Genn doesn't care about the Alliance.

[Jester Joe]

Self defense against Greymane. Her actions against Odyn's people is a separate issue, one that Genn wouldn't have jurisdiction on. And the timing is off, anyway. He didn't know what Sylvanas was up to when he started shooting. He didn't know ANYTHING except that there were Forsaken ships present.

Odyn is an ally of the Horde and Alliance.

It is VERY much in both of their best interest to stay on his good side. And what self defense?

"The bad wolf kicked me and broke my lantern I was trying to use to enslave one of Odyn's with, also I shot him through his body with an arrow, totally self defense!"

Genn says that he's in the habit of killing what he stalks. They're operating on a report that says Sylvanas might be with the ships. He's the ranking military lord of the entire Alliance at the time, being only nominally below High King Anduin. Are you really going to tell me that Genn wasn't the one to give the order? Come on now...

Even if it was Rogers, Genn was still in overall command. He would bear responsibility. Besides, it's blatantly obvious that it was Genn's intent to hunt and kill Sylvanas. He even says so in front of the player and Rogers. There's no way you can possibly convince anyone that it was Rogers who gave the order.

Except he never said he was intending to, he said he HOPES the Horde does something.

Also, mind you, this whole "There is no reason" is false anyway-

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal
Something that is brought right to the Worgens.

<The officer looks down at what you're offering him and his eyes light up.>

Do you know what you have here? You might have just delivered some of the most significant intel of the campaign.

I will see to it personally that this gets into Lord Greymane's hands.

[SirCowdog]

Odyn is an ally of the Horde and Alliance.

It is VERY much in both of their best interest to stay on his good side. And what self defense?

"The bad wolf kicked me and broke my lantern I was trying to use to enslave one of Odyn's with, also I shot him through his body with an arrow, totally self defense!"

The bad wolf fired on horde ships without provocation, warning, or any other normally observed rules of engagement. All without evidence of anything, and based on a personal grudge, during a time when the entire planet is at stake.

Sorry, Genn has no defense for his actions. It would be like cops breaking into your house without a search warrant. Even if they found something, it wouldn't be admissible as evidence against you. Genn fucked up, plain and simple. Why? Because he operated on hate and put his own wants and desires ahead of the Alliance, and the planet itself.

This is the whole point I've been trying to make. Not whether or not Genn was justified after the fact. But the core of his character and how he makes his decisions.

Except he never said he was intending to, he said he HOPES the Horde does something.

Also, mind you, this whole "There is no reason" is false anyway-

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=40794/f...ueens-reprisal
Something that is brought right to the Worgens.

I'm sorry, he explicitly states his intentions. Horde ships were spotted 3 days ago, and Sylvanas is probably with them. Lets go stalk them and kill them under the pretense of "hunting for the aegis". Gimme a break. You're just not willing to admit that Genn went there to kill sylvanas for no reason other than revenge.

EDIT: Missed the quest link in the original post. This would seem to suggest that Greymane POTENTIALLY had some knowledge of Sylvanas' intentions. However, the timeline of events isn't clear. Players can easily do Stormheim before Azsuna, and there's no way to know if this was what caused Genn to start chasing her(although I think it's plausible).

However, let me point out that the worgen you give the intel to very specifically says to keep it to yourself. Suggesting that Genn didn't pass on the info to Anduin or anyone else. Again, putting his own personal agenda ahead of anything else. This only strengthen's my point.

[lockybalboa]

The bad wolf fired on horde ships without provocation, warning, or any other normally observed rules of engagement. All without evidence of anything, and based on a personal grudge, during a time when the entire planet is at stake.

Sorry, Genn has no defense for his actions. It would be like cops breaking into your house without a search warrant. Even if they found something, it wouldn't be admissible as evidence against you. Genn fucked up, plain and simple. Why? Because he operated on hate and put his own wants and desires ahead of the Alliance, and the planet itself.

