Why will Mage tower and Mythic Plus appearances be Unobtainable post Legion?

[Jester Joe]

I think you missed the point I what I was saying: If Blizzard is going to do some sort of Skill-based challenge that requires dev time ANYWAY, there's no loss(and potentially dev time is SAVED) if they upgraded and modernized the existing challenges to be challenging under the current expansion INSTEAD.

Basically we have the number one complaint being that there's never enough stuff to do in an expansion, but we also have all this abandoned content just lying around. Kill two birds with one stone. Stop promoting special snowflake status and start making a better game.

No, I'm not missing it.

If they make a skill-based challenge right now, they can tune it around the current class design, and not have to worry about 5 years down the road if it's still viable.
It's far quicker to make a challenge based on the now, rather than "how can we tune this further down the road" and "We have to spend dev time from the next expansion to make sure this is still balanced".

It's going to take more dev time to ensure its tuned/balanced down the road, rather than just balancing it for the now and calling it a day.

And for your hate of prestige, you haven't given a single reason why it's actually bad for the game that it IS time limited. Other games reward players for playing it and dedication, why shouldn't WoW?

[xindralol]

mythic + is just a skin not a whole appearance correct?

I kinda agree with OP though especially for druids it's REALLY hard to one up the bear/cat forms next expansion so it would be odd if something that's vastly better/cooler than anything that can be obtained in bfa would be locked.

[AcidicSyn]

As someone who does not have one of every class maxed, and is actually specifically reserving some classes to level as an allied race, I don't like that I won't bee able to get these skins on those characters.

With that said though; others have actually given you a perfectly valid reason as to why removing accessibility to this content is beneficial to the game. Mocking it by spelling it with 1337 speak doesn't make it any less valid no matter how loudly or passionately you, I, or anyone else for that matter argues against it.

The fact is this is done in order to provide the players who are successful in completing these challenges while the content is current with a level of prestige, one that is not obtainable simply by repetition. Look at the Ashes of A'lar, when the content was current, and for quite some time after in fact, these were rare, and when a player was seen riding A'lar, it carried, that's right, prestige. Now? That prestige is all but gone, farming A'lar takes nothing more than time, the drop rate has been significantly reduced, but it is still obtainable by any player.

Mind you, for me this is how a prestige item SHOULD function. Prestige, by its very nature, fades over time and in my own personal opinion; items like these should be no different; the prestige of obtaining that item while the content is current should be precisely that, while the content is current, or otherwise remains difficult; those who posses it enjoy the prestige of having it. Over time, the object in question becomes more obtainable, and the prestige fades; replaced by whatever the new shiny of the next expansion is, and the cycle repeats. So what if someone acquires the Archy Moose 4 expansions later, by then no one cares and the prestige has faded; replaced several times over by new prestige items.

While I personally think that is very reasonable, and how anything which has the benefit of prestige should work. This does not, in any way invalidate the reason being given in support of why it's NOT done. You may not like it, I may not like it; and perhaps folks could have a discussion on why they do or do not like it. But yelling loudly that "Because prestige" isn't a valid argument is silly and only serves to hurt your argument.

[AcidicSyn]

mythic + is just a skin not a whole appearance correct?

I kinda agree with OP though especially for druids it's REALLY hard to one up the bear/cat forms next expansion so it would be odd if something that's vastly better/cooler than anything that can be obtained in bfa would be locked.

I honestly expect Blizzard to take a more specialized approach when it comes to the druid forms. I highly doubt they will not add additional ways for druids to change the way their forms look

[SirCowdog]

No, I'm not missing it.

If they make a skill-based challenge right now, they can tune it around the current class design, and not have to worry about 5 years down the road if it's still viable.
It's far quicker to make a challenge based on the now, rather than "how can we tune this further down the road" and "We have to spend dev time from the next expansion to make sure this is still balanced".

And for your hate of prestige, you haven't given a single reason why it's actually bad for the game that it IS time limited. Other games reward players for playing it and dedication, why shouldn't WoW?

Creating an entirely new challenge from scratch is quicker than re-using already existing resources? What?

As for reasons why it's bad for the game to make it time-limited: I literally just did in the post you quoted. But here's a comparison.


