Shadow Priest Battle for Azeroth SUGGESTED Changes

[Bearded Sith]

What?

What what?

First off, you miss the point when people say they want a previous expansion's iteration of shadow priest. The current shadow priest is nothing like how the spec originally played. Traditionally, shadow priest was a consistent damage class with good self sustain and small group heals via VE. Now its nothing like that. Its reliant on a mechanic that ramps damage up extremely (DoTs at 50 stacks do almost 4x the damage vs. out of void form) and overly punishes players for screwing up. Its similar to Frost DK's Breath of Sindragosa, but that didn't ramp. However Blizzard found it necessary to change it to no longer make it mandatory because people didn't find it fun to deal with.

First off, you miss the point where I said wanting to go back to a previous expansions iteration of shadow priest is unhelpful, moot, and just IS.NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN. Get over it.

Talk about not constructive, there's people here who's played the class since vanilla (I played spriest starting in TBC through wrath, a tad at the end of MoP, WoD, and Legion), and yer using the "If you don't like it then you can get out" argument?

Where did I say "get out"? I said find a class more to your liking. How is that NOT constructive? Seriously, don't play something you don't like. Seriously, don't play something you don't like. Typed that twice so hopefully, this time, it sinks in.

I moved my shadow priest to my alt now (decided to main ele) because the class is frustrating to main spec.

Thanks for proving my previous point was correct. Much appreciated. Also, really goes against your last argument...but that's neither here nor there...

Min-maxing shadow and trying to squeeze every bit out of it is very frustrating when you just get completely destroyed by a single mechanic. Having to move above 40 void stacks cause you to lose a stack at least, and if its enough movement, you'll just pop out way too early and your mindbender rotation is screwed. On top of that, you can pop Dispersion while moving to hold Void Stacks, but why are we using defensives offensively?

Falling out of form because you can't attack the boss for a few seconds like on sisters, or not being able to take advantage of your ramp at all (75% parse on Imonar for spriest is around 1.1 mil) just feels really bad. This is the cause often in M+, particularly in bolstering weeks.

EVERY SINGLE FIGHT IS DIFFERENT! Want Patchwerk fights? Go playing Vanilla servers and actually play against Patchwerk (assumptions made). Not every class can dominate every fight. Movement is a problem with Shadow Priests. And Demonology Warlocks. And Marksman Hunters. And...<insert random spec here>.

You, regardless of your ego, will never dominate every fight. You have to deal with those fights where you just aren't at your maximum. It's how raiding works.

Finally, enjoy your Elemental Shaman. They are hell'a fun.

[beefeetr]

I'd like to see an alternative talent for Twist of Fate. Maybe something like an ability that instantly puts you in voidform with 20 stacks with a decent cool down - 3 or 5 minutes. The numbers don't really matter, it'd just be nice to have the option to front load our damage with heroism on pull encounters.

[Stratcaster]

BC spriest for me too... the best, mana battery, utility... life saving off heals... fun times.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like Vamp Embrace and Vamp Touch to be supportive like in BC. Make Shadow Priests mana/heal batteries. Have their DPS converted into mana and health for the raid.

You'll ALWAYS have a spot then.

Yeah, I agree... they were great. Spriests lost their tankish survivability this xpac.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, boy, love to get repetitive stress injuries from playing a spec that never used to have this problem. Nothing more fun than button-mashing faster than a coked up ferret.

Shadow used to be deliberate and deep back in Cataclysm. Now it's a drinky-bird spec on speed. Void Bolt, Mind Blast, one GCD of Mind Flay, repeat.

Fuckin' Legion Shadow is like the world's worst lover: extremely shallow and incredibly fast.

Gold, and true.

[ttylol]

Falling out of form because you can't attack the boss for a few seconds like on sisters, or not being able to take advantage of your ramp at all (75% parse on Imonar for spriest is around 1.1 mil) just feels really bad.

Yeah... My MB/VT rotation has been ruined by:

Worldbreaker: Apocalypse Drive de-targeting
Portal Keeper: platform travel time (and we don't burst enough AoE to warrant staying down)
Eonar lol
Immonar: slow dispels
Coven: heal absorb split second stuns
Argus: repeat bombs/bursts

Yes, those effect every DPS. However, other classes lose a few seconds of optimal DPS if they're targeted by mechanics, have to move during their cooldowns, etc. Shadow can lose 20+ seconds of optimal DPS due to one unfortunately timed mechanic.

Just Dispersion you say? Okay, hope I'm not randomly targeted or must move more than once per minute.

[Jaigar]

What what?



