Is it cheap to want to split or pay each for themselves on dates?

[Lane]

My friends don't keep track of invites. We've always sort of operated on whoever's doing the best financially. A couple of them in the tech field make 3x the income I do, so paying an extra $15 at dinner is nothing to them. When I was dating my now spouse we started alternating who paid for dinner. We both made about the same at the time, so this kept either one of us from being financially overburdened.

Ive watched my mother wither away to cancer as well, it is rough. Sorry you had to go through that with your uncle.

I'm not saying its easy or that everyone can do it. But if the person I decided to spend my life with gets sick I'm not bouncing because it will be hard. Id never forgive myself and be miserable anyway.

I was a caretaker to my mother for 3 years. She was legally blind and had arthritis, so I basically had to do everything for her. We went from being best friends to my highly resenting her. When she finally passed I didn't even grieve, I was so emotionally drained from the years leading up to it I felt dead inside. This feeling lasted years after she was gone before I finally started to miss her and regretted not having the opportunity to repair our relationship.

I'm sure it's different for everyone, but that situation was absolutely toxic for both of us and if it happened again today I suspect the result would be the same.

[Player Twelve]

Which in the west is mostly done by other women.

Few compared to the amount of men who says they don't want to be with a woman who have had a lot of sex partners in my experience.

[SilverWolf26]

Which in the west is mostly done by other women.




The percentage of women that expect the guy to pay at least on first dates (with varying degrees of intensity) is much higher than the percentage of women that self-identify as feminists. From what I read (and from what I recall from what I read, it's been a while) the former is up to 80%. While the latter is less than half. But since the amount of women who don't want the guy to pay is still smaller than the amount of self-identified feminists, there has to be quite a bit of an overlap between women who want equal rights and those who expect men to pay. Unless a significant amount of self-identified feminists don't know what feminism is about.

I would disagree with both of your statements, as my experience says something otherwise. I'm not going by something I've read; I'm basing my statements on personal experience. It's not just women that denigrate other women who have sexual experience and prowess at a young age, how many men won't marry the good time girl? How many cracks are made about how many times a woman has been ridden - by men? Saying that it's mostly women just isn't correct.

Second, I would require a source for any such study that stated anything about feminists and who pays for what. It's also been my experience that stated feminists not only prefer to pay, but also and often prefer to be the one asking someone out. At the very least they'll ask the man they're dating how he feels about it and make arrangements beforehand. The double standard being cited is one that only rears its ugly head when a woman is using a cause she doesn't really believe in to take advantage of someone else.

It's also not a double standard if the man asking her out is happy to pay. That's his choice.

Lastly, social status and looks do play a big part in this, regardless of sex. If a 7 asks out a 10, they are usually thrilled to pay - it doesn't matter which gender is in which role.

As I previously stated, the whole "us vs. them" is rubbish. When you view the opposite sex that way, no matter which gender you belong to, you sabotage your own relationships.

[Deleted]

When the lady wants to pay her share it is the end. If she accepts your invitation its the beginning. simple .

[Deleted]

No, they don't.

If Bob has 2 apples and 3 pears and Mary has 3 apples and 2 pears, she wants 3 pears, but she'll say nothing of the apples. That's what feminism has ALWAYS been.

She will try to get the government to take 2 pears from Bob and give it to her. Why? Because Bob had more before, now she should have way more.

[Deleted]

I paid for me and my current girlfriend's first date, and I'd say whoever invites the other(s) pays. Oftentimes that happens to be the guy because few women ever make the first move.

Can't say I mind that to be honest, sure it's always a nice ego boost to feel desirable, but at the same time I don't mind being the one who woos, after yall are in a relationship, then sure, split, pay for the other, get payed for, or pay for yourself away!

However if it's a mutual agreement between both people, or everybody to go out to eat, everyone should either pay for themselves, which is preferable or split the bill.

[Molis]

It's no worse than a guy getting a high five for getting laid when the woman is slut shamed and outcast.

Most of the people I know, and have been with over the years, paid if they asked me out. It's polite. If we decided to just go somewhere, we bought our own food. And, yes, when I asked a guy out, I paid. I mentioned it before but I sometimes picked up a steak dinner for my future husband on the way home from work.

It really just depends on the person. Have a conversation before you go out, it works wonders.

- - - Updated - - -

PS... it's also been my experience that women who want equal rights don't expect you to pay. Making assumptions like that just makes you look like an ars.

I am good with the whoever invites pays.

I am not fine with women looking for meal hand outs or calling someone cheap because they did not pay.
I am not fine with women asking for equal pay and right out of one side of their mouth then demanding a man pay out of the other side.

