"go play retail then" is getting old

[ManiaCCC]

Their spec... like really? Besides SPriest, can you tell the difference between a Holy or Disc priest at a glance? How about which flavor of mage? Rogue? They're using swords! They must be Combat! Nope, Hemo. Daggers! Must be Assassination. Nope, Combat Daggers. Warrior? Hey, he must be Arms! Nope, 2H Fury. Paladin? Who cares. Scrub class.

I think he meant that you know that Johny is frost mage, while Amanda is disc priest or Mark is this awesome fury Warrior. And I have to agree this is quite important to actual character/player identity. I remember, when you knew people names and what they are playing. Not just shaman, but Elemental Shaman for example. This should stay in the game how it was.

And I know hardcore raiders were switching specs often but this community was really small, didn't had big impact overal - most people were known by their specs.

[denisgsv]

go

play

Retail

[Deleted]

Following the recent discussions i have a feeling that Blizzard can only lose in this whole thing as people are already deeply divided and there is no way to implement a Classic version that won't upset a part of the playerbase.

At this point I believe they dropped the "we are doing classic" without any further info on purpose. Just to show how goddamn impossible it is to decide what that actually is.

If they had waited and had come with a "we are doing classic, and here is how it looks" all the shit would have been directed at them.

[Akka]

let's be real here classic will never be 1.0 patch wow....ever....no one will want to play broken piece of crap. Classic wow will have a lot of elements of 1.0 wow but there will be modern QoL changes to it. People want the difficulty but not the stupid shit like oh i fell through the world because i tried to loot a mob through a tree.

most of this thread is arguing semantics.

Yeah, like comparing bugs with design

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On the AoE looting, I totally agree. Yes it didn't exist back then, but really where is the harm in it? The only harm I can potentially see is it speeds up looting, therefore gold increases will be faster. You can go pull an entire dungeon, AoE it down, and hit loot on one thing and be done with it instead of having to loot every single corpse one at a time, slowing you down. Overall, I agree, it doesn't really seem like it would make things that much faster though that it would kill the economy. I guess, at most, it would make cloth cheaper.

First, I agree it's not a BIG deal (and it wouldn't be a dealbreaker).
But yes, there is some harm. It's about immersion and general design philosophy. It's about keeping the game grounded and slightly simulating the world, where you have to grab the loot on each corpse one by one, as if you were pillaging through a battlefield. The end result is not the only thing to take into account, the feeling it gives count a lot too. It also participate in a general idea of slower pacing.

If we go just by result, the loot could simply directly appear in your bags after all. Having to loot the body is just an immersion factor. And I believe it's a small part in the general design philosophy of "more immersion-based" and "more simulation-based" that made Vanilla better than Legion.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Then why did they have a way in *GASP* vanilla to change your spec? lol, another flaw in logic from the "vanilla" crowd.

Spec swapping in vanilla was expensive as hell, to the point where reckless spec changes would bankrupt you- fast!

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Warlocks? Shadow priests? They were strong, especially the former.


A bit situational true, OP on WSG though.

They were very much viable. The fact that you think that lack of taunt is something that makes a tank nonviable is mind boggling and shows complete misunderstand of the way threat worked in vanilla.

That was a primary PvP spec for paladins.


Incomplete? The word you're looking for is not homogenized. What others? The point of vanilla was to spec for activity not "spec fits all" like today.



Just for clarification, you base in simulations, hearsay or what? Because that's not how it worked. At all.

I should add that I spoke with PvE in mind, what goes for PvP I wouldn't know (or care) about. I'm aware of certain pvp specs and druids flag running in WSG.

However for PvE the DoT specs simply didn't work because mobs had a limit of 8 (later 16) debuffs, if you added more then other debuffs would fall off. In 40 man raids that ment you had to pick what debuffs you wanted. Judgement of light, Sunder Armor, Shadow Priest shadowdamage debuff and others were prioritized over having 3 Affliction Warlocks and say a dps Shadowpriest.

Isolated in a 5 man as DPS or in the 10-20 man raids they were better but far from ideal and you were often ignored as a Priest or Warlock if you didn't play the "one spec". There's a reason why you don't see certain specs- ever- and that was because they didn't function in their own right or raid/mobs didn't allow them to reach their potential.

Andno, Prot Paladins weren't viable for raiding... The lack of taunt made them a huge risk, find any guild from back then that used one as one of their first 3-4 tanks...

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People say this because they want the true classic WoW experience, not classic with a bunch of shit added on. And I, personally, couldn't agree more with them.

