[Movie] Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[Halyon]

I'm not going to give a point by point analysis of everything wrong with the movie for you. You aren't worth my time.

You contribute nothing to the discussion, you just throw shit, why should anyone else give you the time of day when you don't actually partake in a discussion?

[Slybak]

The weight of the top bombs would push the rest down, the lack of gravity and resistance would mean they would continue at their current trajectory.

Zero-G environments are sometimes referred to as "weightless" because weight is mass acted upon by the force of gravity.

The only valid explanation is that Star Wars has always relied on a WWII aesthetic for its space battles, even though it's never made sense from a physics standpoint.

[Halyon]

Zero-G environments are sometimes referred to as "weightless" because weight is mass acted upon by the force of gravity.

The only valid explanation is that Star Wars has always relied on a WWII aesthetic for its space battles, even though it's never made sense from a physics standpoint.

There was gravity inside the bomber, not outside, so if the bombs were dropped into no-grav, they won't stop, they'll continue on their path, because that's how no-grav works.

[Vakir]

No. I'm not going to discuss my dislike of the movie with an obvious fanboy of these last two films.

Aaaand I'm done.

We can never have a meaningful conversation because everyone is either a bitter, hardened cynic who likes nothing or a fanboy.

I feel so disconnected from nerd culture. Maybe I'm just at that age.

[Aurrora]

If they were utterly incompetent, the entire Rebellion wouldn't fit inside the Falcon.

That says more about the incredibly dumb moves the Resistance made than anything the First Order did. Manning the trenches with small arms when the goal of your operation is to take out the cannon that will let you safely hide behind the "big ass door" is not the smartest move.

The First Order meanwhile allowed themselves to be distracted by a single person, or a small number of people on three separate occasions.
1) Responding to Poe Dameron's obvious stalling tactic at the beginning of the film instead of blasting the Resistance flagship.
2) Kylo orders all of the air support to attack the Falcon, and seemingly all 10/15? Tie Fighters are destroyed in the attempt.
3) Kylo gets distracted by Luke's force projection and halts the entire advance to try to deal with it. He should have realized it was a projection when a sustained barrage of cannon fire did nothing to it.

The First Order is that player you have to constantly remind to fight on the flag in Arathi Basin.

[Mormolyce]

I think the story would have been far better and would make a lot more sense if Snoke didn't exist for sure, barring episode 9 developments. But two movies into this trilogy and it still feels like a better story would have been along the lines of Kylo rebelling against his parents/the light and ending up himself taking command of the fragmented Empire remnants, who may have been desperate for another all-powerful Sith overlord to show them the way. I can already think of about 37 better storylines than what we have now just going that route.

Maybe episode 9 will turn me around on that whole thing. But it doesn't feel like a great sign that a trilogy doesn't manage to pull anything together until the third film. A conclusion should be all about the climax, and not still trying to finish up the foreplay.

So far my score is: really strong start, horribly shaky middle, _____ ending.

I am concerned, to say the least.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Zero-G environments are sometimes referred to as "weightless" because weight is mass acted upon by the force of gravity.

The only valid explanation is that Star Wars has always relied on a WWII aesthetic for its space battles, even though it's never made sense from a physics standpoint.

This is something I realized watching TLJ. As a kid, I watched Star Wars before I understood things like 'gravity' and 'momentum'. When I got older, I knew that Star Wars physics weren't right, but it didn't matter, because that was Star Wars and it was just the way it had always been. Seeing Star Wars 'bad physics' in the theater with TLJ and TFA was a little jarring, but both times I just mentally shrugged, told myself it was Star Wars not hard sf, and kept enjoying the movie.

[Slybak]

There was gravity inside the bomber, not outside, so if the bombs were dropped into no-grav, they won't stop, they'll continue on their path, because that's how no-grav works.

True, but creating a (1940s style) bomb bay with its own dedicated gravity generator just to accomplish what liquid propellant would do is really overthinking it.

It fit within the established aesthetic and Rian Johnson thought it looked cool (it does) and helped add to the opening drama (it did). That's pretty much the only answer you or I need, and I for one am fine with it. I'm not Neil deGrasse Tyson. I don't need the night sky in Titanic to accurately reflect the exact position of the stars as viewed from the North Atlantic on April 14th, 1912.

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This is something I realized watching TLJ. As a kid, I watched Star Wars before I understood things like 'gravity' and 'momentum'. When I got older, I knew that Star Wars physics weren't right, but it didn't matter, because that was Star Wars and it was just the way it had always been. Seeing Star Wars 'bad physics' in the theater with TLJ and TFA was a little jarring, but both times I just mentally shrugged, told myself it was Star Wars not hard sf, and kept enjoying the movie.