Like you said not often seen with true feminists. Usually seen with loads of women that want the benefits of feminism and also a patriarch society.

[Babadoo]

It would be considered cheap 30 years ago, but now with all the equality fuck golddigging chicks. They can get a job and pay for themselves.

[Mister K]

When me and my gf go out, half the times we splitt. Fuck paying £40GBP+ myself, we go out like 2-3 times a month lol.

[Mehrunes]

I would disagree with both of your statements, as my experience says something otherwise. I'm not going by something I've read; I'm basing my statements on personal experience. It's not just women that denigrate other women who have sexual experience and prowess at a young age, how many men won't marry the good time girl? How many cracks are made about how many times a woman has been ridden - by men? Saying that it's mostly women just isn't correct.

So you're going by anecdotal evidence instead? As for the first subject, men benefit from promiscuous women. Women, not so much. They create extra competition, especially if other don't want to conform to promiscuous behavior themselves. Shaming is a tool of social control used against behaviors, ideas, etc. that are considered undesirable. Now who's more likely to find something undesirable? The group that benefits from it, or the group that does not? And I didn't say men don't do it. Also, since when is not wanting to marry someone "shaming"? Is not wanting to marry a woman with kids maternity shaming?

Second, I would require a source for any such study that stated anything about feminists and who pays for what. It's also been my experience that stated feminists not only prefer to pay, but also and often prefer to be the one asking someone out. At the very least they'll ask the man they're dating how he feels about it and make arrangements beforehand. The double standard being cited is one that only rears its ugly head when a woman is using a cause she doesn't really believe in to take advantage of someone else.

Where have I said the study involved both feminists and who pays for what? I explicitly said that it talked about women in general. I also explicitly compared it with the amount of feminists, using phrasing (i.e. how there is an overlap) that rather clearly indicates these were two separate data points.

Back on topic, here's one: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_3749104.html Not what I was thinking of, but I can't find it right now and this will do anyway. 43% don't offer to pay at all, further 39% expects the man to refuse. 44% are outright bothered when men expect them to not be leeches. And 58% of women admit that men pay for most expenses even in long term relationships. Another thing to notice is the disparity between what men say and what women say. Shame is one of the primary reason people lie in surveys, so chances are the percentages are even higher. And since even this article talks about how things get less unequal the older the relationship, I think this corroborates my earlier claim of majority of women being bothered by this at the first dates. It''s certainly above 58%, i.e. majority.

And while the amount of women identifying as feminists varies in reporting, lately I've been seeing the "a bit less than half", I rolled with that. So, again, since the amount of women that don't have a problem with men not paying all at first dates is very likely to be smaller than the amount of women who identify as feminists (and as such are very likely to want equal rights), there have to be women wanting equal rights that belong in the other category when it comes to paying, i.e. women who do have a problem with men not paying all at first dates. Hell, there's also the fact that the amount of women self-identifying as feminists is still much lower than women who believe in women's equality (because logic), with the latter being the stark majority of US women. So there just has to be overlap, unless there's more than 100% women in women population of US. And those women who are in that overlapping area are hypocrites and are engaging in a double standard.

As for asking someone out, that's simply bogus. Feminists number in double digits at lowest (then there's the majority of women believing in equality of the sexes even if some don't consider themselves feminists). There's no culture on Earth aside maybe some native tribes (and even then it'd be the minority of them that's not patriarchal) where women make for such a significant amount of people doing the first move. Because women not doing that stems from simple biology. Women suffer higher cost of reproduction. They are naturally more picky. Which in turns puts the onus on making the first move on men.

It's also not a double standard if the man asking her out is happy to pay. That's his choice.

Given how the double standard that was discussed was about attitude of some women, how men choose to react to that bears no weight on whether it's a double standard or not. Let's look it at general perspective and not from the perspective of women who are hypocrites about equality. The idea in general is still sexist and reduces men to living wallets and puts women on a pedestal as special snowflakes that are entitled to being pampered. Does the fact some men are OK with that change that? Swapping genders, let's use something I already mentioned. Stark majority of women believe in equality of the sexes. But some don't. Would that make the men who treat them as inferior subhuman not sexist either? It's her choice after all.

As I previously stated, the whole "us vs. them" is rubbish. When you view the opposite sex that way, no matter which gender you belong to, you sabotage your own relationships.

How is that relevant to what you replied?