First off, you miss the point where I said wanting to go back to a previous expansions iteration of shadow priest is unhelpful, moot, and just IS.NOT.GOING.TO.HAPPEN. Get over it.



Where did I say "get out"? I said find a class more to your liking. How is that NOT constructive? Seriously, don't play something you don't like. Seriously, don't play something you don't like. Typed that twice so hopefully, this time, it sinks in.



Thanks for proving my previous point was correct. Much appreciated. Also, really goes against your last argument...but that's neither here nor there...



EVERY SINGLE FIGHT IS DIFFERENT! Want Patchwerk fights? Go playing Vanilla servers and actually play against Patchwerk (assumptions made). Not every class can dominate every fight. Movement is a problem with Shadow Priests. And Demonology Warlocks. And Marksman Hunters. And...<insert random spec here>.

You, regardless of your ego, will never dominate every fight. You have to deal with those fights where you just aren't at your maximum. It's how raiding works.

Finally, enjoy your Elemental Shaman. They are hell'a fun.

Dude, you have a thread in this sub-forum about how you just started playing shadow priest from last week. You have no idea what its like to push progression as a shadow priest.

[Jervaise]

Dude, you have a thread in this sub-forum about how you just started playing shadow priest from last week. You have no idea what its like to push progression as a shadow priest.

I also considered pointing this out but thought people will see it anyway.

[Bearded Sith]

Dude, you have a thread in this sub-forum about how you just started playing shadow priest from last week. You have no idea what its like to push progression as a shadow priest.

You're right, I don't. But I DO know about pushing progression on classes with similar issues. Demonology Warlock for example. I've also been raiding since you were in diapers.

Starting to see a trend. I pick weird specs...

Oh well.

Ok, that's a silly assumption, but I thought it'd be funny, so calm the heck down! But seriously, I've been raiding on a regular basis since Molten Core was the top dog. Every single raid tier, every single raid, every single boss is different. Some less than others, of course, but for the most part, every single encounter is different. Every spec has their ups and their downs. You honestly can't reasonably expect every class or spec to perform amazingly well for every situation.

The overarching sentiment my comments were intended to convey (and apparently missed the mark) is that if you feel you need to be top dog on every fight, or if you feel you need to be top dog in "a" fight, then many Shadow Priest just isn't for you, right now. Come back later. Go play the flavor of the month class that fits your overachieving mentality. There's a reason they're called "Flavor of the month". Lots of people look at that term and see negative connotations, but it's overall a positive thing. You want to be cutting edge? FotM is usually where you go.

Want examples? Look how many of the top 1% of raids swap characters. Sometimes they swap them mid-raid. Why? BECAUSE SOME PERFORM BETTER FOR CERTAIN FIGHTS! Embrace it, don't run from it.

[Ophenia]

I am quite satisfied with Blizzard saying there wont be massive class changes next expansion, as I find all three priest specs fun and interesting. Seriously, it’s the first time I want to play all specs as they are just so well designed. That does not mean there are no room gor improvement however. For shadow I would like them to go over the playstyle and talents and refine it, simmilar to what they did with patch... 7.1.5? The one where surrender to madness got nerfed. (I miss mind sear though). I am also quite curious to see how shadow will play without the artifact - void torrent feels line a cornerstone of the spcc atm.

Ow yiss i love being a ShadowPriest needing Argus MM to be able to tag in any MM+10 dungeons while my crappy Balance druid can tag wherever he wants without any achievement

You're right, I don't. But I DO know about pushing progression on classes with similar issues. Demonology Warlock for example. I've also been raiding since you were in diapers.

Ah, demonology warlock, you mean the class that can also play 2 other DPS specs if ever this one fails to deliver anything ?

SP have the same problem as the Ret. Your spec suck ? Delete it.

And currently, the Shadow Priest only has one niche. Council-like fights, aka boss fights with 2 or 3 targets who will live long enough for our ramp-up damage to be efficient. That gives us, in 7.3.2, nothing. Because the Council-like fights (Felhounds and Coven) requires both to have the targets spread (40 and 18m), and you can't afford to refresh DoTs when you're dealing the most (high VF stacks).
And guess what ?
We're getting annihilated in Council fights by Afflocks and Balances.

Shadow Priests are completely useless in MM+ content today because they were nerfed (we were apparently abominably powerful on 2 fights in Antorus, let's destroy the class (but hey, leave Balance and Afflocks alive plz) !).
Shadow Priests are completely useless in Antorus today as well, because of the abovementioned nerf, and also because there are other classes that do the same thing as SP, but better. Why bothering with this class ?

