Why do people act like Classic WOW was torture?

[Soon-TM]

No. You don't get to use an argument hinged on realism when the very same mechanic is breaks realism.

The very same mechanic you are celebrating breaks immersion when you shoot for the 100th time and realize you have a load of ammo that can only be carried around in a cart.

That's where immersion breaks, hence not immersive.

Go figure.

Still it makes more sense to carry the ammo with you than creating it out of thin air, that's Mage territory.

[Nomads]

It's not an opinion. An opinion would be like "I find vanilla more enjoyable." Vanilla being immersive is a straight up lie.

I don't have anything against vanilla, nor people that prefer it. But I am not gonna sit around and pretend it's more immersive.

So you just proved that you think your opinion is fact. I think we can all safely ignore you after we've had a good laugh at your expense. I'll start us off here.

Bahahahhahahhahahahahabahahahahahaha.

[Clone]

Still it makes more sense to carry the ammo with you than creating it out of thin air, that's Mage territory.

It makes no sense to carry a cart's worth of ammo with you, in a small bag nonetheless. Bending the law of reality is mage territory too.

You don't get to be selective on this. Either the whole mechanic is immersive or it's not. Any realism offered by the old ammo mechanic is broken by the very fact it didn't have a realistic capacity.

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So you just proved that you think your opinion is fact. I think we can all safely ignore you after we've had a good laugh at your expense. I'll start us off here.

Bahahahhahahhahahahahabahahahahahaha.

I think fact is fact. You people are the only ones that think the old ammo mechanic is immersive despite being pointed out it wasn't on numerous occasions, by different posters.

[Nomads]

Lol, no.
There will be the 500 people with rosetinted glasses. Then those few guys that go around guilds pronouncing how "everything was better in vanilla" all day long. And some curious people who have never played vanilla before (who will likely all quit very soon cause a game with 2004 standards in 2018 just doesn't work).

I don't mind vanilla, i won't play it again cause i have already and i'm not going to play that grind again with 2004 mmo standards, but for the people who like it, sure why not.
But don't go around here pretending there are "millions of people" waiting for vanilla, cause if you think there are, you are just delusional.
All in all there might be a few hundred thousand trying it out at the start, but that amount will plummet like a brick after 1-2 months when people realize how much of a step back into time it is, and then it will go back to exactly what it is: a niche market.

Your point MAY have had some validity if it wasnt for the fact that the existence of private servers and their community of tens of thousands already disproves that.

You can scream like a child that the game will flop until you're blue in the face. And we will just continue laughing at you. The game is gonna be a big deal. I just hope that your dopamine infused brain from modern gaming has the ability to remember your silly posts like these and feel ashamed.

[Soon-TM]

It makes no sense to carry a cart's worth of ammo with you, in a small bag nonetheless. Bending the law of reality is mage territory too.

You don't get to be selective on this. Either the whole mechanic is immersive or it's not. Any realism offered by the old ammo mechanic is broken by the very fact it didn't have a realistic capacity.

It was a compromise between the small arrow packages from Diablo 2 and the complete nonsense of today. And like most compromises, it didn't satisfy the purists of either camp.

[Nomads]

It makes no sense to carry a cart's worth of ammo with you, in a small bag nonetheless. Bending the law of reality is mage territory too.

You don't get to be selective on this. Either the whole mechanic is immersive or it's not. Any realism offered by the old ammo mechanic is broken by the very fact it didn't have a realistic capacity.

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I think fact is fact. You people are the only ones that think the old ammo mechanic is immersive despite being pointed out it wasn't on numerous occasions, by different posters.

Stay in school, kid. You got a lot to learn.

[Clone]

It was a compromise between the small arrow packages from Diablo 2 and the complete nonsense of today. And like most compromises, it didn't satisfy the purists of either camp.

Diablo 2 had arrows that you could stack up to 250, and are easily looted from monsters.

The whole ammo mechanic was QoL from the start. I had no issues with it, but I am not going to pretend it was a immersive mechanic.

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Stay in school, kid. You got a lot to learn.

I've learned to back up my claim with stats, you have any to prove that private servers have millions, let alone tens of thousands of players?

[Deleted]

It makes no sense to carry a cart's worth of ammo with you, in a small bag nonetheless. Bending the law of reality is mage territory too.

You don't get to be selective on this. Either the whole mechanic is immersive or it's not. Any realism offered by the old ammo mechanic is broken by the very fact it didn't have a realistic capacity.

Dude you don't make any sense.
1. Never ever again use word realism when you are talking about video games - especially fantasy one.
2. Immersion has nothing to do with realism. Immersion is subjective and totally opinion depended, it's just about how you immerse in your character. Calling something subjective as fact makes you look kinda stupid. You can be selective - black and white doesn't exist. Small things like hunter ammo makes your character more interesting in rpg context - some people find it fun when they craft their own ammo etc. Personally I don't play video games for the "immersion" and when I played vanilla hunter I didn't give a shit about ammo; it's not that hard to just buy them always when you are in a city.
3. You forgot it's a video game. Sure if you could carry less items it would make more sense but in video games you have to balance around having fun and that's not as easy as you think. I think I like it more now when you have more inventory slots available for things, but you can definitely play around having way less slots in vanilla. Probably not much less.