Regularly updated/rebalanced challenges:
Giving players more things to do.
Not screwing new players who might otherwise get attached/invested if given a chance at these things.
Promoting continual skillful play instead of just overpowering with gear.
Less dev time used, less content gone to waste.
Community built around this aspect of the game instead of being a sideshow.

vs:

Limited time challenges:
Special snowflake prestige.


I'm not saying that the prestige of limited time items is outright bad. It's obviously GREAT for the people who have it, and it clearly gets people to log in now rather than later. But the point I'm trying to get across is that it could be handled SO much better. Limited time challenges and rewards only serve a short term benefit, but at the cost of long-term quality and community. It's wasteful, disposable content with a planned limited lifespan.

Think about all the work Blizzard is putting in to making the leveling up process through old content more relevant, through scaling tech and remastering the flow of previous expansions. If they're willing to do something on that scale, retooling something like the MoP CMs or Mage Tower challenges should be a drop in the bucket. This is especially valuable because it promotes playing alts and giving them something to strive for since each class has its own appearances.

They've also shown us that they're willing to try and update old content which was popular via Timewalking. While not a perfectly scaled situation, it's just one more example of re-using content instead of abandoning it. There's a LOT of value to be had from this stuff with a relatively small amount of work. And what's the counter argument? Prestige? Special Snowflake? Too bad so sad, noob, you'll never get this stuff?

And not to mention that Blizzard has already shown that they're perfectly willing to crap all over player "Prestige" by releasing skins in the BMAH with nothing more than gold(the easiest thing to acquire in the entire game)!

I simply think the pros VASTLY outweigh the cons for this type of thing. I just don't feel that there's enough value in limited time availability to justify it.

[Jester Joe]

Creating an entirely new challenge from scratch is quicker than re-using already existing resources? What?

So you'd rather one challenge be repeated nonstop rather than new ones?

As for reasons why it's bad for the game to make it time-limited: I literally just did in the post you quoted. But here's a comparison.

Regularly updated/rebalanced challenges:
Giving players more things to do.

It's a one time event, you complete it, you're done. It would be akin to asking for Blizzard to repeatedly increase old raids/dungeons rather than adding new ones. It hardly gives "more to do" in the long run.

Not screwing new players who might otherwise get attached/invested if given a chance at these things.

There's a ton in game already that they do have/can get attached to. I'm not less likely to play now because I can't get the black war bug or Corrupted Ashbringer.

Promoting continual skillful play instead of just overpowering with gear.

This doesn't require reusing/retuning old scenarios.

Less dev time used, less content gone to waste.

it doesn't take "less dev time", I already addressed this. Right now, devs are working nonstop on new content for BfA. Now imagine if every time they released a new challenge, they had to take a few of those devs and say "Alright, you're stuck making sure this old content can be up to snuff for the new expansion".

That's what would have to happen with your idea, rather than "Hey, go create a new challenge for the new expansion" which actually gives more to do for long term players AND new players.

Community built around this aspect of the game instead of being a sideshow.

no Community is going to be built around Mage Tower challenges or one off situations. Hell, there's no proving ground community, and there's no Brawler's guild one either. They're one player situations, so they don't allow for "community". What you're looking for is the new Mythic+ system, which is still being carried over.

Limited time challenges:
Special snowflake prestige.

You're just being dishonest at that point, and downplaying the hell out of whatever anything disagreeing with your point says.

I'm not saying that the prestige of limited time items is outright bad. It's obviously GREAT for the people who have it, and it clearly gets people to log in now rather than later. But the point I'm trying to get across is that it could be handled SO much better. Limited time challenges and rewards only serve a short term benefit, but at the cost of long-term quality and community. It's wasteful, disposable content with a planned limited lifespan.

Every expansion is disposable content, it's what the game has been from the start. And whether you like it or not, there's players much like me who enjoy knowing there's something that I have to work on for THIS expansion, rather than "oh, it's always going to be there".

Think about all the work Blizzard is putting in to making the leveling up process through old content more relevant, through scaling tech and remastering the flow of previous expansions. If they're willing to do something on that scale, retooling something like the MoP CMs or Mage Tower challenges should be a drop in the bucket. This is especially valuable because it promotes playing alts and giving them something to strive for since each class has its own appearances.

