Heroic Coven Fulminating Pulse Issues

[Crimbobbin]

So, we got to heroic coven last week and put an hour and a half of time on them, but we quickly noticed an issue. We run with 11 people, 3 heals. The healers are two resto druids and a mistweaver monk. How do you keep 3 people from dying to the pulse damage without having them use throughput heals all throughout the fight which cause them to go OoM 2 minutes in because they are all HoT healers and hots don't save you from Fulminating Pulse?

[Kluian05]

Druid can double rejuv each fulminating pulse target, and spec Abundance if they want to add more support direct healing via Healing Touch.

Fulminating pulse targets should use personals if they can to reduce the damage if other mechanics are going out at same time.

[Khallid]

If your healers go OoM then you need to run with 4 healers instead of 3. There's no way around Fulminating Pulse; it needs to be spot healed quickly. Running out of mana shows they are undergeared for the fight.

[Chaelexi]

If your healers go OoM then you need to run with 4 healers instead of 3. There's no way around Fulminating Pulse; it needs to be spot healed quickly. Running out of mana shows they are undergeared for the fight.

Can also have dps use Prydaz, if they are not already. It allows for groups to dampen some of healing checks.

[Kluian05]

If your healers go OoM then you need to run with 4 healers instead of 3. There's no way around Fulminating Pulse; it needs to be spot healed quickly. Running out of mana shows they are undergeared for the fight.

His raid is only 11 people, adding a 4th healer would be comical. Druids can have severe mana issues if played incorrectly. Since they are running 2, this is probably the case.

[Crimbobbin]

Druid can double rejuv each fulminating pulse target, and spec Abundance if they want to add more support direct healing via Healing Touch.

Fulminating pulse targets should use personals if they can to reduce the damage if other mechanics are going out at same time.

They were talking about speccing into Abundance so we'll see how that works tonight.

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If your healers go OoM then you need to run with 4 healers instead of 3. There's no way around Fulminating Pulse; it needs to be spot healed quickly. Running out of mana shows they are undergeared for the fight.

They're all in between 950-960, ilvl isn't the issue. They warned us that having them hard cast their throughput heals instead of waiting for proc's like they are supposed to would tank their mana, and it did.

[Puri]

Go for Moment of Clarity (huge mana saver) and Cenarion Ward (together with two rejuvs enough to heal a player) or Abundance.

[Kluian05]

They were talking about speccing into Abundance so we'll see how that works tonight.

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They're all in between 950-960, ilvl isn't the issue. They warned us that having them hard cast their throughput heals instead of waiting for proc's like they are supposed to would tank their mana, and it did.

Well if they are casting regrowth outside of OoC procs that is silly and will run them out of mana. Just have them spec abundance. They are going to need it as well in order to direct heal people quickly with the ice debuffs later in the fight so they aren't stunned for 6+ seconds.

[Smellyflute]

Any of the three first talents are useful for Fulminating Pulse, whether they take double swiftmend, cenarion ward, or abundance. they can use ghanir cd, they can use innervate, , they can use a mana trinket, etc. Def not the best setup for fulminating pulse, but def doable. Also, if they have their 4pc tier 21 (druid) that will help, adding dreamer to the mastery stacks, as well as beefing up their Wild Growth. The time to heal up fulminating pulse isn't super fast, you have plenty of time to ramp up your hots before the stun.

Also, running out of mana doesn't indicate they are undergeared for the fight. He's talking about using Regrowth to spot heal, which is profoundly mana inefficient, to bypass a mechanic. It does indicate they're not utilizing their toolkit, tho.

EDIT: I realized I made a mistake. I thought you were talking about Chilled Blood. For fulminating pulse, cenarion ward and germination should cover it. If your tanks are strong, you can use your lifebloom too to add a mastery stack, as well as ironbark for any healing cd gaps or overlapping mechanics. With the t21 2pc, you should have 3-7 mastery stacks between 2 rejuvs, lifebloom, dreamer, wildgrowth, cultivation, and regrowth. With 5 stacks @ 20% mastery, every druid hot is healing for 100% more. Fulminating pulse is a good amount of damage, but most classes have a defensive cd to help mitigate it. defensive cd + druid hots = much powah.