That's why SP are talking about the "good ol' days". Where SPs were relevant, especially because back then we had Vampiric Embrace and Dispersion which allowed us to provide with some soaking or raid healing, better than Warlocks.

Shadow Priests were, once, Master of the DoTs, and they want to become that again.

[KaPe]

I'd like to see an alternative talent for Twist of Fate. Maybe something like an ability that instantly puts you in voidform with 20 stacks with a decent cool down - 3 or 5 minutes. The numbers don't really matter, it'd just be nice to have the option to front load our damage with heroism on pull encounters.

They could very well remove the thing and rework SW : D *again* to be an actual execute ability, instead of merely low damage insanity generator. It's even worse on add fights, since high uptime must be taken under account for balance purposes and it completely outshines other options in the same tier. Plus not only there's no front loaded heroism burst, your damage also suffers until something final spawns to proc it.

Or just make it a passive damage buff to low hp targets, so adds don't buff boss damage. I'm not even mentioning "design some viable alternatives", because Blizzard failed to do so for a long time.

[Beardless Man]

1) Get rid of Voidform and insanity generation.
2) Bring back Dark Archangel
3) Make Priests a hybrid class once more with combined healing and DPS
4) Give Priests CC back, such as Psychic Horror, Psychic Scream, Disarm, etc.
5) Make Shadowfiend a viable cooldown.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Ow yiss i love being a ShadowPriest needing Argus MM to be able to tag in any MM+10 dungeons while my crappy Balance druid can tag wherever he wants without any achievement



Ah, demonology warlock, you mean the class that can also play 2 other DPS specs if ever this one fails to deliver anything ?

SP have the same problem as the Ret. Your spec suck ? Delete it.

And currently, the Shadow Priest only has one niche. Council-like fights, aka boss fights with 2 or 3 targets who will live long enough for our ramp-up damage to be efficient. That gives us, in 7.3.2, nothing. Because the Council-like fights (Felhounds and Coven) requires both to have the targets spread (40 and 18m), and you can't afford to refresh DoTs when you're dealing the most (high VF stacks).
And guess what ?
We're getting annihilated in Council fights by Afflocks and Balances.

Shadow Priests are completely useless in MM+ content today because they were nerfed (we were apparently abominably powerful on 2 fights in Antorus, let's destroy the class (but hey, leave Balance and Afflocks alive plz) !).
Shadow Priests are completely useless in Antorus today as well, because of the abovementioned nerf, and also because there are other classes that do the same thing as SP, but better. Why bothering with this class ?

That's why SP are talking about the "good ol' days". Where SPs were relevant, especially because back then we had Vampiric Embrace and Dispersion which allowed us to provide with some soaking or raid healing, better than Warlocks.

Shadow Priests were, once, Master of the DoTs, and they want to become that again.

While I agree with what you are trying to say, we have seen waaaaaaaaaaaay worse days.

The current state of Shadow is completely OP if you compare it to ANY MoP raid. Our relative strength (compared to the other classes) was also significantly lower during HFC progress (before the class trinket got buffed through the roof).


At our weakest point during Legion, we were still much better than we ever were during MoP, and still stronger than we were for the majority of WoD.

[Deleted]

The problem I have with my Spriest alt is the demonology style rampup (warlock main). Questing is nothing more then dotting and voidform is charged up when the targets are dead, though I guess allot of classes now have issues that half their kit is useless for WQ style content.

With the Old Gods team (looks awesome) and being a regular Holy/Disc priest at the same time. I don't know of any NPC that switches between fully Holy to full Void Tencacle mode without being insane AF. It's like being a Paladin and a Demon at the same time, does not compute.

[Soulwind]

Not directed at you, just in general: I cannot fathom how people enjoy the Legion spriest lore retcon. The whole tentacle-insanity thing is honestly a complete bore. Shadow was never about "OH LOOK AT MY TENTACLES AND WATCH ME GO INSANE AND KILL MYSELF," anything and everything manifesting, talking gibberish in /s because of "class fantasy" etc. Spriests hid in the shadows, their power didn't have to manifest as disgusting Illaoi-hentai tentacles, nor did their power over the mind have to be explained by sucking off the Old Gods.
The Legion spriest rework is an abomination of a retcon and it cannot disappear quickly enough in my opinion.

Not a fan of the concept, but I understand why they did it.

Before Legion, and before Chronicles, shadow magic was just another energy from the universe, like fire or nature, often connected to fel and death magic for no other reason than "it looks evil".