This is the whole point I've been trying to make. Not whether or not Genn was justified after the fact. But the core of his character and how he makes his decisions.




I'm sorry, he explicitly states his intentions. Horde ships were spotted 3 days ago, and Sylvanas is probably with them. Lets go stalk them and kill them under the pretense of "hunting for the aegis". Gimme a break. You're just not willing to admit that Genn went there to kill sylvanas for no reason other than revenge.

EDIT: Missed the quest link in the original post. This would seem to suggest that Greymane POTENTIALLY had some knowledge of Sylvanas' intentions. However, the timeline of events isn't clear. Players can easily do Stormheim before Azsuna, and there's no way to know if this was what caused Genn to start chasing her(although I think it's plausible).

However, let me point out that the worgen you give the intel to very specifically says to keep it to yourself. Suggesting that Genn didn't pass on the info to Anduin or anyone else. Again, putting his own personal agenda ahead of anything else. This only strengthen's my point.

Rules of engagement? Hell yeah! Tell Sylvanas and Garrosh and other Horde warmongers how that works!

[Skoll Shorties]

Genn is indeed a big fat jerk who wants war. I wont be surprised if he's the one we're taking down akin to Garrosh.

[Skyduke]

He would lead the Alliance into hell with Varian if it meant he could get to go one on one with Sylvanas. He's advising Anduin to be a warmonger, just like him, so he can get revenge on the Bashee Queen.

Did y'all forget about when he built a big beautiful wall and ignored the pleas for help while Arthas was beating the crap out of the elves and humans of Lordaeron? And then when the Forsaken start beating his azz he went running back to Alliance, tail tucked between his legs, for sancturary.

People say that Sylvanas only cares about herself, but what about the man that's controlling your boy king? At least Sylvanas died fighting for her people and allies. Genn hides behinds walls and throws hissy fits when things don't go his way

In case you haven't noticed, Genn's character has been MASSIVELY adjusted by this point dude. Lol.

[Treno]

EDIT: Missed the quest link in the original post. This would seem to suggest that Greymane POTENTIALLY had some knowledge of Sylvanas' intentions. However, the timeline of events isn't clear. Players can easily do Stormheim before Azsuna, and there's no way to know if this was what caused Genn to start chasing her(although I think it's plausible).

I'd have to go digging to find it, but if I remember correctly, before they implemented level scaling tech and allowed you to do the 4 zones in any order, Aszuna was the first zone and Stormheim the third.

[SirCowdog]

Rules of engagement? Hell yeah! Tell Sylvanas and Garrosh and other Horde warmongers how that works!

Garrosh is dead. The Horde and Alliance were not at war when Genn attacked. They were working together to stop the Legion. Sylvanas had made no overt declaration or action to initiate war against the Alliance. Nor had she, at this point in time, expressed a desire to do so.

Genn might not trust the Horde, but that isn't justification for a unilateral assault on horde ships without warning, which commits the entire alliance back into war with the horde when it was literally the worst time to do so. And he did it for personal reasons: He hates Sylvanas. It's that simple.

And even if we consider the point about him being aware that Sylvanas is going to try and enslave Eyir: Really, it's none of Genn's business. Ultimately it would place the power in the hands of Sylvanas who was fighting against the Legion, instead of Odyn(who's a giant turd that we can't even trust).

But really what it boils down to is that Genn showed everyone that he'd rather peruse his own goals even when it was detrimental to the entire war against the Legion.

[lockybalboa]

Garrosh is dead. The Horde and Alliance were not at war when Genn attacked. They were working together to stop the Legion. Sylvanas had made no overt declaration or action to initiate war against the Alliance. Nor had she, at this point in time, expressed a desire to do so.

Genn might not trust the Horde, but that isn't justification for a unilateral assault on horde ships without warning, which commits the entire alliance back into war with the horde when it was literally the worst time to do so. And he did it for personal reasons: He hates Sylvanas. It's that simple.