They took new tech they used in Legion and applied to everything, which is a massive quality of life change. It also hardly requires balancing aside from making sure stuff doesn't suddenly one shot, needs to stick to a similar ratio.

Meanwhile, CMs/Mage Tower challenges would require far more fine tuning to ensure the original challenge is preserved, and that if classes had certain abilities taken away, the challenge is reworked for that, which becomes even harder when multiple classes have the same challenge, so let's say if they took away paladin's interrupt for some reason, now they'd have to take away the interrupt mechanic of the Fel Queen scenario, which trivializes the challenge all together.

They've also shown us that they're willing to try and update old content which was popular via Timewalking. While not a perfectly scaled situation, it's just one more example of re-using content instead of abandoning it. There's a LOT of value to be had from this stuff with a relatively small amount of work. And what's the counter argument? Prestige? Special Snowflake? Too bad so sad, noob, you'll never get this stuff?

Yet again, those aren't single player scenarios though. Even if x class loses y, z class should still have y, or maybe they gained y.

And not to mention that Blizzard has already shown that they're perfectly willing to crap all over player "Prestige" by releasing skins in the BMAH with nothing more than gold(the easiest thing to acquire in the entire game)!

Because an old tier that was removed from the game with Wraths' release is really the same?
And no, gold isn't the "easiest" thing to acquire in the game.

I simply think the pros VASTLY outweigh the cons for this type of thing. I just don't feel that there's enough value in limited time availability to justify it.

And with all due respect, Blizzard and many others disagree.

[SirCowdog]

So you'd rather one challenge be repeated nonstop rather than new ones?

The entire game is based around repeating content. People play alts, they switch specs, new players come into the game. Absolutely I think it's better for one challenge to be updated rather than having it simply thrown away after a relatively short amount of time.

We see this concept reinforced with Timewalking, M+, multiple difficulties of raids, the remaster and re-scaling of leveling content. Why is it such a weird concept for challenges to be treated the same?

It's a one time event, you complete it, you're done. It would be akin to asking for Blizzard to repeatedly increase old raids/dungeons rather than adding new ones. It hardly gives "more to do" in the long run.

Except that you don't just play these challenges once. You play them for each individual spec. There's a LOT of replay value to be had here, even once the current expansion is over.

There's a ton in game already that they do have/can get attached to. I'm not less likely to play now because I can't get the black war bug or Corrupted Ashbringer.

Yes, but you might be MORE likely to attempt to get those items if they were available, right? Are you telling me you seriously wouldn't even try?

And before anyone loses their shit over this, I didn't say getting them should be easy. If you're going to bring up the example of some of the most ridiculously difficult items to get in the entire history of the game, then any remastered/re-released access should also be ridiculously difficult to obtain. I'd put it on the same level as soloing current bosses like we see some crazy Blood DKs doing(and honestly, if anyone deserves crazy skins it's that guy).

This is purely theoretical, of course. But say, for example, obtaining these super-rare skins was behind a wall of achievements like the old "Insane" title, or something on that level.

This doesn't require reusing/retuning old scenarios.

You're absolutely right. This was just the most likely, IMO. Blizzard could also re-release access to older skins using completely new and different challenges. Regardless, the point being that there's little purpose served by locking those appearances away forever.

it doesn't take "less dev time", I already addressed this. Right now, devs are working nonstop on new content for BfA. Now imagine if every time they released a new challenge, they had to take a few of those devs and say "Alright, you're stuck making sure this old content can be up to snuff for the new expansion".

That's what would have to happen with your idea, rather than "Hey, go create a new challenge for the new expansion" which actually gives more to do for long term players AND new players.

Oh, you mean like how they spend dev time on remastering the ENTIRE leveling process? Or every time they remaster a timewalking dungeon?

Either way, when dev time is spent to bring content(new or old) up to current, it's creating something for players to do. Re-releasing the older stuff simply wouldn't have the caveat of "You can't ever get this stuff ever again, too bad" that releasing new challenges would.

no Community is going to be built around Mage Tower challenges or one off situations. Hell, there's no proving ground community, and there's no Brawler's guild one either. They're one player situations, so they don't allow for "community". What you're looking for is the new Mythic+ system, which is still being carried over.

