Is arcane raid viable yet?

[Wvvtayy]

Seems it's been in the shitter all expansion, I hardly ever see any either. Just how terrible are they? It looks fun but that doesn't matter if it's really that much worse then frost and fire

[Skylarking]

There is like a semi megathread on front page right now about it if you wanna check it out.

[davesignal]

Seems it's been in the shitter all expansion, I hardly ever see any either. Just how terrible are they? It looks fun but that doesn't matter if it's really that much worse then frost and fire

Are you pushing for world first mythic kills? No.

Are you doing anything else? Yes.

The fact that you actually have to ask this question rather than being able to determine it yourself suggests that you don't play a game at a high enough level for the question to actually be relevant. That's not an insult; the vast, vast of players do not play the game at a high enough level for it to matter, and simply cargo cult whatever the top 0.05% of raiders do.

If you enjoy arcane, play it.

[Wvvtayy]

Are you pushing for world first mythic kills? No.

Are you doing anything else? Yes.

The fact that you actually have to ask this question rather than being able to determine it yourself suggests that you don't play a game at a high enough level for the question to actually be relevant. That's not an insult; the vast, vast of players do not play the game at a high enough level for it to matter, and simply cargo cult whatever the top 0.05% of raiders do.

If you enjoy arcane, play it.

Just because I'm not a world first raider doesn't mean I want to intentionally gimp myself. I like playing at the highest level I can.

[Nitros14]

It's good on Antoran High Command, Portal Keeper Hasabel, Defence of Eonar and Imonar the Soulhunter. Other than that pretty bad.

[Phookah]

Just because I'm not a world first raider doesn't mean I want to intentionally gimp myself. I like playing at the highest level I can.

The point they were making was that the grand majority of people don't play their favorite spec to 100% effectiveness, let alone whatever one is doing the "best" at the moment. It doesn't matter that frost is 2% higher than arcane if you can only play frost to 85% of its effectiveness to begin with.

In other words: If you aren't a mythic world first raider, it literally doesn't matter in the slightest because you likely have a bunch of other things you could improve to gain dps rather than change spec, and if you are a world first raider you already knew the answer to this.

[Alvito]

Just because I'm not a world first raider doesn't mean I want to intentionally gimp myself. I like playing at the highest level I can.

The idea that people not pushing the razers edge of progression need less advantages has always seemed off to me. The shittier the player or raid is the more of a bump they need, not the other way around.

[Deleted]

If you consider top-15 world viable, yes.

[Marrilaife]

The idea that people not pushing the razers edge of progression need less advantages has always seemed off to me. The shittier the player or raid is the more of a bump they need, not the other way around.

Yeah, but I'd say the advantage for the "shittier" player is whether a spec is easier to play and less punishing towards mistakes. It's less important what's top possible performer, if that spec is much harder to play. I've seen this in Tomb, lots of people jumped on sub rogue bandwagon and then had no clue how to play it, while for example assassination was simpler to play. However with mages I don't think frost is hard to play at a decent level, and it's also considered a "go to" spec for raiding, so it might be hard to prove to your raid leader it's worth playing something else. Anyway if you aren't bottoming the meters that should be enough of a reason to be accepted into at least 1 guild, and you don't need to be universally accepted, just find 1 place where you're fine. On my server there is a mythic raiding outlaw rogue, surv hunter, vengeance dh and whatever else is generally considered "non viable". But they have guilds that accept them.

There are no dps specs "completely garbage" no matter what doom and gloom is said, but there can be specs that can't cheese their way into high ranks, that are more punishing than the alternatives within the class, that are weak on specific boss and so forth. For example why play demo lock when other 2 specs of lock can do dps on 2 targets and the raid has a few council type of bosses?

[davesignal]

Just because I'm not a world first raider doesn't mean I want to intentionally gimp myself. I like playing at the highest level I can.

Then it sounds like you want to play an Afflock.

[Wvvtayy]

Then it sounds like you want to play an Afflock.

That's actually my main class / spec

[Nitros14]

That's actually my main class / spec

You're intentionally gimping yourself if you switch from afflock to anything else in the game.

[Synthium]

It's good on Antoran High Command, Portal Keeper Hasabel, Defence of Eonar and Imonar the Soulhunter. Other than that pretty bad.

How about Kin'Garoth?

[Nitros14]

How about Kin'Garoth?

Logs would suggest middle of the pack to bad, though the encounter favours arcane a little in that there's set 100% vulnerability moments every 2 minutes.

[Nasuuna]

Arcane falls between Fire and Frost

More Aoe/cleave than Frost, less then Fire

More ST then Fire, less then Frost

Issue is most fights are either all aoe/ckear or all ST so just play those 2.

[Sithalos]

TL;DR:
No.

[The Archmage]

After an extensive testing, i can fairly say that yes, it is viable. It is far better then it was during ToS, and can definetly be played in Antorus on all difficulties. That said, the spec revolves around short vital burst phases that cannot be screwed nor delayed, and provides roughly the same numbers the other 2 specs can dish out.

However, the other 2 specs can do so much more easily and with less risk of mechanics messing with your results.

All in all, it's a spec that requires much more preparation and better understanding of the fights you are facing, but can generally provide good results. So if you are invested in that kind of effort, you can definetly kill bosses with it and be satisfied of you skada/recount/whatever meter you are using. Mostly because everyone expects you to be totally crappy.

[Soulwell]

Arcane falls between Fire and Frost

More Aoe/cleave than Frost, less then Fire

More ST then Fire, less then Frost

Issue is most fights are either all aoe/ckear or all ST so just play those 2.

Fire doesn't come even close to arcane on AoE, 2/3 target cleave possibly.
Outside of a frost Mage having an absolutely insane pull, 99% of the time I'm either miles ahead of them or even.

After an extensive testing, i can fairly say that yes, it is viable. It is far better then it was during ToS, and can definetly be played in Antorus on all difficulties. That said, the spec revolves around short vital burst phases that cannot be screwed nor delayed, and provides roughly the same numbers the other 2 specs can dish out.

However, the other 2 specs can do so much more easily and with less risk of mechanics messing with your results.

All in all, it's a spec that requires much more preparation and better understanding of the fights you are facing, but can generally provide good results. So if you are invested in that kind of effort, you can definetly kill bosses with it and be satisfied of you skada/recount/whatever meter you are using. Mostly because everyone expects you to be totally crappy.

This, contrary to what everyone seems to believe arcane is probably the hardest raiding spec in the game. Has quite a bit of upsides for playing it correctly but any minor mistake during any of your bursts pretty much turns you into a useless lustbot.

[D3athsting]

How about Kin'Garoth?

Not viable because you have to move out from pools when adds pop and you "should" burst, you have to run from beam and dodge big balls during the fight, arcane doesn't handle movement fights well also because of being rune-dependant

[davesignal]

This, contrary to what everyone seems to believe arcane is probably the hardest raiding spec in the game. Has quite a bit of upsides for playing it correctly but any minor mistake during any of your bursts pretty much turns you into a useless lustbot.

This is incorrect, but only because you're speaking too broadly.

Arcane is, in terms of actual physical execution, much easier than most specs-- it's one of the lowest APM specs in the game, and I love it for that. Some people see this and think it's a low-effort spec. But, in terms of actual encounter knowledge, decision making, and situational awareness, it's quite high. Arcane rewards planning and prediction, unlike other specs which require little forethought but otherwise possess high mechanical requirements.

Most people playing Arcane at a high level probably play it for exactly that reason: it rewards planning ahead and proper resource management, not high-precision button mashing.. which is why it's one of the least played specs in the game.