Star Wars - Where’s the magic gone?

[AtomicSpoon]

''Mostly good'' EU content?

I'm sorry, apart from Zahn's handiwork all the EU stuff I've read or seen was absolute trash that makes TLJ (a fairly mediocre film) look like a masterpiece.

Quite a bit of PBY content was solid. Stories about lesser known characters, or expanding on some of the ones you only see on screen for a small amount of time. Some of it was garbage (Yuzhan Vong bullshit comes to mind) but there was a lot of good to outweigh the bad.

I didn't care for Rey at all as a character, I didn't care for Anakin as a character either, but Rey felt very forced into the story.

[Magistrate]

I'd even take issue with "inability to cope with new ideas". She told Poe his idea was a stupid-ass idea, and that there was a plan, and didn't give him information because he'd already royally fucked up, gotten his squadron killed, and gotten demoted for it.

I'll also note that it's a plan that was working flawlessly, until Poe and friends fucked it up. If they had done nothing, the Resistance would've escaped intact. Instead, they got half the Resistance killed and the First Order knows they're still active and they no longer have a base to rebuild from. They lost that because Poe was a stupid ass who didn't trust his command structure.

Poe's stubbornness lost them I think more than half of their fleet right in the beginning. But neither Poe nor Holdo's plan would have succeeded because the First Order was tracking them through light speed, so they couldn't have escaped, anyway. They might have reached Crait, but they would have reached them just the same (and used the same weapon they used on the base destroyed in the beginning of the movie on Crait). The only reason they survived in the end is because Holdo sacrificed herself to destroy the dreadnought at last minute (still making this up, no idea what the ship was called), and Luke played on Kylo's anger and obsession to distract the entirety of their forces while the remaining resistance fighters retreated.

Ultimately, I think the Poe-Holdo conflict reflects the fact that new world couldn't be won by old ideas, and that's also the growing story of the balance of Dark/Light force with Rey. Holdo came into adulthood serving the Republic as a legislator in the Imperial Senate--her mindset for how war and tactics should work likely came from a world that was obsolete. She tried to run the resistance in Leia's absence without the finesse and give-and-take that Leia did.

Holdo's plan after they discovered they had only one more jump and the Order would track them anyway did not change. She pushed obstinately for Crait and turned away Finn and Poe's new information of the tracker, as well as Poe's proposition to send a small team to take it out. Poe is brash, doesn't plan well, and that's all true, but she ignored good intel and didn't adapt. Her strategy did buy them time, but it also got them stuck.

I think the Poe-Finn thing really harkens back to 4-6--the resistance won by many small victories, guerilla tactics, and unconventional means. Holdo's stubbornness was only redeemed by her single-minded determination and self-sacrificial nature. Her strategy led to where they were, yes, but she also destroyed the ship with the only nearby weapon that could have nuked their new base.

I guess that's a lot of rambling, but I guess my point I was aiming for was that Holdo wasn't bad or necessarily even wrong, but I think she represented an old world whose rules no longer applied (the Republic).

All your other things: yes xD

[Master Guns]

"The force is female."
Firing directors left and right cause of 'creative differences'.

Yeah, I'm sure she's just looking out for Lucas' creation.

Talking about things you know nothing about is fun, isn't it?

Kathleen Kennedy fired the original director for a very valid reason - he was unwilling to cooperate with the people giving him the money to do what he wanted, to take extra shots, extra time, and extra angles, something Disney (and Kathleen, in turn) demanded, and he told them they were idiots. He even called Kathleen Kennedy an idiot to her face. I mean, what did you think was going to happen?

Any director who acts like that is going to get fired.

[Sorshen]

Any director who acts like that is going to get fired.

Of course. Doesn't mean he wasn't right about her being an idiot.

[Shadowferal]

Quite a bit of PBY content was solid. Stories about lesser known characters, or expanding on some of the ones you only see on screen for a small amount of time. Some of it was garbage (Yuzhan Vong bullshit comes to mind) but there was a lot of good to outweigh the bad. I didn't care for Rey at all as a character, I didn't care for Anakin as a character either, but Rey felt very forced into the story.

You're kinda hitting the nail on the head with one of my problems...this 2-dimensional unrealistic character called "Rey."
Jin Erso was raised in a shitty situation and was embittered..that felt real. It had depth.
Unlike Rey..

[Rukario]

Well, the magic hasn't gone anywhere...the new movies are just a joke, they are just doing what episodes IV - VI did, but much worse.

The story didn't progress at all, they were "written" in a way that makes the victory of the rebels and Luke at episode VI completely irrelevant.
There were infinite possibilities for the new episodes and yet we got that shit show...

[Master Guns]

You're kinda hitting the nail on the head with one of my problems...this 2-dimensional unrealistic character called "Rey."
Jin Erso was raised in a shitty situation and was embittered..that felt real. It had depth.
Unlike Rey..

Rey's hopeless optimism is kind of getting annoying.

It's like..the fuck are you excited about?