I was speaking of things like players talking to other players and seeking advice like they've done EVERY time there's a challenge mode. This happened with Green Fire. It happened with MoP CMs. It happened with Brawlers guild. It's happening right now with Mage Tower challenges.

That player interaction and community simply ceases to exist the moment Blizzard flips the switch to turn off access to that content.

You're just being dishonest at that point, and downplaying the hell out of whatever anything disagreeing with your point says.

I disagree with your PoV so I'm dishonest....ok. Are we going to have to end this convo right now? How about you explain WHY you think I'm dishonest instead of just throwing this out? I'm being BRUTALLY honest here: Special Snowflake "prestige" is the only thing that remains once those challenges are no longer accessible. Where is the benefit to the game once they're turned off?

While they're available for play there's some added incentive to do it NOW. That generates some amount of extra activity. But it's disposable activity. Short term. My entire argument is on creating more valuable, longer term activity.

Every expansion is disposable content, it's what the game has been from the start. And whether you like it or not, there's players much like me who enjoy knowing there's something that I have to work on for THIS expansion, rather than "oh, it's always going to be there".

Yes, and I think there's a fundamental flaw in simply accepting that without ever asking if it could be better. Players like you would STILL be able to look forward to doing things THIS expansion because it would be new. Why do you think the subs spike each time there's a new expansion release? Players log in, do all the new stuff, then bail. But they DO the new stuff. Having a greater background depth of things to do after the initial hype of a new release wears off is NOT a bad thing.

They took new tech they used in Legion and applied to everything, which is a massive quality of life change. It also hardly requires balancing aside from making sure stuff doesn't suddenly one shot, needs to stick to a similar ratio.

Meanwhile, CMs/Mage Tower challenges would require far more fine tuning to ensure the original challenge is preserved, and that if classes had certain abilities taken away, the challenge is reworked for that, which becomes even harder when multiple classes have the same challenge, so let's say if they took away paladin's interrupt for some reason, now they'd have to take away the interrupt mechanic of the Fel Queen scenario, which trivializes the challenge all together.

Quality vs Quantity.

My point was that Blizzard is obviously willing to spend time remastering older content. I was simply pointing out that challenges shouldn't be any different in that regard.

Because an old tier that was removed from the game with Wraths' release is really the same?
And no, gold isn't the "easiest" thing to acquire in the game.

Hey, you literally just used the example of Corrupted Ashbringer and the Black Warbug. Don't try to cop out on Tier 3 now.

And with all due respect, Blizzard and many others disagree.

The entire point of the thread is to discuss and disagree. If you're closing argument boils down to "Well Blizzard said so" then there's not much else to talk about, and I guess that's the end of the debate, and everything has been said that needs to be said.

[Mormolyce]

I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't scale toons upwards though, so that would probably still be a fact even if they applied scaling tech.

Gearing characters to 920+ ilvl is beyond easy at that.

Not on 12 characters it isn't.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Not on 12 characters it isn't.

As someone having done it on 12: Yes, it is.

Takes time, but mechanics-wise with catch-up and world quests and crafted items (not legendaries), it's very easy.

[Mormolyce]

As someone having done it on 12: Yes, it is.

Takes time, but mechanics-wise with catch-up and world quests and crafted items (not legendaries), it's very easy.

Come on, it takes a lot of time.

[Jester Joe]

The entire game is based around repeating content. People play alts, they switch specs, new players come into the game. Absolutely I think it's better for one challenge to be updated rather than having it simply thrown away after a relatively short amount of time.

We see this concept reinforced with Timewalking, M+, multiple difficulties of raids, the remaster and re-scaling of leveling content. Why is it such a weird concept for challenges to be treated the same?

You're confusing "bringing back old content" as "Constantly keeping old content relevant".

First off, Timewalkers are once a month at most, for a week. They're not a nonstop thing. Also, they're jokes. They're not fine tuned to be exactly like they were when they came out, which is what something like the Mage Tower challenge would require.

Second off, you're not exactly right by saying the game is "based around repeating content", because it's based around repeating current content. There's a reason new raids/dungeons are pumped into the game, because the old gets stale.

Third off, it's because the challenge wouldn't be preserved.