I actually have a question for you. I have been following a bit and it's obvious that some people like you are having some crusade against classic wow. Why is that? What did the vanilla players do to you? No need to attack me btw, I'm "retail player" or whatever the word was, I just don't care if they find playing vanilla fun. They are totally right about that legion is not anymore the rpg wow used to be, it's more of a multiplayer lobby where I log one of my 14(? not even sure anymore) characters and queue into something - usually arenas, though I'm raiding currently antorus too. Or maybe I grind some world quests with WQGF.

The question you should ask yourself is, what kind of game you actually want to play? In vanilla you are kinda committed in one character that you keep developing so having classic rpg elements makes more sense. I don't see any reason why there are no room for both types of games. Sure I will play a bit classic wow but mostly I'm gonna play bfa simply because classic doesn't have arenas and I find raiding in vanilla extremely boring - though I can see why many people enjoy it too, it can be kinda relaxing sometimes compared to current content.

[MrHappy]

You should really learn the meaning of "opinion", and "immersion" for that matter. They don't mean what you think they do.

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Yea, because Warcraft hasn't been filled with gamebreaking bugs, exploits or glaring balance issues throughout every expansion in the game's history. Let's single out vanilla issues. And that was eventually fixed\changed by the way, in case you missed it. You can have Classic without that issue whatsoever, it's just a matter of them picking the appropriate patch\version.

That isn't even fucking vanilla (on the 2nd video). Lol, dude has glyphs (https://youtu.be/N9dteIiUaV8?t=68)... vanilla FOR SURE. Goes to show the same glaring issues occured AFTER vanilla, who knew! Or we can just ignore them and keep pinpointing classic as bad, got it.

Yes I will single out Vanilla issue since we were discussing Vanilla wow....makes sense to me does it not for you?

And you hit the nail on the head. This problem was still persistent in the NEXT EXPANSION. so "it's just a matter of them picking the appropriate patch\version" argument goes out the window. Again we point to Classic as bad because it was broken non-immersive and artificially difficult because you had no idea wtf you were doing vs the game actually be challenging.

Actually you are correct it WAS fixed eventually and the appropriate patch with the most fixes and balances is ....7.3.5.


EDIT: want to clarify ...it felt non-immesive to me playing my warlock. One min i'm casting corruption and agony and being a general badass with my demon pet....then you get that nice little red message that you don't have the resources to cast the shit you want to cast...so you stop doing what you were doing...going to find some boar and channel drain soul until you have the shards to resume wtf you were doing. That break in moment killed certain aspects of immersion for me because i was in the moment then rudely awakened by the lack of shards in my bags....i'm a dark/demonic mage guy with demon pets...wtf you mean i need to kill boars to collect souls to kill my enemies.

[Deleted]

Yes I will single out Vanilla issue since we were discussing Vanilla wow....makes sense to me does it not for you?

And you hit the nail on the head. This problem was still persistent in the NEXT EXPANSION. so "it's just a matter of them picking the appropriate patch\version" argument goes out the window. Again we point to Classic as bad because it was broken non-immersive and artificially difficult because you had no idea wtf you were doing vs the game actually be challenging.

Actually you are correct it WAS fixed eventually and the appropriate patch with the most fixes and balances is ....7.3.5.

Nothing was fixed in this game. Game was entirely changed, vanilla wow and legion doesn't have much in common. You guys just enjoy different kind of games so I don't have any idea why the fuck are you fighting.


edit of your edit:

What comes to soulshards I think the idea was ok but the implementation was horrible, maybe getting multiple shards out of single mob would have fixed the frustration or something (probably not). Also affli still uses soul shards and it's core part of the affliction gameplay. I just don't understand how using souls to summon demons is not "immersive" or whatever you want to say.

[Nomads]

I've learned to back up my claim with stats, you have any to prove that private servers have millions, let alone tens of thousands of players?

This is actually one of those situations where you're so obviously and utterly wrong, that none of us have the desire to prove anything to you. We and every one else who bothers to read your drivel just have a good laugh.

I'll help you out a little... Our side is saying: that we find having to carry a limited amount of ammo feels more immersive than having magical bullets appear out of thin air. You are saying: OMG YOUR FEELING IS WRONG BECAUSE ITS NOT REALISTIC TO CARRY SO MUCH AMMO OR ALL THE OTHER THINGS IN YOUR BAGS!!! You seem to fail to realize the immersive does not mean realistic. And you also fail to realize that you are holding an OPINION, not a fact.

And for the record no one said private servers have millions of players. Tens of thousands? Yes. LH has 10k online at peak hours alone.

So while you're in school learning to distinguish fact from opinion, please look in to some reading comprehension too.

[MrHappy]

Nothing was fixed in this game.

Pretty sure the every patchnote ever proves that statement is false but ok w/e

Game was entirely changed, vanilla wow and legion doesn't have much in common

Game didn't change....it evolved to be better sure but there is much that is the same.