IMO, Chilled Blood is a much more cumbersome mechanic to deal with for a resto druid. Our group only runs one druid (me) and 3/4 other strong healers, so it's not a big deal for me personally, but a bad stun at the wrong time can be a death. If I was 3 healing it with another druid and a monk, I'd probably spec into ToL and save my innervate for that phase. Unless the person is already low health when the chilled blood debuff is applied, I don't think you'd get anything from Cultivation. You could also take soul of the forest, and empower your regrowths for that phase, but then you'd probably want to take x2 swiftmends for the first talent, losing Cenarion Ward for fulminating pulse. If you are running 2pc t20 this might be worth it, especially if you are casting empowered WG's during Fulminating Pulse and hitting all 3 targets.

[Khallid]

His raid is only 11 people, adding a 4th healer would be comical. Druids can have severe mana issues if played incorrectly. Since they are running 2, this is probably the case.

It's fine if it's comical but works, although I can only take your word about Druid mana. I know nothing about it, our Druid never has issues. Your explanation sounds reasonable.

I did an 11 man run of heroic (we had low attendance on Christmas :P) and it's ridiculous how badly tuned the raid is at lower group sizes. The last three bosses are significantly harder with a small group. Coven isn't even the worst, hard cc-ing the adds on Aggramar is a real pain for a 10-man raid, while it's usually a joke for a 20-man raid.

[Crimbobbin]

It's fine if it's comical but works, although I can only take your word about Druid mana. I know nothing about it, our Druid never has issues. Your explanation sounds reasonable.

I did an 11 man run of heroic (we had low attendance on Christmas :P) and it's ridiculous how badly tuned the raid is at lower group sizes. The last three bosses are significantly harder with a small group. Coven isn't even the worst, hard cc-ing the adds on Aggramar is a real pain for a 10-man raid, while it's usually a joke for a 20-man raid.

Aggramar was the fight I was dreading, didn't figure we'd get blocked at Coven so hard. The only other difficult fight for us was High Command but we removed some fail people and it's easy now, but even then, nothing has caused as many wipes as Coven for us so far.

[Eli85]

Druid healers talenting into Abundance, in my opinion, is really bad advice. Cenarion Ward is a much better talent for Coven, and if you're thinking Abundance for more Regrowths (specifically un-proc'd to spot heal), you will run into severe mana issues. If their iLevel is between 950 and 960, the double Rejuvs from the two Druid healers alone will be enough, never mind what help the other healer gives. If you're still having issues with Fulminating Pulse, the problem is likely either i) Fulminating Pulse targets are being hit by avoidable damage and / or ii) there are some problems with stat weights and / or execution from the healers.

Not much else can be said without logs, but generally speaking, if anyone is dying from Fulminating Pulse, the healers just need to play better.

[Khallid]

Aggramar was the fight I was dreading, didn't figure we'd get blocked at Coven so hard. The only other difficult fight for us was High Command but we removed some fail people and it's easy now, but even then, nothing has caused as many wipes as Coven for us so far.

I would say Coven is actually harder than Aggramar in heroic. Coven has some really nasty overlaps and getting through Fulminating Pulse is not even half of it. The deadliest ability in that fight is actually Aman'thul's torment. If the adds don't die before they cast you're screwed. Ideally you need to get two adds down before the first cast is over, otherwise the stacks go too high and you all die. If you have any dead dps before Aman'thul comes up you're not likely to make it. Even if done correctly it still overlaps with everything else, so Aman'thul's Torment is very healing intensive. Norgannon's torment can also be a pain in the ass if you don't have good cc, but since your group has two druid healers you should be able to root half of the adds with just the druids.

The issue with Aggramar is that it's that the amount of adds is the same no matter what raid size you have. You need at least 4 adds permanently crowd controlled, plus a fifth one stunned for about 20 seconds. That is really easy to do with a large raid size, but if you don't have the right classes, a 10-man raid is pretty screwed. Add to that DK's grips are super useful at managing the adds when you need to break them, and the smaller the raid the less likely you have spare DKs.