Except that you don't just play these challenges once. You play them for each individual spec. There's a LOT of replay value to be had here, even once the current expansion is over.

I'm not sure if you're being serious right now.

You do the challenge once per character. There is no replay value for someone without alts. The challenges are different per spec, no class does the same challenge twice.

And once you complete it, it's done. That's it, you can't even access it again. Literally NO replay value to it.

Yes, but you might be MORE likely to attempt to get those items if they were available, right? Are you telling me you seriously wouldn't even try?

I'm not sitting here farming ICC or any old raid for tier transmog because I don't care, I can get it whenever. So...yeah, I am seriously telling you that.

Meanwhile, I'm leveling as many alts as I can to try to get the mage tower challenges done on all, and I'm actually trying specs I normally wouldn't touch too.

And before anyone loses their shit over this, I didn't say getting them should be easy. If you're going to bring up the example of some of the most ridiculously difficult items to get in the entire history of the game, then any remastered/re-released access should also be ridiculously difficult to obtain. I'd put it on the same level as soloing current bosses like we see some crazy Blood DKs doing(and honestly, if anyone deserves crazy skins it's that guy).

Neither of those are "ridiculously difficult in the entire history of the game". But the "remaster/re-release" part just goes back to my point of it being a "waste of dev time".

You're absolutely right. This was just the most likely, IMO. Blizzard could also re-release access to older skins using completely new and different challenges. Regardless, the point being that there's little purpose served by locking those appearances away forever.

They've been against doing that for the same reasons since they've said they won't reintroduce the MoP CM gear, etc.

They want to keep it locked to when it was an even playing field to all, so everyone had the same challenge, and so on.

Oh, you mean like how they spend dev time on remastering the ENTIRE leveling process? Or every time they remaster a timewalking dungeon?

One is an core feature to the game, another is repeatable content that actually has a reason behind it, and the last is a handful of scenarios that can't even be replayed and give literally nothing besides a single appearance.

There's a huge difference and they're not even comparable.

Either way, when dev time is spent to bring content(new or old) up to current, it's creating something for players to do. Re-releasing the older stuff simply wouldn't have the caveat of "You can't ever get this stuff ever again, too bad" that releasing new challenges would.

This doesn't address the fact that slowly over time, you're going to be losing more and more devs that should be working on new stuff to "making sure MoP CM dungeons are up to par 5 expansions down the road, along with WoD CM, Legions M+/Mage towers, etc".

It's just not feasible.

I was speaking of things like players talking to other players and seeking advice like they've done EVERY time there's a challenge mode. This happened with Green Fire. It happened with MoP CMs. It happened with Brawlers guild. It's happening right now with Mage Tower challenges.

That player interaction and community simply ceases to exist the moment Blizzard flips the switch to turn off access to that content.

The overwhelming extent of that community exists for 2-3 weeks until someone puts out a universally agreed on "best strat guide" and then it dies.

I disagree with your PoV so I'm dishonest....ok. Are we going to have to end this convo right now? How about you explain WHY you think I'm dishonest instead of just throwing this out? I'm being BRUTALLY honest here: Special Snowflake "prestige" is the only thing that remains once those challenges are no longer accessible. Where is the benefit to the game once they're turned off?

Because dude, I literally listed several reasons why it's a bad idea to continue it, and some pros, and you STILL just insist "NAH, it's because special snowflake status!!!".
Whether you like it or not, there are players who enjoy their limited time events. And there ARE players who like having the encouragement to stay subbed and being rewarded for it. There are games that literally incorporate this into their subscription.

While they're available for play there's some added incentive to do it NOW. That generates some amount of extra activity. But it's disposable activity. Short term. My entire argument is on creating more valuable, longer term activity.

Longer, more valuable term activity....from an scenario that literally gives you no way to repeat it, or any possible reason to even repeat it.

You know this, right? This isn't like Brawler's guild where they tack on a few extra bosses and reset progress. It isn't like M+ where you have a reason to push a higher key each week.

You do the MT scenario, you complete it, its done. You're unable to go back in there at all. Any "activity" it gets now is the same "activity" it would get overall. A one time thing and people leave it.