And even if we consider the point about him being aware that Sylvanas is going to try and enslave Eyir: Really, it's none of Genn's business. Ultimately it would place the power in the hands of Sylvanas who was fighting against the Legion, instead of Odyn(who's a giant turd that we can't even trust).

But really what it boils down to is that Genn showed everyone that he'd rather peruse his own goals even when it was detrimental to the entire war against the Legion.

You saw what Sylvannas did to his people? You saw Garrosh's atrocities? Can you blame him for being hostile and wary? Things work both ways you know? The Horde have always been the ones starting conflict in recent times.

[Nirathiel]

Garrosh is dead. The Horde and Alliance were not at war when Genn attacked. They were working together to stop the Legion. Sylvanas had made no overt declaration or action to initiate war against the Alliance. Nor had she, at this point in time, expressed a desire to do so.

They might as well had been I mean even Anduin gave Genn opportunity to attack if the situation demanded it and as I said they stopped considering themselves allies the moment she ordered the retreat, and it's funny cause there were no horde troops around just Sylvanas' archers covering their flanks that's why Genn assumed Sylvanas betrayed them when the archers retreated (if you look at it again they even did it calmly like they just walked away instead of fleeing so it looked like it was a planned retreat in the Alliance/Genn's eyes)

Genn might not trust the Horde, but that isn't justification for a unilateral assault on horde ships without warning, which commits the entire alliance back into war with the horde when it was literally the worst time to do so. And he did it for personal reasons: He hates Sylvanas. It's that simple.

He stopped her from getting power that would've been a problem for him and the Alliance after the legion was dealt with, he just dealt with the lesser evil to focus on the bigger one how is that a bad thing?

And even if we consider the point about him being aware that Sylvanas is going to try and enslave Eyir: Really, it's none of Genn's business. Ultimately it would place the power in the hands of Sylvanas who was fighting against the Legion, instead of Odyn(who's a giant turd that we can't even trust).

But really what it boils down to is that Genn showed everyone that he'd rather peruse his own goals even when it was detrimental to the entire war against the Legion.

Except it is his business cause guess who will Sylvanas use that power against after the legion is defeated, but would you trust an enemy faction that just betrayed you and got your king killed with more power than what you have, fighting a common enemy? Besides how was Sylvanas detrimental to the war?

[SirCowdog]

You saw what Sylvannas did to his people? You saw Garrosh's atrocities? Can you blame him for being hostile and wary? Things work both ways you know? The Horde have always been the ones starting conflict in recent times.

How Genn FEELS about Sylvanas and the Forsaken isn't justification for starting a war. Garrosh was tried and found guilty. Sylvanas and the horde in general were not.

Whatever Sylvanas and the horde had supposedly done in the past is irrelevant. The focus was on working together to stop the Legion from destroying the entire freakin planet. But Genn decided to ignore that in favor of expending elite troops, an airship, an admiral, and one or more of the Alliance's champions(Players) on a personal vendetta.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do is beside the point. I'm simply showing that, at the time of the Legion expansion, Genn is a selfish bastard who would rather pursue his own agenda, even at the cost of expending precious resources that would be better used to protect the planet from the Legion.

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They might as well had been I mean even Anduin gave Genn opportunity to attack if the situation demanded it and as I said they stopped considering themselves allies the moment she ordered the retreat, and it's funny cause there were no horde troops around just Sylvanas' archers covering their flanks that's why Genn assumed Sylvanas betrayed them when the archers retreated (if you look at it again they even did it calmly like they just walked away instead of fleeing so it looked like it was a planned retreat in the Alliance/Genn's eyes)


He stopped her from getting power that would've been a problem for him and the Alliance after the legion was dealt with, he just dealt with the lesser evil to focus on the bigger one how is that a bad thing?