I loved playing clothie back in Vanilla- doing a chain 7 quest long chain and get rewarded a Strength and Agility belt, so rewarding!

In all seriousness- keep what brought immersion and time heavy investments to the game, community was the key part of Vanilla. But things like class developement, itemizations, set bonuses (items in general) should be "remade" to allow more of the games classes and specs to be played in ALL parts of the game and not just "Ret is for PVP" bullshit.

[Zerroth]

In all seriousness- keep what brought immersion and time heavy investments to the game, community was the key part of Vanilla. But things like class developement, itemizations, set bonuses (items in general) should be "remade" to allow more of the games classes and specs to be played in ALL parts of the game and not just "Ret is for PVP" bullshit.

this would 100% kill the game

[Heladys]

We don't know yet. We will see what it will really be.

We don't know if it will be a baked potato either, but what we do know is what Blizzard has said, which is what I said. There's at least a fair possibility they may integrate some accessibility measures like the colorblind filter so long as it doesn't involve revamping the engine in any way, but no. You're not getting a gift-basket of preferred added features. They've been very clear about their intent.

[ManiaCCC]

We don't know if it will be a baked potato either, but what we do know is what Blizzard has said, which is what I said. There's at least a fair possibility they may integrate some accessibility measures like the colorblind filter so long as it doesn't involve revamping the engine in any way, but no. You're not getting a gift-basket of preferred added features. They've been very clear about their intent.

Again, you are speculating too much. You have no idea, nor I have. But if you want see what is in my basket, it is just simple bug fixes and new character models/modern graphics. And I think it is fair to assume, they will at least think about these.

[Vocah]

First, I agree it's not a BIG deal (and it wouldn't be a dealbreaker).
But yes, there is some harm. It's about immersion and general design philosophy. It's about keeping the game grounded and slightly simulating the world, where you have to grab the loot on each corpse one by one, as if you were pillaging through a battlefield. The end result is not the only thing to take into account, the feeling it gives count a lot too. It also participate in a general idea of slower pacing.

If we go just by result, the loot could simply directly appear in your bags after all. Having to loot the body is just an immersion factor. And I believe it's a small part in the general design philosophy of "more immersion-based" and "more simulation-based" that made Vanilla better than Legion.

Good job in convincing me that aoe loot should not be in Classic.

I am for an expensive dual spec option provided by the trainer so you still have to visit him to change spec.

What I haven't seen in this thread (I think) is raid frames, should Blizz leave it to addons or should the current ones be used?

[Strakha]

"I want vanilla but i dont want the inconvenience of vanilla" ok then you dont want vanilla cause inconvenience was about 90% of the content.

[anaxie]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

You arent going to kill mobs fast enough for aoe looting to be relevant

[Heladys]

Again, you are speculating too much. You have no idea, nor I have. But if you want see what is in my basket, it is just simple bug fixes and new character models/modern graphics. And I think it is fair to assume, they will at least think about these.

We have blizzard's statements, which say they're intending to deliver vanilla, with bugfixes.

I believe there is some fringe possibility they'll look at graphics type things, as I've said via colorblind filters, but things beyond that are problematic. View distance for one seems like a "why not?" until you realize they used that to their advantage in all their huge cheats assembling the old world, and there's no way in hell they're going to rebuild the world with modern fully-3d type models.

They are damn sure not going to implement the new models, or anything like all the texture updates or weather system updates or new water. Many of these things could simply not happen until the engine changed, and those engine changes forced other changes and so on and so forth. Most of the gameplay changes required new systems to be developed and old ones torn out, and that was grossly painful for them at the time due to how the game was assembled. It is not nearly as modular as people think even now, and it damn sure was not modular enough to support systemic plug-and-play in vanilla, which again is the starting point.

So if all you want to say is "we don't know", then sure, we don't know, other than blizzard's statement that it's vanilla with bugfixes. You have nothing to support the idea of more happening, but you have a damn fine ton of reasons to suspect you won't be seeing more happen.

[Charge me Doctor]

How on earth do you think they can even make a private server in the first place without altering the client? Changing the server list is literally altering the client...

I'm ignorant and you don't even know what gameplay means. okie.

Well then changing your ingame resolution is also altering of client because it changes .config file. Kek

[Akka]

Good job in convincing me that aoe loot should not be in Classic.

I am for an expensive dual spec option provided by the trainer so you still have to visit him to change spec.

Dual-spec is a much more harmful change, and this one could be a deal-breaker. Making changing your spec expensive has a large impact on the game, and removing the cost would change it A LOT, in a way going very much against the general feeling of Vanilla.