You guys just enjoy different kind of games

Except this is a conversation about the same game....WoW is still WoW not FFXII or Runescape

I don't have any idea why the fuck are you fighting

Because we give objective reasons for why we think the game was bad then and good now but people in response either attack or provide opinions without making any actual objective reasons why it was good

[Nomads]

Because we give objective reasons for why we think the game was bad then and good now but people in response either attack or provide opinions without making any actual objective reasons why it was good

Opinions are a completely valid reason to explain why you feel one thing is better than another. Objective reasons aren't anymore valid when it basically boils down to your own choice.

Also, as for patches "improving" the game. That is true within an expansion. However, with each expansion the game changed drastically. These were less about making improvements than trying something new for the sake of making the game feel different and not stale. A lot of the changes that occurred in expansions were things the ORIGINAL devs said they'd never want to change. New devs, new teams, new directions for the game.

So Vanilla and Legion are completely different games.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure the every patchnote ever proves that statement is false but ok w/e

Game didn't change....it evolved to be better sure but there is much that is the same.

Making changes is not fixing things. What is better is obviously subjective and there are no facts.. I mean vanilla players actually have edge on this discussion because they can claim that wow is "dying" due to changes. Fact is that WoW is actually losing subscribers. I don't agree with that it's the reason but they can claim it easily.

Because we give objective reasons for why we think the game was bad then and good now but people in response either attack or provide opinions without making any actual objective reasons why it was good

Look at your own posts. You are not objective at all.

[MrHappy]

edit of your edit:

What comes to soulshards I think the idea was ok but the implementation was horrible, maybe getting multiple shards out of single mob would have fixed the frustration or something (probably not). Also affli still uses soul shards and it's core part of the affliction gameplay. I just don't understand how using souls to summon demons is not "immersive" or whatever you want to say.

Affliction/Demonology using shards as a resource you GENERATE and SPEND as a RESOURCE is one thing
Using mana as your primary resource which you can generate by lifetap and replenish by drain life is one thing
But using mana and spending mana while sometimes speanding shards that you have to keep track of in bags oh and btw you need to get a different specialized bag otherwise you will have to make a decision do I want to cast things or have space for loot is another thing.

It's like is shamans had to go chop wood to summon their totems every time nothing to do with gameplay or character fantasy

[DarthMonk79]

I really haven't read anything about Classic WoW being torture, but then I don't read forums too much. What I have read is people listing the stuff that made it "bad" which I don't think it was that either. That being said I do believe a lot of people have "rose-tinted goggles" on about Vanilla. It had a better MMORPG feel to it but there was a lot of bad stuff too. IF I had to choose between current WoW and Vanilla I would play current WoW regardless of a lot of the stuff I miss from Vanilla/TBC.

[MrHappy]

Opinions are a completely valid reason to explain why you feel one thing is better than another. Objective reasons aren't anymore valid when it basically boils down to your own choice.

Also, as for patches "improving" the game. That is true within an expansion. However, with each expansion the game changed drastically. These were less about making improvements than trying something new for the sake of making the game feel different and not stale. A lot of the changes that occurred in expansions were things the ORIGINAL devs said they'd never want to change. New devs, new teams, new directions for the game.

So Vanilla and Legion are completely different games.

yep i forgot in legion there are only 3 classe the Titan, Warlock, and Hunter and each has a new subclass: the Titan Striker, Warlock Dawnblade, and Hunter Gunslinger respectively and we also use guns and swords only....oh wiat that's destiny 2 a completely different game...nvm back to discussion of WoW

[Nomads]

yep i forgot in legion there are only 3 classe the Titan, Warlock, and Hunter and each has a new subclass: the Titan Striker, Warlock Dawnblade, and Hunter Gunslinger respectively and we also use guns and swords only....oh wiat that's destiny 2 a completely different game...nvm back to discussion of WoW

Don't complain that people don't give you "objective reasons" if this is the only way you know how to respond. I definitely won't be wasting my time giving you serious replies any longer.

[MrHappy]

Making changes is not fixing things.

What? You lost me...i'm pretty sure that's the definition of fixing.

Look at your own posts. You are not objective at all.

Ok let's

Point 1) You can spend months gearing and playing the game to get the best gear only to be chain-stunned and killed by a guy in white gear
Point 2) Immersion is broken by having to stop playing your class and go do something unrelated to replenish a tertiary resource to use your primary abilities to resume your main story/class fantasy

you're right totally subjective experience

[hulkgor]

I love it how the vanilla-bashers keep trying to turn their biased opinions into fact, and bash whoever disagrees with them.

MAKES SENSE LADS.

As a final argument, if Vanilla was that bad, and shit, and all the worst things in the world, why are you so bothered with Classic being released in the original form? Do you also bash and spew bullshit on every other game you don't play forums? Or keep harassing people that play them? Or every other thing you dislike? That is fucking exhausting dudes, how can you endure that?

I don't get it. Just ignore it and move on? It doesn't harm you in the slightest, nor are you required to play it... so, again, why does it bother you guys that people ACTUALLY ENJOY IT?