Except it is his business cause guess who will Sylvanas use that power against after the legion is defeated, but would you trust an enemy faction that just betrayed you and got your king killed with more power than what you have, fighting a common enemy? Besides how was Sylvanas detrimental to the war?

As though defeating the Legion was a given? All you're doing is agreeing with me. Genn did his own thing rather than help fight the more immediate threat. The fact that Sylvanas was doing something similar is irrelevant. We all know Sylv is shady as F. That's not the point.

[Nirathiel]

As though defeating the Legion was a given? All you're doing is agreeing with me. Genn did his own thing rather than help fight the more immediate threat. The fact that Sylvanas was doing something similar is irrelevant. We all know Sylv is shady as F. That's not the point.

Read what I wrote again before you go assuming.
But I like how you counter everything by saying what Sylvanas does is not relevant lmao.

[lockybalboa]

How Genn FEELS about Sylvanas and the Forsaken isn't justification for starting a war. Garrosh was tried and found guilty. Sylvanas and the horde in general were not.

Whatever Sylvanas and the horde had supposedly done in the past is irrelevant. The focus was on working together to stop the Legion from destroying the entire freakin planet. But Genn decided to ignore that in favor of expending elite troops, an airship, an admiral, and one or more of the Alliance's champions(Players) on a personal vendetta.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do is beside the point. I'm simply showing that, at the time of the Legion expansion, Genn is a selfish bastard who would rather pursue his own agenda, even at the cost of expending precious resources that would be better used to protect the planet from the Legion.

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As though defeating the Legion was a given? All you're doing is agreeing with me. Genn did his own thing rather than help fight the more immediate threat. The fact that Sylvanas was doing something similar is irrelevant. We all know Sylv is shady as F. That's not the point.

That is exactly the point. Are you saying after all the shit that was stirred by Sylvanas and the Horde in the past, Genn should continue to be a passive sucker and let his guard down against Sylvanas and the Hordies? Well, Horde fanboys would be jumping for joy for sure if that is the case. They'll be saying: "Let us continue to stir our shit, start more wars and hope the Alliance will be naive suckers like in the past few expansions! Great writing and logic Blizz. And so impartial."

[Pucek]

Oh, look, how creative... Another thread: "Alliance character [insert character] hates the Horde and that means he is evil incarnate and must be killed ASAP Blizz!" We went through it with Jaina and now we have Genn.

[SirCowdog]

Read what I wrote again before you go assuming.
But I like how you counter everything by saying what Sylvanas does is not relevant lmao.

It's not, because I'm not saying Sylvanas isn't shady. I'm showing that Genn is selfish and obsessed with revenge over anything else during the events of Legion. A lot of you guys seem to want to ignore that for some reason when BOTH OF THESE THINGS CAN BE TRUE AT THE SAME TIME.

Christ....
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That is exactly the point. Are you saying after all the shit that was stirred by Sylvanas and the Horde in the past, Genn should continue to be a passive sucker and let his guard down against Sylvanas and the Hordies? Well, Horde fanboys would be jumping for joy for sure if that is the case. They'll be saying: "Let us continue to stir our shit, start more wars and hope the Alliance will be naive suckers like in the past few expansions! Great writing and logic Blizz. And so impartial."

No, I'm saying that what Sylvanas was doing has no impact on the point being made. It's like saying "Bobby does crack, so that means my cleptomania problem doesn't matter."

Let's say, just to make this point absolutely clear, that Sylvanas successfully enslaved Eyir. How does that hurt the Alliance while the Legion invasion is ongoing? If anything it ensures the Forsaken will have a steady supply of troops to help fight the Legion. AFTER the Legion is deafeated Genn could make his case for going back to war with the Horde, and would probably be completely justified and absolutely correct to call out Sylvanas about it!

If your house is burning down, you don't choose that particular moment to start a fight with your roommates over their drug-dealing business(or whatever shady crap they've been up to). You put out the fire first.