Yes, and I think there's a fundamental flaw in simply accepting that without ever asking if it could be better. Players like you would STILL be able to look forward to doing things THIS expansion because it would be new. Why do you think the subs spike each time there's a new expansion release? Players log in, do all the new stuff, then bail. But they DO the new stuff. Having a greater background depth of things to do after the initial hype of a new release wears off is NOT a bad thing.

Except anyone who bails after completing the new content is not going to stick around for old content. That is literally the most contradictory claim I've ever seen.

These are people who sub just for the NEW. There's a reason they drop off after the launch, they just don't care about it. No one is going to go "Hey, I'm level 120, let me go back and help the Broken Shore assault I missed", when they left before that came out because they didn't care.

Quality vs Quantity.

My point was that Blizzard is obviously willing to spend time remastering older content. I was simply pointing out that challenges shouldn't be any different in that regard.

They're redoing old leveling because they now have a new tech that allows them to do so, and Legion was the test to see how well it worked.

They introduced Timewalking in the same expansion that had the least amount of new content in it.

Hey, you literally just used the example of Corrupted Ashbringer and the Black Warbug. Don't try to cop out on Tier 3 now.

Not copping out on anything, I literally have no idea what you're trying to say here except you think you have a "gotcha" moment when you don't.

Tier 3 is still in game with different recolors. It's not even the same as a unique model sword and a unique mount. And never did I say I was against them removing it from the BMAH, or putting it on there.

The entire point of the thread is to discuss and disagree. If you're closing argument boils down to "Well Blizzard said so" then there's not much else to talk about, and I guess that's the end of the debate, and everything has been said that needs to be said.

And this goes back to my earlier comment of you just ignoring/dismissing things that disagree. I spent an entire post carefully pointing out how I disagree and how I think you're wrong, and this is how you end the summary.

[Deleted]

A tiny minority of players 'buying' stuff like this is not a good excuse to let everyone solo it whenever they want one expansion pack later.

There is nothing wrong with time exclusive rewards where challenge, not RNG, is the principle requirement. If anything WoW could do with more rewards for Achievements like Ahead of the Curve.

And you think more than a tiny minority would go back and solo it later?
But blizzard agrees with you that cheesing things by buying it is okay as long as they get a cut as proven by BMAH.

I will never see the point of time exclusive rewards as long as they can be bought legitimately even if it is only 5 out of a 1000 even if my experience makes me believe the numbers are way higher. Single player challenges about true skill on the other hand i can see a reason for keeping time limit on.

Some of the salt probably comes from the fact that i miss 2 proper loremaster feat of strengths since i did it twice before cataclysm.

[Spazik]

Come on, it takes a lot of time.

Well do not play 12 characters if you have no time :-) Playing 12 characters is just mental :-D You simply can not have everything in WoW, that game is just too big.
I have 3 characters and I feel like I spend way too much time in the game already...

[vsb]

Which challenge(s) did you try?

Holy paladin and Retri paladin so far. I beat it in the end. Tried prot for a few attempts and calling it for now, obviously need better gear.

- - - Updated - - -

My 930 shaman with one elemental legendary blew the challenge up in under a minute, A lot of people consider Agatha to be one of the hardest challenges. I hate being this guy but you may need to just git gud. The only challenges where ilvl doesn't matter are tank is due to instant death from knockbacks.

I'm very experienced WoW player with high level mythic raiding and very high level PvP experience, so thanks, I'm not going to get better, I'm already very good. I don't know which challenge you blew, I don't play elemental shaman, but with retri paladin challenge you have to endure very long fight (even with DPS over 1 million) when every mistake almost oneshots you. There's no equivalent in WoW for that difficulty, even mythic bosses are much more forgiving.

[Deleted]

This makes 0 sense.
Why in the world would they do such a silly thing as to not let us have ALL artifact appearances obtainable somehow post Legion?

Just to clarify: I have all artifact skins for every spec.

The main problem is the demon hunter one: Flamereaper is by a wide margin better than any other appearance, hence it would be a pain for someone who joins the game later not being able to obtain that particular appearance. especially considering how few other options DHs have compared to other classes.

The other one being the druid werebear form, though there are other options to choose from, that form is simply vastly superior in every sense.
Something like the claws of Shirvalla talent was back then but that isn't a problem since there exist a toy which turns you into a saberon anyways.