[Deleted]

Nothing is missing. The new movies are good star wars movies. Period.
When I went to the cinema and people were already complaining about the previous movie when I was standing in line for tickets I almost slapped them in the face. Gloryfying the first movies is the same like gloryfying vanilla wow. We all love them, it's ok to love them...but when you look at it without nostalgia glasses you see a cheesy and not very original plot, poor acting etc etc...

this hurts so much. Ep7 and 8 are both awful. If you dont understand why... Ah well i bet you can use google or youtube

[Wolfman31]

Jar Jar Abrams killed it

[Mormolyce]

"The force is female."
Firing directors left and right cause of 'creative differences'.

Yeah, I'm sure she's just looking out for Lucas' creation.

I'd rather it was female than made of bugs.

I'm not sure Lucas was looking out for Lucas' creation.

[Tabrotar]

I have torrented episode 7 (because no way i´m giving Disney any money after they axed the EU) and it was one of my worst wasted time i ever wasted fucking stupid characters (Rey the mary sue Finn who just was there so that they had a black actor) no originality (almost a 1 to 1 retelling of a new hope) and fucking acting (the only good scene was where that one Trooper almost killed Finn with his baton) and last but not least an absolutly fucking disgusting enemy in form of Kylo who was only intimitading as long as he had his mask on as soon as he lost it the only thing i could do was laughing at his fucking stupid face everytime i seen it.

[Morae]

I can still accept the star wars that came before disney. Now? Nope... hellll no.

[Deleted]

this hurts so much. Ep7 and 8 are both awful. If you dont understand why... Ah well i bet you can use google or youtube

And those articles and videos on why 7 and 8 are awful aren't facts, they're opinions. Just like it's my opinion that 7 and 8, despite their flaws, are still well made movies and just as enjoyable as 1-6.

And the poster you quoted is right, people glorify the original trilogy as if it was flawless, when in reality the movies were just as flawed as any other star wars movie. But that kinda adds to the charm of them all.

[Mojo03]

Talking about things you know nothing about is fun, isn't it?

Kathleen Kennedy fired the original director for a very valid reason - he was unwilling to cooperate with the people giving him the money to do what he wanted, to take extra shots, extra time, and extra angles, something Disney (and Kathleen, in turn) demanded, and he told them they were idiots. He even called Kathleen Kennedy an idiot to her face. I mean, what did you think was going to happen?

Any director who acts like that is going to get fired.

Do you have evidence?

Or are you talking about things you actually know nothing about?

Just saying.

[Sorshen]

I'd rather it was female than made of bugs.

I'm not sure Lucas was looking out for Lucas' creation.

Well, Lucas spawned Anakin from the will of the midi-chlorians, aka his ass.
Disney spawned Rey from the will of the twitter masses to have a flawless female protagonist. That sells well in doll/action figure size.

[Tabrotar]

I'm sorry your basement Star Wars fan fiction isn't cannon, but you all need to get over it.

Wait what?

Because i don´t like the fucking awfull stuff Disney is creating i´m at fault here?

Nice logic "Wah wah mommy mommy the bad bad child there don´t like what i like do something about it wah wah"

[Master Guns]

Do you have evidence?

Or are you talking about things you actually know nothing about?

Just saying.

Sorry, nice bait. But you can look it up yourself. If you want. I don't want to look it up for you, you're just a troll who wants things handed to him. Google.com

And to be honest, it's pretty common knowledge, even a lengthy multi-page long discussion about it in the actual star wars thread.

[Moon-Man]

SW magic died with prequels.

[I Push Buttons]

Ritual question : what exactly the Imperials would have to do in the OT to look more like Space Nazis ? Having a musical routine in which they talk about goose stepping ?

"Allegorical Nazis are bad, m'kay" is hardly political commentary. If you need to be hand held to the conclusion that Nazis are bad, you are probably a pretty bad person.

Not to mention that everyone, even Disney, has embraced those "Nazis"... Or have you missed decades of people dressing up as Stormtroopers and Vader being the most popular character of the franchise... Disney World literally has shows where kids go up on stage and join the dark side (aka join the allegorical Nazis).

The Empire wasn't made to mirror Nazis as a political statement... It mirrored Nazis because the Empire is evil and Nazis are a model of evil incarnate.

If you've watched the previous SW movies and not thought they're political commentary, you're both deaf and blind.

Apart from the "fear causing you to grant unlimited powers to the government to protect you has severe consequences" of the prequels... Not really.

And that in and of itself is hardly political commentary, more like contemporary commentary of 2001-2004. If it was a Democrat in power after 9/11 stuff like the PATRIOT Act would have probably still happened and the same kind of commentary would have happened. So its not like it was "political" in that it portrayed any particular side in a positive or negative light, merely underscored the threat of signing away your rights for protection.

Where as the new trilogy literally has dialogue like "I'm tired of cocky flyboys! I am a stronk woman and you will listen to me!" "Rich people are evil!" Legit no beating around the bush, no subtext... Its not even political commentary really, its political ham-fisting.

Then you have all the interviews and press releases where they talk ad nauseum about the politics they wish to convey with the films.

[Shadowferal]

Rey's hopeless optimism is kind of getting annoying. It's like..the fuck are you excited about?

*nods*
There was never that much of that sort in any of the prior movies.