Blizzard should do the right thing and disable the Raider.io addon's functionality

[Deleted]

So i can't use raider.io because my mainchars armory-site is buggy (won't update since middle of Tomb).
What do i do?

Scoring-addons should be banned as long as it won't work properly for all players.

Oh: and i'm having hard times getting an invite for a group because my profile (both, raider.io and warcraftlogs) is shit.
And i can't do anything about it.

[Deleted]

I never put in any requirements whatsoever. I do screen using Raider.io and take the best on offer in the time I'm willing to wait, and that time will depend on the level of the key. For low keys this is often first come first served, for anything above 12 there will be some selection, don't care about your ilvl but hopefully something that shows you will know the pulls of the instance. For anything above 15 I want you to have run the dungeon on at least a 13, any other on a 16 or if none of that have a minimal decent M+ score on this or your main.

When I pug myself I always use the addon to check the leader. Typical and predictable, I never join 'Big Dicks only' (talk about toxic) groups, don't care if leader has 4K. 'Fast and EZ 17' typically has a leader that has never run anything over 12. 'Checking Wowprogress' typically has a leader with <1K score. 'ilvl 960+ group' typically has no recorded M+ history whatsoever and bound to fail hard, and 'link (insert random non-M+-achievement or god forbid 'keymaster') are the worst.

I started to look at those who set up such funny requirements and can confirm the above. My personal ignore list is growing painlessly though, as I find it ok to own-blacklist people who have lower scores and achievments than my alts, expect 2-5 times higher scores and achievments than their mains and decline me to tank when I actually meet their idiotic criteria. Time well saved from toxicity and idiots.
I also tend to just quickly leave any party where I see any form of hostility in chat, especially before anything has even begun. Early warning signals for bad times head.

[Charge me Doctor]

How do you know?

Well, because i've never seen a key burn down because of failed run in months, and the only ones that weren't finished in time were 17-20 ones on crazy bosses with tyrannical affix, like cathedral, BRH or DHT.

Well there was also a shaman-guy who couldn't "purge" the orb of allies (EoA) in the very first roll of mythic+ dungeons, but it took literally 1 death and 20 seconds for him to pull proper spell out of spellbook.

Then you have a 940 DH "2500 score inv" guy for upper kara who doesn't cleave sparks on curator and wipes us on the Medivh two times in a row. So... i'm still very skeptical about this "tool"

And two days ago we had a really good warlock who runs only VotW for some relic titanforges (and does it a lot, since i added him to a list of players i'll be doing m+ with i see him there every day), probably his score is shit because of that, but he definitely knows how to play this game properly

[Deleted]

So i can't use raider.io because my mainchars armory-site is buggy (won't update since middle of Tomb).
What do i do?

Scoring-addons should be banned as long as it won't work properly for all players.

Oh: and i'm having hard times getting an invite for a group because my profile (both, raider.io and warcraftlogs) is shit.
And i can't do anything about it.

Your issue is not with addons, but their source - armoury.

[Jastall]

I've just gotten used to leading my own keys on my alts, I demand 940, preferably KSM and never had it not complete. For some of the harder dungeons (IE Tyra Halls or Forti Arcway) I just ask a few questions before I begin so as to make sure the tank in particular knows his shit, since they're usually the ones that make or break runs. Usually works out quite well, sometimes some people are ignorant of the minutia of a dungeon but they won't learn if I just look at some stupid score and boot them. I'm tired of the M+ pug community, it's growing to be even more idiotic than the raid pug community.

[Deleted]

Blizzard just including a ''best M+ done this season'' into the pug finder or something.

I'd rather have Blizz add more information though. For current toon and main: highest key total (with affixes and role), highest in time key in queued dungeon for current affix, highest in time key in queued dungeon with current role, how often 10+ in time/failed, how often 15+ in time/failed, how often 20+ in time/failed. You can bake this into a simple system of bagdes, medals, colours, tabards, names, whatever. Xavius' golden grandmaster of tanks. Wrath's initiate healing beacon. Whatever. Just not "here's my ilvl, here's my main's or faked achievment link, you can waste the next 40+ minutes of your life with me now - wanna try?".

[HuxNeva]

Well, because i've never seen a key burn down because of failed run in months, and the only ones that weren't finished in time were 17-20 ones on crazy bosses with tyrannical affix, like cathedral, BRH or DHT.

This keeps getting better. Someone at Blizzard must be your personal guardian angle of luck.
Now your ilvl930 auto-accept groups are already finishing 17-20 Cathedral's, BRH's and DHT's on Tyrannical weeks?
So sad they are still not recorded at all on the boards. Ever.

You do realize that a finished tyrannical lvl20 Cathedral run would still place you near the top 1000 runs of that instance ever?

[Charge me Doctor]

This keeps getting better. Someone at Blizzard must be your personal guardian angle of luck.
Now your ilvl930 auto-accept groups are already finishing 17-20 Cathedral's, BRH's and DHT's on Tyrannical weeks?
So sad they are still not recorded at all on the boards. Ever.

