lined Blizzard's wallet a bit more.

Trust me I get it. I played Vanilla, I experienced it. I personally wouldn't want to go back in the form it was when I last played it unless they added some small QoL features. Not even asking for easier leveling or dual spec or something ridiculous like LFG. Hell I'm fine with the class balance since most of them were supporting the raid too (albeit, they should make 100% dead specs like Prot Paladin at least PLAYABLE), but I already experienced all that. At least give a slightly modified version (past the bugs/server issues)

Seriously, I just want to know who would be against something like AoE Looting, and for what good reason would you be upset about it? All it does is save you some seconds to a minute or so when looting corpses. I don't see any adverse effects other than "BUT HOW WILL I KNOW WHO DROPPED WHAT?!".

[Sorcath]

I feel this post should be stickied at the top of the classic forums page and linked to every time someone suggests something like 'but muh class balance'.

Ay, thanks mate.

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Well, my point was that WoW tends to sell itself-- there's no real need to convince people that classic will be worth playing.

Not you friendo. Matheney2k was trying to pull some cheeky guff from his pocket and edit your post to fit a narrative. I was simply correcting him

[Asotcha]

The contrast with the environment is a decent point. I assumed the entire world would get a 'face lift' so to speak in terms of res and whatnot.

I'd love to see a high-res treatment of old Orgrimmar--and I play alliance! Also imagine what they'd make zones like Feralas look like now, with everything they've learned with how to make a lush looking jungle like Tanaan and stuff.

I wonder if they'll ever do stuff like that in world changes again; I mean the last time they touched it with a ten foot pole was all the way back in Cata

- - - Updated - - -

Not you friendo. Matheney2k was trying to pull some cheeky guff from his pocket and edit your post to fit a narrative. I was simply correcting him

Oh ok ^.^ /salute*

[Sorcath]

They have been for years? lol

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The contrast with the environment is a decent point. I assumed the entire world would get a 'face lift' so to speak in terms of res and whatnot.

New title =/= Remaster.

A remaster would be like Crash Bandicoot for the PS4.

[Sylvaeres]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

You wanted classic. Stop trying to add new features into it. It's literally that simple. Guys like you probably won't make it past level 32 anyway, so why does it matter?

[Shammyrock]

On some level(s) the experience of Vanilla will be different, some personal, some software/hardware. Rather than Vanilla = Vanilla (which is impossible), better debate is what would violate the spirit of classic wow. Some QoL changes wouldn't imo

[Asotcha]

At the same time though, if you have all the inconveniences Vanilla came with, and no good reason to make things just ever so better (like AoE looting), you might turn off a few extra players that might have otherwise added to the community or lined Blizzard's wallet a bit more.

I see what you're saying, but all the same, I think that the gameplay itself is like a centrifuge that spins out all the people who aren't into it and will draw in those that are; I can't see anything like looting extra mobs being the straw that made someone stop doing it if they already had the patience and will to level and quest for a while.

Its been awhile since things were changed but tagging mobs worked differently then compared to today. If another player tagged it whether they were on your faction or not, then the mob became grayed out to you. One of the appeals of grouping up (besides the obvious strength-in-numbers) was that your group could tag everything together allowing quest mobs to share credit etc. I think that when aoe looting was added this system was modified somewhat and I think thats when we saw faction-tagging become allowed. That could change the face of farming especially since Vanilla was so grindy.

Now its been awhile since we got those changes on live so I could be a little off in my timing-- they could also just be nervous about the slippery-slope aspect of adding stuff, which is a valid concern.

[rewhaha]

You wanted classic. Stop trying to add new features into it. It's literally that simple. Guys like you probably won't make it past level 32 anyway, so why does it matter?

lawl what? guys like me?

[Asotcha]

I honestly hated that they changed the world with Cata, I would have rather them just give it all a facelift and update the graphics, but keep all the integrity of each zone intact. I would LOVE to see that happen with this. That alone could be the only selling point for me and it would be worth.

Garbage flight paths could become bearable if for no other reason than the view

True that---then we could also have Auberdine back in Darkshore, and Ashenvale without the fire from that damn phased quest. Not to mention Thousand Needles in its glory.

[IIamaKing]

I think you're the one smoking that OG Kush if you dream of AoE looting and the other shit. They will change NOTHING in that regard, have you seen the video of Ion Hazzikostas saying "vanilla is vanilla"? And also this:

"It means some of the inconveniences, it means some of the rough edges. That's not something we're looking to move away from. Is it the 2005 version or the 2006 version?"

They are not making a WoW classic version for the Legion players, how hard is that to understand? They want to get both types of players in, the ones that want to do everything with a click (they have the current game) and the ones that want to click 100 times or spend 1 hour to do the same shit (they will have a 15 years old design).

So no, don't "expect" any QoL changes AT ALL, unless you want to be severely disappointed.

We will see, I wont be disappointed though, cause I really dont give a fuck.

[RobertMugabe]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Your thread is pointless anyways, as Blizz announced that they will make it as close as possible. They even specifically mentioned that this means that the "rough edges" will stay.

And yes, dual spec is pretty major in endgame (at leat for some classes/combos), so adding it will break the game. The respecing aspect was a major part of the game and so was spec identity.

AOE looting is pretty pointless to add, as you'll never kill such a huge amount of mobs ever as you do on retail (even when you're grinding), so why bother adding a minor, yet pointless feature?


... I mean the thing is: If those features you're suggesting aren't major, a big deal, game breaking... whatever, then you can surely also live without them I guess.