Whoa:Over 1 Million Workers Have Received a Bonus Since The Trump Tax Bill Became Law

[Daelak]

Maybe for big corporations, but small businesses aren’t all just holding cash, that’s nonsense. I think you neglect how much of the economy is still small businesses

Small businesses cannot do anything worthwhile with a cut on personal business taxes, so that hurts your entire argument. Doesn't matter how large or small the business is, or what industry; we all need demand. Tax cuts don't do it because the lionshare of reduced tax burden falls on a) large multi-national corporations that already have hundreds of billions of dollars of cash languishing, or b) an extreme minority of people who's additional investment and consumption into the market is too miniscule to even have any effect on aggregate demand.

[Felya]

I mean the employee could buy stock with their bonus if that’s what they wanted.

They could, but when people are bitching about low pay, telling them to invest a one time bonus, isn’t going to help.

Corporations are not people though...

Trump's Tax Promises Undercut by CEO Plans to Help Investors
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ward-investors

Robert Bradway, chief executive of Amgen Inc., said in an Oct. 25 earnings call that the company has been “actively returning capital in the form of growing dividend and buyback and I’d expect us to continue that.” Executives including Coca-Cola CEO James Quincey, Pfizer Chief Financial Officer Frank D’Amelio and Cisco CFO Kelly Kramer have recently made similar statements.

“We’ll be able to get much more aggressive on the share buyback” after a tax cut, Kramer said in a Nov. 16 interview.

[satimy]

Small businesses cannot do anything worthwhile with a cut on personal business taxes, so that hurts your entire argument. Doesn't matter how large or small the business is, or what industry; we all need demand. Tax cuts don't do it because the lionshare of reduced tax burden falls on a) large multi-national corporations that already have hundreds of billions of dollars of cash languishing, or b) an extreme minority of people who's additional investment and consumption into the market is too miniscule to even have any effect on aggregate demand.

In calculating receipts from corporate income taxes, the IRS calculates that, as of 2009, corporations with $250 million or less in assets pay 75.4 percent of the total corporate tax revenue. With gross collections of approximately $225,482,000 from all corporations, that amounts to roughly $170,013,000 in corporate income tax revenue from smaller companies.


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/much-...ate-10576.html

What’s your source for the big corps paying the lions share?

[apepi]

And they would not have done this without that bill.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Maybe for big corporations, but small businesses aren’t all just holding cash, that’s nonsense. I think you neglect how much of the economy is still small businesses

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I mean the employee could buy stock with their bonus if that’s what they wanted.

Still a cop out. It's eventual that the market will shit the bed. Happens every 10 to 15 years and every time it happens we hear it won't because this time it's different. Plus in that situation big business wins again because the money they gave just comes right back.

I think in 2 or 3 years the current bubble will bust.

[satimy]

Still a cop out. It's eventual that the market will shit the bed. Happens every 10 to 15 years and every time it happens we hear it won't because this time it's different. Plus in that situation big business wins again because the money they gave just comes right back.

I think in 2 or 3 years the current bubble will bust.

Maybe it is a cop out, so is celebrating mass immigration and claiming to care about wages though

[Daelak]

In calculating receipts from corporate income taxes, the IRS calculates that, as of 2009, corporations with $250 million or less in assets pay 75.4 percent of the total corporate tax revenue. With gross collections of approximately $225,482,000 from all corporations, that amounts to roughly $170,013,000 in corporate income tax revenue from smaller companies.


http://smallbusiness.chron.com/much-...ate-10576.html

What’s your source for the big corps paying the lions share?

I meant that the additional funds they receive from the tax cut. Large multinational corporations already have tens of trillions of dollars languishing in banks all over the world. The only way to get them to utilize that cash is to create more demand.

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Maybe it is a cop out, so is celebrating mass immigration and claiming to care about wages though

Again, unless there is a sudden influx of 100 million immigrants that are accustomed to making $100,000 a year, there will be no noticeable effect of immigration on wages. If anything, immigration helps to boost the GDP growth due to keeping construction and other related industries/trades ability to build more.

[satimy]

I meant that the additional funds they receive from the tax cut. Large multinational corporations already have tens of trillions of dollars languishing in banks all over the world. The only way to get them to utilize that cash is to create more demand.

Why do you think that corporations move money overseas in the first place? Do you really attribute it to lack of demand? It’s to avoid being fucked by taxes relative to the rest of the world. Why would an increase in aggregate demand bring money home when as a big Corp you can finance it for extremely low amounts or even pay for it with current cash flow? Under you model that foreign money won’t be repatriated until it the finance market dries out entirely because financing is never going to be more expensive than 35% corporate tax

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I meant that the additional funds they receive from the tax cut. Large multinational corporations already have tens of trillions of dollars languishing in banks all over the world. The only way to get them to utilize that cash is to create more demand.

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Again, unless there is a sudden influx of 100 million immigrants that are accustomed to making $100,000 a year, there will be no noticeable effect of immigration on wages. If anything, immigration helps to boost the GDP growth due to keeping construction and other related industries/trades ability to build more.