But they've now established that all shadow magic is Void magic, a force as powerful as the Light that comes from outside the universe, and the main way in which it manifests into our world is through Old Gods.

Sure, it's a retcon, but they're connecting something that didn't have an explanation into elements that were already there, and for the most part it makes sense. There's no psychic magic in Warcraft, but Old Gods play with the minds of the mortals. Torturing minds, that rings a bell, doesn't it? Oh, right, all our spells are about that.

I just wish that now that void elves and characters like Alleria and Locus-Walker are able to channel the energies of the Void directly from its source without the cultist themes, they'll allow shadow priests do the same and leave the Old God elements as cosmetic glyphs.

And Surrender to Madness was a cute idea, a reminder that sometimes Blizzard does stuff for fun without thinking too much about balance or rotations. But it should be removed and never considered again.

[Nihiel]

The overarching sentiment my comments were intended to convey (and apparently missed the mark) is that if you feel you need to be top dog on every fight, or if you feel you need to be top dog in "a" fight, then many Shadow Priest just isn't for you, right now. Come back later. Go play the flavor of the month class that fits your overachieving mentality. There's a reason they're called "Flavor of the month". Lots of people look at that term and see negative connotations, but it's overall a positive thing. You want to be cutting edge? FotM is usually where you go.

Want examples? Look how many of the top 1% of raids swap characters. Sometimes they swap them mid-raid. Why? BECAUSE SOME PERFORM BETTER FOR CERTAIN FIGHTS! Embrace it, don't run from it.

Are you honestly kidding me?
Your point obviously doesn't come across because your whole mindset is wrong. These complaints have nothing to do with "overachieving and being on top of meters" - how the fuck can you not understand that all of the complaints made about shadow is regarding the ENTIRE KIT AND MECHANICS OF THE SPEC AND NOT IT'S DAMAGE OUTPUT? How can you not understand this? Seriously, how hard can it be? It's not about the dmg, it's about the spec, its kit, how it feels and how it plays. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE DMG. CAN YOU GET IT PLEASE??????

I'm lost for words at how this has just flown past your head, it's almost like you're intentionally misreading everything.

You do realise most of us here have played the spec in forever, we're not just some "hehe I just found out what Void Form is and S2M is fun, now I'll try to be an authority" newish spriest. "Newish" spriests like yourself and the FoTM rerollers in S2M had your fun, meanwhile most of us veteran spriests despise S2M. Since the moment Legion went live and S2M hadn't been removed, I despised it. And do you remember what was "fotm" and the top performing spec back in the beginning of Legion? That's right, shadow!

This just goes to show that it's not about the damage.

It's NOT ABOUT THE DAMAGE.

And just once more in the hope that you might get it; It's NOT ABOUT THE DAMAGE!

Even with S2M out of the window, VF and Insanity decay is still terrible beyond words, no other spec loses as much from momentary disruption as we do. "Well you can't be on top of every fight" you might say, well no fucking shit Sherlock, is this what we're complaining about? NO, it's not. Random mechanics, movement and other disruptions are so punishing to shadow that it goes beyond just losing "dps uptime" for a few seconds as many other people here have stated. How can you not understand this? It would be like if any other caster got targeted by a mechanic and had to deal with it, then afterwards they'd get -20% haste for 20 seconds. This is why VF and Insanity decay sucks, it just doesn't work.

Do you finally get it? If not, I'll happily continue to educate you.

I'd like to see an alternative talent for Twist of Fate. Maybe something like an ability that instantly puts you in voidform with 20 stacks with a decent cool down - 3 or 5 minutes. The numbers don't really matter, it'd just be nice to have the option to front load our damage with heroism on pull encounters.

I hope ToF goes baseline again, we've had that ability for the longest time. If VF stays I do like your suggestion though, it'd be like a VF rotation but you'd skip the 40 seconds of build up so you would have on demand burst. Simple but nice.

[Caladia]

The problem I have with my Spriest alt is the demonology style rampup (warlock main). Questing is nothing more then dotting and voidform is charged up when the targets are dead, though I guess allot of classes now have issues that half their kit is useless for WQ style content.

It was a problem while leveling too. I just got use to killing 1 set of mobs while never going into VF and then kill the next (slightly larger) pack with VF. So it didn't even require you to get well geared for that to be an issue.

[KaPe]

It was a problem while leveling too. I just got use to killing 1 set of mobs while never going into VF and then kill the next (slightly larger) pack with VF. So it didn't even require you to get well geared for that to be an issue.

It's even weirder now that Void Eruption might one shot dotted mobs. You go Voidform, everything dies, insanity decays to zero before the next pack... yay?