[Forgottenone]

Gotta say some of the women responses seem to be pretty gold digger like ~_~ While I have always paid for every date I go on and I will always do it I believe women should always offer to help pay. If the man accepts then you help, but if he declines leave it at that. If a women never pays or offers to pay what good are you? There are millions of other women, just as beautiful if not more so, just as interesting if not more so. So what makes YOU special? When you go on a date you are basically showing why you would want someone to date you. Being a cheap/not offering simply shows you are either living in an outdated era or you are a gold digger ~_~ If you can't be bothered to offer to help pay for a nice night out what else can't you be bothered to do in the future?

Anyways for me one of my red flags for a women is if she at least doesn't offer to pay. If she does, I'll politely decline but she is good in my books and definitely worth taking out on a second. Gotta weed out them thots!

[Deleted]

You invite, you pay.

Such a bs statement. Men are socially bullied into being the ones to initiate dates, so what you are saying is men SHOULD pay.

[Captain N]

Such a bs statement. Men are socially bullied into being the ones to initiate dates, so what you are saying is men SHOULD pay.

And you say he made a BS statement....

Men allow themselves to be put into these situations and instead of actually discussing it with a potential partner they assume they're expecting to handle everything. You realize that the first date or meet since this is the world of Internet Dating sets the standard for the relationship. Men really need to understand that they have the power to say No too...instead of pushing odd narratives like that where they feel they're bullied into throwing money at women for attention.

[Deleted]

And you say he made a BS statement....

Men allow themselves to be put into these situations and instead of actually discussing it with a potential partner they assume they're expecting to handle everything. You realize that the first date or meet since this is the world of Internet Dating sets the standard for the relationship. Men really need to understand that they have the power to say No too...instead of pushing odd narratives like that where they feel they're bullied into throwing money at women for attention.

Asking on the first date is what I said further up, doesn't change the fact that most women would take offense to it and expect to be payed for BECAUSE she's a woman.

I agree that the one who asked should be the one to pay is a solid way of doing things, but the dating scene heavily skews towards men asking women out which means the game is rigged in the first place.

Saying men allow themselves to be in this situation is a massive over generalisation of the situation. It's the standard of most living things, the female has the final say on who she mates with, the men are forced to compete against one another, which means she has the advantage.

[Ethris]

I'm big papi talking mad flow

^Everything this guy says is right.

[Captain N]

Asking on the first date is what I said further up, doesn't change the fact that most women would take offense to it and expect to be payed for BECAUSE she's a woman.

And if that type of woman isn't what you're looking for you always have the ability to say No. As I covered previously I split my first date with my wife because neither of us knew each other from a hole in the ground (Internet Dating) when we first met. By splitting the bill it avoided the issue noted several times in this very thread about men who expect sex when they pay for a date or like you're saying women who feel obligated to a free night out because they're female.

This is something that can be easily handled by communicating with the person beforehand, and if their response is not something you agree with you are allowed to tell them no.

[Deleted]

And if that type of woman isn't what you're looking for you always have the ability to say No. As I covered previously I split my first date with my wife because neither of us knew each other from a hole in the ground (Internet Dating) when we first met. By splitting the bill it avoided the issue noted several times in this very thread about men who expect sex when they pay for a date or like you're saying women who feel obligated to a free night out because they're female.

This is something that can be easily handled by communicating with the person beforehand, and if their response is not something you agree with you are allowed to tell them no.

I agree, but that's not the reality of the situation. You got very lucky there and I'm very happy for you, but you're using anecdotal evidence.

[Captain N]

I agree, but that's not the reality of the situation. You got very lucky there and I'm very happy for you, but you're using anecdotal evidence.

I understand it's an anecdote but what I'm saying is men have the ability to say No if they believe they are responsible for always paying for a date. That being said there are a number of men out there who feel their masculinity is challenged if they aren't in the provider role at all times. As if the world will end if someone else handles the finances for awhile.

[Deleted]

Putting this within a gender perspective it is one of the few inceptives the average man has to actually engage on a private intercouse with a woman. It´s one of those matters where men are just no equal and probably will never be for the time being. The social construct of being that the man has to ask the girl out its something I don´t see femmenist trying to fix at the momment so women are more inclined to actually ask men out. I´m not saying its the norm but, lets be honest, how often do you see women asking men out?.

[Deleted]

I understand it's an anecdote but what I'm saying is men have the ability to say No if they believe they are responsible for always paying for a date. That being said there are a number of men out there who feel their masculinity is challenged if they aren't in the provider role at all times. As if the world will end if someone else handles the finances for awhile.

I get what you are saying, it's basically a free market argument, which I agree with to a certain extent. The problem is that the media/culture glorifies this kind of gender role, while also saying gender roles are sexist. It's hypocrisy at its finest. You are correct in that the only real way to combat this is to be selective with your dates, but the plates are stacked against you. Trying to find a needle in a haystack at this point.