First, obviously, there is the gold sink aspect. It participated into making money something which was actually relevant (so many games have money being pointless, I liked that a gold piece was something somewhat pricey in WoW).

Much more importantly, though, it makes it pretty hard to switch spec, which has two main effects :
1) People tend to stick with their spec a lot more, giving them more importance.
2) Most of all, except for a (very) small minority of wealthy characters, people tend to keep just one spec, and that means they do everything with it. And that means they tend to tailor it to their own gameplay, which give validity to all the non-cookie-cutter spec. Taking a few DPS talents so your healer has an easier time to farm. Or conversely taking a few healing/tanking talent so that your DPS can do a better job as a tank. Or using some PvP aspects so you aren't a sitting duck outside instances. And so on and so on.

No dual-spec means that (save for the fringe players who had enough money/farming endurance to respec constantly) most players had their own favourite spec, and often made truly hybrid ones. This is something that would lose viability with dual-spec, removing a strong aspect of Vanilla.

What I haven't seen in this thread (I think) is raid frames, should Blizz leave it to addons or should the current ones be used?

Honestly, I actually found the basic raid interface much better than any add-ons I ever used. I was very annoyed when Blizzard removed it and used the new one. Yeah, sue me

[Torrasque]

This is hilarious. The vanilla community is still at each other's throats, and the purists hope to divide it even further. Driving their own following from Classic is the best way to kill classic as money is what talks towards any real product. If they actually get their way, they'll kill their own realization of fantasy having needed non-purists to get Blizzard to even pay attention to them in the first place, then shoving them aside after thinking that they got what they wanted. Truly "classic" toxicity there.

[ManiaCCC]

We have blizzard's statements, which say they're intending to deliver vanilla, with bugfixes.

Problem with your arguments is, they never said that. They said they want keep inconveniences in the game, but aside of that, everything is on table. Your whole post is "what I want in the game and I hope it will be there".

Buddy, I can't wait for Classic.. I read every single piece of interview, article, QA ..everything I found. They are saying same things again and again, "we want recreate Vanilla experience, but we are not ready to share any news, decisions were not made yet, but keep feedback coming, we are listening" but they never said what you think they said. Do you remember this big document, where people could vote, what they would like to see in Classic? Blues themselves shared that document and encouraged people to take part in it.

Did you read that document? There were many things you may not like, but if anything, there is tons of indication, they really want consider all of their options.

[Lumineus]

You arent going to kill mobs fast enough for aoe looting to be relevant

What about when I'm farming Scarlet Monastery for gold at max level because there are no daily quests in classic?

[Demithio]

Oh, this again. Were arguing about this again when no one really knows what decade rehash "vanilla" will even be released. It will be whatever Blizzard decides to make it, and the purists, the 'i want mods', and the 'those who wish for it to fail' crowd (you know who you are) will have to deal with whatever form it shows up in.

[AmethystRockstar]

Why should people who want the game as it was, cater to those who turned the game into something we resent?

[Wiedzemir]

Spec swapping in vanilla was expensive as hell, to the point where reckless spec changes would bankrupt you- fast!

That's the point!

I should add that I spoke with PvE in mind, what goes for PvP I wouldn't know (or care) about. I'm aware of certain pvp specs and druids flag running in WSG.

However for PvE the DoT specs simply didn't work because mobs had a limit of 8 (later 16) debuffs, if you added more then other debuffs would fall off. In 40 man raids that ment you had to pick what debuffs you wanted. Judgement of light, Sunder Armor, Shadow Priest shadowdamage debuff and others were prioritized over having 3 Affliction Warlocks and say a dps Shadowpriest.

Again. Spec for the activity. No homogenization. No "bring player, not class" anti-RPG bullshit. Because you can as well ask to be able to be a tank while playing a holy priest.

Isolated in a 5 man as DPS or in the 10-20 man raids they were better but far from ideal and you were often ignored as a Priest or Warlock if you didn't play the "one spec". There's a reason why you don't see certain specs- ever- and that was because they didn't function in their own right or raid/mobs didn't allow them to reach their potential.

No they weren't. And again. In raids. In god damn raids. Raid-or-die was not the mentality of vanilla and that's why I love it. This lobby-esque, epic pinata bashing simulator came later, with WoTLK.

In all seriousness- keep what brought immersion and time heavy investments to the game, community was the key part of Vanilla. But things like class developement, itemizations, set bonuses (items in general) should be "remade" to allow more of the games classes and specs to be played in ALL parts of the game and not just "Ret is for PVP" bullshit.

What you're asking for is caverns of times, by the sound of it. Not classic.