The point is, there must exist some way in which future players could obtain these exquisite appearances also. Must not be the current way, a way nonetheless.

Why must every item be obtainable? What about T3 and Corrupted Ashbringer, why can't I get these items?

I think it's OK that you get something to show off that you indeed were there at the given time and completed the challenge.
It's beyond me why Warlocks still can obtain green fire etc.

[Jazzhands]

Holy paladin and Retri paladin so far. I beat it in the end. Tried prot for a few attempts and calling it for now, obviously need better gear.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm very experienced WoW player with high level mythic raiding and very high level PvP experience, so thanks, I'm not going to get better, I'm already very good. I don't know which challenge you blew, I don't play elemental shaman, but with retri paladin challenge you have to endure very long fight (even with DPS over 1 million) when every mistake almost oneshots you. There's no equivalent in WoW for that difficulty, even mythic bosses are much more forgiving.

I did the Vengeance DH Challenge at 900/39 traits. It's almost the same as the Prot paladin challenge, but it has an additional mechanic that prot doesn't that involves timing AoE silences on a group of adds and killing them before they basically instagib you. The Ret paladin challenge has been done by people as low as 890 apparently. The Ret paladin challenge is also the exact same as enhance shaman, which I already said I've completed, somewhere around ilvl925. It's really easy, the only time the fight gets the least bit scary is the 15 seconds you need to leave the boss up to reset diminishing returns, and it's very easy to cover that gap with defensive CDs if things happen to get messy.

The fights are all about executing the mechanics properly, plain and simple, except for the few that some classes can cheese because we outgear the challenges just that much at this point. Two additional raid tiers above the intended gear for the challenges will do that.

If you're a "High level mythic raider", then you should be able to clear these with ease, because heroic hero scrubs like myself are clearing them with significantly less ilvl than you, and with less "skill", apparently. It sounds like you're either lying, or just need a reality check.

Also a bit of friendly advice for both the game and life. Never stop growing. No matter how good you may thing you are right now, you can always get better. Unless you're on Methods Mythic world first team, they're freaks.

Edit: Just did the ret paladin challenge, 939 equip. https://imgur.com/a/Opqod

I barely ever play Ret, my paladin is main Holy and I do very little world content on him, but I still managed 850k DPS with a weird build, fight over all took about 5 minutes.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Tbh I tried the baseline frostmage one once and I got one shot I don't have the time nor patience for it tbh im also not overly fussed about the skins.

..how? all you do is kite adds, kill and interrupt hand, burn down kaest the first 2 times then focus down raest to 0% and step on runes everyime they spawn [hell your water elemental can do this for you]. it's not hard all.

[Deleted]

Not in the slightest. Nothing I've ever missed in WoW has made me want to play WoW less. Also there SHOULD be things that make Subs feel special. since you know. They are actually paying for and supporting the game.

If people don't want to pay or support the game why should I give any fucks about their incessant bitching. Enough bitching fucktards already have caused Classic to be taken seriously.

Quite simple. If you want it. Get it when the Devs tell you it's available. If you don't get it. Tough luck.

once again. Boo fucking hoo.

Why you booing me? I'm playing the game.

The thing is, only caring about the live gamer and not caring to bring new players in is the slow death. As much as you care about feeling rewarded with these things, it will just accelarate the closure of the game. So... \o/ I'd rather see the game being supported for longer than wether i have this exclusive skin i rarely use.

To give you an example of this, GW2 living world season 1 was removed from that game. Alot of people just knowing they won't get to experience it anymore just give the game a skip, they are hopelessly behind (they are not but they will feel they missed an important part of it, wich is true). I don't think it's a good policy. But alas, we can disagree.

[netherflame]

I'd be ok if they level locked them and scaled people down to say 920 after the expansion as a sort of "punishment" for not getting them during the expansion.

[Garybear]

They should just cap your ilv or scale you when doing the mage tower challenge. I could understand the +15 skin just because that seems like more work but even still I believe that reward should be account wide. I constantly switch classes every few months and it sucks that whatever I decide to play halfway through BfA won't have any of the tryhard rewards I am clearly skilled enough to deserve.