[Dogooder]

We had the same issues because we run a 10 to 12 man raid and basically what we found on Heroic this tier is more healers more easy. We did 4 healers with 12 people and killed Coven. Same thing with Aggramar after. 4 Healers with 12 people. Earlier on in the tier we had the same issue with 2 healers. Once we added a 3rd the middle bosses become a cakewalk.

[Crimbobbin]

Got it tonight after 15 pulls, 3 healed 10 man. Thanks for all your suggestions!

[Alvito]

It's fine if it's comical but works, although I can only take your word about Druid mana. I know nothing about it, our Druid never has issues. Your explanation sounds reasonable.

I did an 11 man run of heroic (we had low attendance on Christmas :P) and it's ridiculous how badly tuned the raid is at lower group sizes. The last three bosses are significantly harder with a small group. Coven isn't even the worst, hard cc-ing the adds on Aggramar is a real pain for a 10-man raid, while it's usually a joke for a 20-man raid.

When you have a smaller group size for that fight and can't cc you just 3 shot an add and let the 18 sec timer be it's cc.

[Raone]

So, we got to heroic coven last week and put an hour and a half of time on them, but we quickly noticed an issue. We run with 11 people, 3 heals. The healers are two resto druids and a mistweaver monk. How do you keep 3 people from dying to the pulse damage without having them use throughput heals all throughout the fight which cause them to go OoM 2 minutes in because they are all HoT healers and hots don't save you from Fulminating Pulse?

Sadly this fight is a victim of not being tested properly by Blizzard as there is 3 fulminating pulses in 30 man, and 3 fulminating pulses in 10 man, they do the exact same amount of damage regardless of difficulty as well. Eventually Blizzard will play their game and fix it, till then you just have to spam heal those players and make sure the players with the debuff use CD's when it overlaps with any other mechanic (like storm, or titans). Our guild had a lot of issues with this fight when we did it on an extra night and only had 10 people on for it and didn't kill it. When our main run got to it however, we killed it after a couple attempts because we 5 healed it (20man). Its annoyingly a fight that is easier with more healers because of poor scaling due to bad blizzard testing.

[Caprix]

So, we got to heroic coven last week and put an hour and a half of time on them, but we quickly noticed an issue. We run with 11 people, 3 heals. The healers are two resto druids and a mistweaver monk. How do you keep 3 people from dying to the pulse damage without having them use throughput heals all throughout the fight which cause them to go OoM 2 minutes in because they are all HoT healers and hots don't save you from Fulminating Pulse?

Gratz for the 10men kill, i'll still give some advice for the MW part. MW single target hot (envelopping mist) absolutely saves you from fulminating pulse. Don't hesitate to wear a bit more haste and mastery than your usual crit/poly focused raiding gear. Use velen and mana tea on pulse if aman'thul adds will not pop soon. Use coven trinket if you have it. Put an envm on each affected players then effuse/vivify if needed. Both the raw healing and healing buff of Envm is not often useful in raids but it absolutely is in this case.


Go mistwrap if you have trouble keeping people alive through the pulse or trouble healing the absorb debuff, but if mana is the concern, go sotc instead, there is plenty of downtime between pulses, you can go melee regen a lot in this fight, this gives a lot of room to spam during pulses/absorbs/aman'thul

[Spotnick]

So, we got to heroic coven last week and put an hour and a half of time on them, but we quickly noticed an issue. We run with 11 people, 3 heals. The healers are two resto druids and a mistweaver monk. How do you keep 3 people from dying to the pulse damage without having them use throughput heals all throughout the fight which cause them to go OoM 2 minutes in because they are all HoT healers and hots don't save you from Fulminating Pulse?

Mistweavers are not hot healers. We have hots, but the majority of our healing is direct healing from Essence Font and Vivify.

You simply do Vivify on those targets and it tops them off.. plus if those people aren't idiots, they should use a defensive cooldown.

[thunderdragon2]

if ur raiders arent using prydaz on that fight they are doing it wrong