You do realize that a finished tyrannical lvl20 Cathedral run would still place you near the top 1000 runs of that instance ever?

Nah, 930 people don't queue for something higher than 15, it's usually full of 950-960 players. I could grab couple of 930 alts but it's a recipe for a disaster.
It's really hard to get your level 20 19 60m+ cathedral run recorded when there are tens of dozens of players who reliably clear them way faster.

I don't actually recall even finishing 20 cathedral in time, we definitely burned it down to 18 and finished that way.

Again, if you are able to break ~20 minute 19 keys or 20+ keys in 40 minutes you'll get into the ladder, if you don't - you won't. Without full balanced premade group of reliable 960+ players it's impossible

[Deleted]

Your issue is not with addons, but their source - armoury.

I can't use the addon because my character can't be tracked.
So other players avoid me. This is an serious issue.

[ItsTiddles]

I can't use the addon because my character can't be tracked.
So other players avoid me. This is an serious issue.

That is still on Blizzard's part, though. Have you tried to get the problem fixed by a GM?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I played classic also. I never got inspected on my dwarf warrior or undead mage to any group. And I probally ran UBR over 12 times to get the draco reflector for raiding. My mage got into Onyxia pugs almost every week and all people asked were attuned.

There was no real dps checks back in the day at all. Was also never asked to do ZG either.

I have no idea what elitist A holes would do that back then. I never encountered them once.

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Sorry I can never respect someone asking dps to be mythic geared for a stupid +15 key. I can't respect such a wrong way to do things. It is cancerous and terrible for the community doing this.

Cancer is expecting other people to play their game for your satisfaction. They have as much right to enjoy their game as you do. Some of these people have worked hard to earn their expertise and their gear. If they choose to game with other players who have put in the same effort, why is that your concern? Unless they've suddenly become your employees, it's none of your business. If I want to start a group farming old legacy raids, and put in requirement that only players whose names begin with Z are invited, that's my business. You are free to start as many groups as you want using auto-accept and helping all the lowbies you can find, and kudos that's your business. My game time does not belong to you.

[Deleted]

Cancer is expecting other people to play their game for your satisfaction. They have as much right to enjoy their game as you do. Some of these people have worked hard to earn their expertise and their gear. If they choose to game with other players who have put in the same effort, why is that your concern? Unless they've suddenly become your employees, it's none of your business. If I want to start a group farming old legacy raids, and put in requirement that only players whose names begin with Z are invited, that's my business. You are free to start as many groups as you want using auto-accept and helping all the lowbies you can find, and kudos that's your business. My game time does not belong to you.

Every community has cancerous communities that ruin the experience for everyone. If this was Overwatch these said people will be banned for their toxic nature in a heartbeat. But yes its their money, they can choose to be cancerous if they desire. They should just understand their actions create a worse environment.

[Deleted]

What's cancer is signing up for the Arcway fort as warrior and never use shockwave. What's cancerous is to die repeatedly as healer on Vizdum and ruin a 2-chest. RaiderIO minimizes probability of such unpleasant people joining our groups and for that we're grateful.

[Charge me Doctor]

They should just understand their actions create a worse environment.

And then we get all these "bring back vanilla community it was so good!" arguments. Frankly, it often comes from people who indulge in activities that ruin experience for new or inexperienced players, instead of helping them out...

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What's cancer is signing up for the Arcway fort as warrior and never use shockwave.

Is it too hard to type in "warrior pls use shockwave on packs"? Usually it works for me

What's cancerous is to die repeatedly as healer on Vizdum and ruin a 2-chest. RaiderIO minimizes probability of such unpleasant people joining our groups and for that we're grateful.

Vizaduum is a tricky fight and i don't understand how dying on it is exclusive to a healer.
It doesn't minimizes probability of unpleasant people joining your group tho. "Unpleasantry" is not a metric that any API can track. All you do with raider.io is throw a baby out with the bath water. Many players at lower gear scale or lower score scale are actually good players and you just put them out of equation with the bad ones. Certainly there are cases when you don't want to bring an undergeared player into a pug run (mostly because of mechanics that make it impossible for them to survive the fight without external cooldowns). It's akin to kicking out a player on the coven fight for some 970 windwalker monk torpedoing through him/warrior "jumping over" (for fucks sake i still don't get it how so many warrior players don't understand that leap is not a blink) and killing him with a chain lightening strike.

There are still the only good way to tell a bad player from a good one is to play with them.

Yesterday i've been to a aggramar normal raid where a healer was kicked out of being thrown away from a platform. After 15 minutes of waiting RL re-invited said healer from LFG like nothing happened and boss died on a second pull... wasting 15 minutes for literally everyone in the raid. This "1 mistake kick", "960+ only", "score 2300+" attitude kinda ruins good time for everyone.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Every community has cancerous communities that ruin the experience for everyone. If this was Overwatch these said people will be banned for their toxic nature in a heartbeat. But yes its their money, they can choose to be cancerous if they desire. They should just understand their actions create a worse environment.