This guy gets it.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

I think the story would have been far better and would make a lot more sense if Snoke didn't exist for sure, barring episode 9 developments. But two movies into this trilogy and it still feels like a better story would have been along the lines of Kylo rebelling against his parents/the light and ending up himself taking command of the fragmented Empire remnants, who may have been desperate for another all-powerful Sith overlord to show them the way. I can already think of about 37 better storylines than what we have now just going that route.

If there was no Snoke then there would be no tension with Kylo Ren. No question that he was going to the Dark Side. The films needed Snoke to provide for the possibility that Kylo would turn, and join Rey (or the Resistance in general) and there'd still be a BigBad. Once it was established that Kylo was NOT going to be redeemed, Snoke becomes extraneous and his death was awesome.

[Vakir]

No. I loved Rogue One, and I didn't hate TFA. Maybe you're just at whatever age makes your brain stop working correctly.

That's not what I mean. The statement there wasn't literal - I'm saying in discussions, people always point to someone as one or the other, and it's deeply unfair and turns things into a pissing contest.

I was not literally calling you a bitter, hardened cynic. I wish I could say the same for you calling me a fanboy. And now, apparently, my brain doesn't work correctly because I...liked a film and feel disconnected to the current state of the surrounding culture. Yeah, OK. :|

[Mormolyce]

He absolutely fucking was, though.

Over the shoulder lightsaber throw after a long, dramatic silence.
Graphically milking an alien while Rey looks disgusted, and then holding up the glass like "MMM, LOOKS GREAT, HUH?"
"Every word in that sentence you just said was wrong." (The first time)
Force plant-tickle.
"Jakku." "...OK, so that is nowhere."
Yoda staff slapstick.
Dusting off his shoulder after the bombardment on Crait.

Luke turned into a massive trickster mentor, just like Yoda did. Tons of his scenes were filled with comedy and a snarky charisma.

I didn't mind any of those. The lightsaber toss isn't just comedy, it's also a strong message to the audience that a) every theory you've read online is wrong, b) get ready for some unexpected plot turns and c) Luke's not kidding about this fuck the Force hermitage. I think that's great cinematic signalling, it's just a pity that the rest of the film... doesn't quite deliver on that.

Also no problem with dusting off his shoulder. That's also not just a joke, it's a bit of character and bait to Kylo.

The others are borderline, I suppose. The alien milk is certainly a weird choice.

[Halyon]

True, but creating a (1940s style) bomb bay with its own dedicated gravity generator just to accomplish what liquid propellant would do is really overthinking it.

It fit within the established aesthetic and Rian Johnson thought it looked cool (it does) and helped add to the opening drama (it did). That's pretty much the only answer you or I need, and I for one am fine with it. I'm not Neil deGrasse Tyson. I don't need the night sky in Titanic to accurately reflect the exact position of the stars as viewed from the North Atlantic on April 14th, 1912.

Sure, I can agree to that.

[Mormolyce]

He was already at the premiere and liked it. He already commented on the "deep canon" reference that would make die-hards "lose their shit" although I'm not really sure what that may've referred to other than Yoda.

My money's on the dice in the Falcon. That's "deep canon" alright lol.

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If there was no Snoke then there would be no tension with Kylo Ren. No question that he was going to the Dark Side. The films needed Snoke to provide for the possibility that Kylo would turn, and join Rey (or the Resistance in general) and there'd still be a BigBad. Once it was established that Kylo was NOT going to be redeemed, Snoke becomes extraneous and his death was awesome.

I feel like if you wanted to do a character like Snoke, it'd be way better to set him up in a different way. In fact I was kind of hoping that Snoke didn't even have outright Force powers, and that he was merely a manipulator.

[Vakir]

I didn't mind any of those. The lightsaber toss isn't just comedy, it's also a strong message to the audience that a) every theory you've read online is wrong, b) get ready for some unexpected plot turns and c) Luke's not kidding about this fuck the Force hermitage. I think that's great cinematic signalling, it's just a pity that the rest of the film... doesn't quite deliver on that.

Also no problem with dusting off his shoulder. That's also not just a joke, it's a bit of character and bait to Kylo.

The others are borderline, I suppose. The alien milk is certainly a weird choice.

I liked all of those. I'm just using them as examples because the individual in question didn't elaborate on what "stupid" humor consisted of vs. just straight-up "humor," anyone could characterize any of those as stupid or slapstick-y.

[Slybak]

I feel so disconnected from nerd culture. Maybe I'm just at that age.

There's parts of nerd culture that can't see the forest through the trees; that confuses errata for substance and spectacle for soul. TLJ is not for them. Hell, it even tries to tell them in the most non-confrontational way that they're missing out on some deep stuff by obsessing over trivia, and they're losing their shit.