[RsinRC]

/wave to all

Been M.I.A. for a minute and decided to check out the good old forums. Glad nothing has changed lol

For BfA the over all changes I'd like to see happen for shadow are -

I want shadow personals to be about mobility and more substantial self healing through damage (VT healing is abysmal but Instead having anyone afflicted with VT allows VB, MB and SWD to heal you for a % for example)
- Examples for mobility gameplay are having roots, spectral guise, blinks, casting while moving, instant spells, stuns, snares, dispersion giving 100% dodge, etc.

A massive talent overhaul. How do you get an ability that is VF at such a low level and literally not have a single talent affecting Void Eruption? I can think of so many ideas for it. Such wasted potential it's almost insane. The synergy between talents and abilities are either not there, forced, lackluster and/or have no thematic qualities. And what sucks to say we have no variance in talent builds.

I would also like a clear cut theme. Let's go all in for Void Stuff, idc, or all Shadow, but make it work and not have new or veteran players still ask or confused on what shadow is.

Lastly. There was a time that I cared only for progression. Now that I have a son, I can see how having long ramp ups including having to cast dots here and there doesn't help us in content that is lower than current including M+s.
I truly felt it and it came into realization when Seat of the Triumvirate came out and i'm running it on reg mythic with a friend, I was 925 and he a 897 DH and the only time I felt useful was at the end of a boss fight when my VF reached 30 but at the point the boss was dead. Themes, mechanics and rotations aside, that fucking sucks, every single time.

Thanks for reading, keep the ideas coming! I'm hoping in a xpac that totally captures me and I want it to be with my Spriest!

[Deleted]

I kind of hope they do something with max level talents, (or well any row of talents tbh)
1) A dot-less rotation (kind of akin to old *Mind spike*, useful for dungeons and stuff)
2) A keep *voidform* up for as long as possible rotation (akin to what we currently have - good for raids and bosses where you can stand and turret)
3) A more Dot focused style with an extra dot *Devouring plague*, moar dots. (useful for high movement or cleave fights)

Hopefully it'll be able to mean we can move around different talents and be useful on more things then just our niche. even if we are less powerful don't he ones that we are meant to not be, without being totally useless.

[Caladia]

I'm not the most creative like Yvaelle or others when coming up with new ability/talent names and descriptions. But there are a few things that would be very nice, if we were to keep to the current iteration of Shadow.

As RsinRC mentioned, row 1 (level 15) should really be about modifying Void Eruption and entering Voidform. Here we could have Legacy of the Void's ability to enter at 65 Insanity instead of 100, can remove the extra damage from VF. Then add 2 other talents that somehow play with Void Eruption or entering Voidform. That way there's choice for the player on how they want to interact.

I also agree with RsinRC on the theme of the spec, it would be nice if they fully committed to the Void or backed up and kept it more Shadowy themed.

Shadowcrash can go baseline with a talent row dedicated to modifying Shadowcrash. Add charges, have it apply 1 DoT (SW: Pain), and/or something else.

Give Mind Blast 2 charges baseline and remove the charge system from SW: Death. SW: Death needs to hit like a truck again, like a real execute ability should do and I feel this is a perfect trade off.

I don't think VF cycles should be as punishing as they are right now. Instead of VF having increased Haste the longer you're in it, just have it increase our damage by a lot more. The removal of +Haste along with the removal of the MH trait will mean that dropping VF at 20 stacks and 30 stacks is the same, outside of the 10s difference in +dmg. Because this by itself would lower overall damage, we can increase the +dmg provided by VF up to a level that makes sense for balance. If we still want some play off Haste, add some other passive to VF or interaction. /shrugs

Without the Haste effect, Lingering Insanity talent will no longer be needed. Maybe add a 3rd dot as a talent somewhere in there. Most of us that kept an eye on Shadow during Legion beta would really like that talent back that instantly gave us +100 Insanity so we could go into VF with the pull or whenever the CD let us there after. Continueing with previous suggestion and the loss of "ramp", this would allow us to take advantage of other buffs like every other class is able to such as with trinkets, hero/lust, etc.

Shadowfiend should either do a lot more damage along with Insanity generation for it being a 3m cd or Mindbender should be baseline at 60s cd with Insanity generation like it does now.


Thoughts and/or suggestions based on these? Would the removal of the +Haste be too much to remove from Voidform?

[itsDwindle]

you are terrible at Shadow priest.

I've personally accepted this fact. But, I'm trying to be better. It just feels like there is no middle ground. You either do well, or not. And, if there is a middle ground, I haven't found it yet.