I'm not saying Genn should be a "passive sucker and let his guard down". I'm saying that he chose specifically to ignore the threat of the Legion in order to put his own self-interest first. Why do I have to keep repeating this? Why do people keep assuming a list of things that I'm not saying?

The fact that Sylvanas was ALSO up to no good doesn't magically absolve Genn. They were BOTH in the wrong. What part about that isn't clear?

[TickTickTick]

You canthank the Night elves cause they introduced the Gilneans back to the Alliance. Actually, NEs are as much the hostile sobs as Gilneans are.

You can tell how Anduinn has changed since spending more time with Genn. Do you remember him in MoP? Especially while pleading to White Tiger in his Temple? How even in the Horde there is as much good as bad?


Also you cant use "Forsaken invaded Gilneas" argument, since they were not in the Alliance just yet. Forsaken invasion on Gilneas was not in any way move against the Alliance. Cant see any of you defending the Scarlet Crusade, who are also humans.
Basically, Gilneas finally got their lesson for turning away from the rest of the world (and old Alliance they were part of), when they got the beating from Forsaken. Miraclously the elves help them (why? I still have no idea), they join the Alliance and are like "They invaded our kingdom!! DO SOMETHING!!"
Yeah what were you doing during the 3rd war again? The Alliance helping out the Gilneas now is just spitting on the graves of people who fell in the 3rd war.

[rogueMatthias]

lol obvious bait thread

Honestly though, I think a lot of the arguments like these are caused by Blizzards terrible writing.

They continually declare that no side is "good" or "bad" and they're both the same but misunderstood...
The Tauren and Darkpear have always been a lot more neutral + noble and fit with this. But in game Sylvanas actions have gone WAY beyond anything we'd consider war crimes in the real world, the Orcs have fallen back to violent genocidal ways at every opportunity presented to them, and the goblins seem happy to sell out their people and alliances for a whiff of gold. (The Orcs were pretty neutral too until things like WOD and SOO completely undermined it.)

I always liked that about Goblins though, and always liked Sylvannas for her machiavellian tendencies (though she has got a little TOO moustache twirling recently). I can understand her fans for this.

What I DON'T understand is the fans that still hold the idea that she's not done anything wrong and it's all some irrational reaction from the Alliance and arguing that Genn has done so much worse than Sylvannas (he hasn't at all. He's done bad and stupid things but not chemical warfare, genocide and raising the dead bodies of his enemies yet).

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

"Your father told me before he died that you were a lil bitch of a disappointment if you didn't go to war."

i missed that scene. is that before he gives velen a wedgie or after he gropes jaina?

[Deleted]

So? He cares about his own people. He was right to not help Lordaeron against the Lich King. They would have died aswell.
Tbh I think the different Races should care more about themselves and therefore create more tensions inside the Alliance or Horde.
Tauren shouldn't be happy with the polution of Goblins or the forsaken. And the people of Stormwind should be indifferent to Gilneans.

Warcraft needs more Charakters who are following their personal interests and not just "the greater good".

[Shibito]

Always funny to see Sylvanas fanboys making threads like this one.

Genn isn't trying to subdue the Val'kyrs to create atrocities that disgusted even Garrosh.

Genn isn't mentionned by Varimathras in cryptic ways that highly suggest he'll be a raid boss later on.

Genn isn't attacking others with an army of undead forsakens for no valid reasons.

Genn isn't using the Alliance for his own profit, he was crying as Varian died while Sylvannas couldn't care less about Vol'Jin.

Love how alliance fanboys are always spouting bullshit

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You alliance people still got the opinion that the alliance can do no wrong, we DONT know what teldrassil burns first you are just assuming we have to wait for the novel from golden to see what happens

[Deleted]

People fighting over some of the worst writing the fantasy genre has ever seen. That's real bright. There's no real conflict and whatever is being served next expansion is just pandering to the fanboys of this puerile, inconsistent heap of trash that is lore.