I got to watch Carrie Fisher be resurrected and turned into a friggin' space angel on an IMAX screen. Twice. If I have to throw away my old West End Games sourcebooks because "GRRR THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS ACCORDING TO THIS CHART" in order to have that, so be it.

[Mormolyce]

I liked all of those. I'm just using them as examples because the individual in question didn't elaborate on what "stupid" humor consisted of vs. just straight-up "humor," anyone could characterize any of those as stupid or slapstick-y.

Mmmm. I feel like the whole complaint about humour is a bit wrong-headed; I actually walked out of the film pretty depressed.

I get that some jokes might've failed to land or were a bit out of place. But if anything I feel like the tone could've been lighter. Empire Strikes Back had some big emotional moments and was hardly all sunshine and roses, but it wasn't miserable. I didn't feel like the Rebellion was down to like 30 people, whose friends failed to show up and they're basically utterly fucked.

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There's parts of nerd culture that can't see the forest through the trees; that confuses errata for substance and spectacle for soul. TLJ is not for them. Hell, it even tries to tell them in the most non-confrontational way that they're missing out on some deep stuff by obsessing over trivia, and they're losing their shit.

I like the points in the film where it did that. I feel like it really let down its own message though, with several baffling decisions and crimes against writing. In my opinion, there are three main story threads in the film and 1/3 of them works consistently, the other two are write-offs.

So in the end it's a film that defies the hardcore nerd expectations, but also fails to shine enough in its own right to convince them that there's something better that they're missing out on.

[Slybak]

The others are borderline, I suppose. The alien milk is certainly a weird choice.

"Am I grossing you out? Am I making you want to leave yet?"

[Vakir]

I get that some jokes might've failed to land or were a bit out of place. But if anything I feel like the tone could've been lighter. Empire Strikes Back had some big emotional moments and was hardly all sunshine and roses, but it wasn't miserable. I didn't feel like the Rebellion was down to like 30 people, whose friends failed to show up and they're basically utterly fucked.

I think a big part of it is also the placement of the humor.

They frontloaded 90% of it. The porgs get most of their initial screentime in the first 30 minutes. Then we get slammed with Jedi Rocks, I mean Canto Bight, in the most jarring fashion, also in the initial chunk of the film.

And then hundreds of people die within like, 15 minutes with nary a bit of levity other than maybe "lul they hate that ship."

That's why I say - a lot of this is not me mindlessly praising the whole film. I appreciate the deconstructive elements so much that it becomes more than the sum of very flawed parts. The tone ABSOLUTELY backloads a lot of misery.

I also think a lot of it is just grief cycling. A childhood icon "died." People are going to feel a certain way.

[Mormolyce]

"Am I grossing you out? Am I making you want to leave yet?"

Yeah I got the point of it in the theater, but it's certainly going to be jarring to a lot of the audience. Who aren't really going to be onboard with it, because I don't think anyone was looking forward to gross old hermit Luke except as a shell to be stepped out of on the way to becoming hero Luke again.

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I think a big part of it is also the placement of the humor.

They frontloaded 90% of it. The porgs get most of their initial screentime in the first 30 minutes. Then we get slammed with Jedi Rocks, I mean Canto Bight, in the most jarring fashion, also in the initial chunk of the film.

Mmmm, I thought the whole casino scene was supposed to be the lull in between the big action scenes and that's why it had a somewhat lighter tone. Briefly.

Although really that's another major fault I have with the writing - it doesn't have proper tension points and lulls in the action for the audience to catch a breath. Instead the weird and contrived cruiser chase means that technically the entire film is one long drawn out battle scene. The film slows down in the middle to provide effective relief from the tension, but it's also trying to do the opposite - create a ticking clock as the First Order pursues the Resistance.

These aims conflict so you end up with a slow, boring action sequence or a relief sequence that doesn't feel right under the circumstances, so it doesn't work as either. How can we laugh at some alien shoving coins into BB-8 when the Resistance is being picked off minute by minute? Kind of reminded me of the mismanagement of tension in Mass Effect 3...

[Vakir]

Although really that's another major fault I have with the writing - it doesn't have proper tension points and lulls in the action for the audience to catch a breath. Instead the weird and contrived cruiser chase means that technically the entire film is one long drawn out battle scene. The film slows down in the middle to provide effective relief from the tension, but it's also trying to do the opposite - create a ticking clock as the First Order pursues the Resistance.

That bit is unfortunate, since the idea of an extended chase sequence spanning an entire film sounds kinda great on paper.

Imagine the Star Wars equivalent of Fury Road. The thing with Fury Road is, it had those down moments in the fog and in the Many Mothers portion that were lulls.

joebob, again - you are using images you didn't create rather than using actual words to make a point. Talk about why the movie was offensive and use specific examples. There are other people here who didn't like it or parts of it that make great points, like Mormolyce.