Plenty of tech workers would disagree with you. H1b visas have fucked more Americans than Harvey Weinstein

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yea unfortunately I went to a university and not a Starbucks in Seattle to learn about economics. Lowering the tax burden and raising the potential profits increases the expected return on investment. No not every company is going to expand, but some will and the conditions for new firms to start is easier as well.

Yes, it helps the bottom line for shareholders. It does shit for the 50% of America who own no stocks, and it does very little for the 45% of America who own some stocks (And some are tricked into believing their $500k portfolio is "a lot of money"). The other 5% who actually own a significant amount of stocks, it's great for them. But when you run on policy of creating jobs and wage growth, then admit that trickle down only really helps shareholders, yeah, it doesn't help your case.

[Daelak]

Why do you think that corporations move money overseas in the first place? Do you really attribute it to lack of demand? It’s to avoid being fucked by taxes relative to the rest of the world. Why would an increase in aggregate demand bring money home when as a big Corp you can finance it for extremely low amounts or even pay for it with current cash flow? Under you model that foreign money won’t be repatriated until it the finance market dries out entirely because financing is never going to be more expensive than 35% corporate tax

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Plenty of tech workers would disagree with you. H1b visas have fucked more Americans than Harvey Weinstein

The money overseas are from profits made overseas, and they funnel a portion of the domestic profit overseas in order to entice developing economies to subsidize their plant costs, speculative projects, much like Foxconn is doing to Wisconsin currently.

It would bring trillions back if the economy was pivoted to make trillions in profits into 21st century industry, which would force them to invest in a neo-developing economy once again. The entire economy needs to go through a more efficient and carbon-neutral/free paradigm, which will invariably have to include trillions of new investment and the creation of new markets.

Actually you are talking in circles. The reason why H1B visas are used now is due to the critical shortage of workers technology companies have, and still have. If they didn't have that outlet to inject into the labor pool for technology workers, those companies would be overseas right now.

What conservatives don't understand is that immigration, regardless if it's undocumented or not, is the best weapon against our adversaries. Without dropping a bomb or instituting sanctions, we can drain their talent and their next generation workforce to ensure we keep global hegemony and unilaterally dictate where the global economy wants to invest.

[satimy]

Why would companies bring Money back to get taxed at a higher rate than they can domestically finance it for way cheaper?

[Krigaren]

Yeah, this isn't how bonuses work. Companies determine bonuses well ahead of time, and budget for them in that current fiscal quarter or year. Compound this with the fact that these companies won't see any of these tax benefits until they file their taxes in 2019 makes the likelihood that companies would, out of the blue, turn around and give out special "commemorative" bonuses within a week of congress passing the tax fraud bill is essentially zero. That's a huge hit to their profit margins for year end without a corresponding offset, which would mean a reduction in investor distribution outlays. Accounting and budgeting doesn't work like that.

Much more likely? These bonuses were already planned well in advance and were going to be given out anyway, and companies are leveraging the tax fraud's passing as a PR stunt to show how magnanimous they are. Even then, if you read the wording in the article, a lot of these companies were included for "giving out bonuses after the tax bill passed", but not necessarily as a result of it.

[Daelak]

Why would companies bring Money back to get taxed at a higher rate than they can domestically finance it for way cheaper?

Because the US economy would have all the upside of a developing economy, without the political and economic instability and lack of domestic labor to fill in those new jobs.

[satimy]

Because the US economy would have all the upside of a developing economy, without the political and economic instability and lack of domestic labor to fill in those new jobs.

Yea but they can still just finance it domestically and send the same profits overseas.

[Daelak]

Yea but they can still just finance it domestically and send the same profits overseas.

Why would they send their profits overseas to be repatriated when they could just invest it in the economy. Transforming our economy to be carbon neutral/free and subsidizing renewable energy and AI/bio-tech will make our economy drain the investment of foreign nations.

[Deleted]

worker bonuses that are less valuable that pay rises? lolers.

[Powerogue]

This sounds like the point where we note that a bonus is not the same as a raise, and the long term gains are still firmly in the hands of the CEOs and other higher-ups who bribed the politicians and received more than a comfortable return on investment over the next few years.

edit: Reading through the thread I didn't think about how people would be often receiving christmas bonuses anyway which could have gotten factored into the statistic, further distorting it.

[Felya]

Yea but they can still just finance it domestically and send the same profits overseas.

How is Trump a billionaire and owe hundreds of millions to a German bank?

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worker bonuses that are less valuable that pay rises? lolers.

... and with their current revenue, not the one after taxes. This is a bonus with money they already had, not gained from a 2018 tax year.

[Deleted]

Can we place our bets for a second term Trump already, or is it too soon?

[Mayhem]

No offense but I don’t really value your economic opinions. Companies do make money by employing people, that’s how capitalism works bro.

Great comedy right there, thanks.