Sounds to me like you are talking about yourself.

[Theholypally]

And then we get all these "bring back vanilla community it was so good!" arguments. Frankly, it often comes from people who indulge in activities that ruin experience for new or inexperienced players, instead of helping them out...

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Is it too hard to type in "warrior pls use shockwave on packs"? Usually it works for me

Vizaduum is a tricky fight and i don't understand how dying on it is exclusive to a healer.
It doesn't minimizes probability of unpleasant people joining your group tho. "Unpleasantry" is not a metric that any API can track. All you do with raider.io is throw a baby out with the bath water. Many players at lower gear scale or lower score scale are actually good players and you just put them out of equation with the bad ones. Certainly there are cases when you don't want to bring an undergeared player into a pug run (mostly because of mechanics that make it impossible for them to survive the fight without external cooldowns). It's akin to kicking out a player on the coven fight for some 970 windwalker monk torpedoing through him/warrior "jumping over" (for fucks sake i still don't get it how so many warrior players don't understand that leap is not a blink) and killing him with a chain lightening strike.

There are still the only good way to tell a bad player from a good one is to play with them.

Yesterday i've been to a aggramar normal raid where a healer was kicked out of being thrown away from a platform. After 15 minutes of waiting RL re-invited said healer from LFG like nothing happened and boss died on a second pull... wasting 15 minutes for literally everyone in the raid. This "1 mistake kick", "960+ only", "score 2300+" attitude kinda ruins good time for everyone.

Except none of that is toxic.

Whats toxic is players with your mindset (other people should just take me at my word with no proof of experience.) Other players of similar score want to (and in most cases prefer) similar scored players for pushing M+ content. It's just that simple.

I cleared my first 19 upper key tonight and two chested it. I wasn't invited because i told them to "trust me."

I was getting denied to everything until i actually pushed my score up. Try doing that instead of pretending to be a victim.

I have come to understand that while M+ score system is being abused by plenty of people, its a system that does make sense and you adapt to it. I did, so will you.

[Deleted]

Every dungeon in 15 will result around 2k pts. For 3700 you need to do every dungeon in 20+

On a very high populated server like mine (Blackrock-EU), you get very lucky if you rank with a 15. Most of the time you have to run mythics+ very early in the week to get a top100 ranking. On easy affixes weeks Top100 starts at +17 here. Top 10 are 22-24 most of the time.

[Charge me Doctor]

Except none of that is toxic.

Whats toxic is players with your mindset (other people should just take me at my word with no proof of experience.) Other players of similar score want to (and in most cases prefer) similar scored players for pushing M+ content. It's just that simple.

I cleared my first 19 upper key tonight and two chested it. I wasn't invited because i told them to "trust me."

I was getting denied to everything until i actually pushed my score up. Try doing that instead of pretending to be a victim.

I have come to understand that while M+ score system is being abused by plenty of people, its a system that does make sense and you adapt to it. I did, so will you.

No, it is toxic. Denying people because they don't fit your group composition is one thing, denying people that do not meet an arbitrary requirement based on a broken and exploitable system (which they also, possibly, don't even know about) is completely different. You yourself suffered from that toxicity and decided that you had to abide, while in reality you don't. It's the literally same story as it was with gearscore addon.

I have no incentive to "push my score up", because i have no issues with running keys and forming groups. I grab whatever people are available from guild/friendlist and fill spots with whoever we feel appropriate to pick for said dungeon. The whole reasoning behind "pushing your score" doesn't make any sense, at least with gearscore it made some sense, because you could use it to measure raw character power of one individual minus optimization. And with this? I'll start actually checking people i invite on raider.io just to see how many of them will do asspulls, get interrupted on quacking, don't block AoE spells by breaking LoS or don't pop personals.

I'm probably really lucky these days but i've never been denied a 15-17 key (i didn't even try to get into something higher because it's stupid to do with randoms, just like trying to clear mythic raid in a pug) run in rare occasions when i couldn't find enough people to start forming a group. Maybe its perks of russian realms, i don't know. Raider.io and wowprogress score isn't taken seriously by most russians i've been playing with

It's fine if it works for you, but systems like these are very dangerous for a community as whole - new people must play with better players simply to learn from them, denying them this ability is simply wrong. And no, i'm not talking about "carrying" someone over keys, i'm talking about educating (aka, showing) them how to cooperate and what to do in the dungeons.

[Meanshield]

Really? 17Pages on this terrible subject. For those wanting only outrageously good people for Mythic Keystone's they should be allowed. And if You're not that high on score, that's really only your own fault.

[Dracodraco]

It's fine if it works for you, but systems like these are very dangerous for a community as whole - new people must play with better players simply to learn from them, denying them this ability is simply wrong. And no, i'm not talking about "carrying" someone over keys, i'm talking about educating (aka, showing) them how to cooperate and what to do in the dungeons.

Better players should have a say in if they want to be used as "educators" for new people to "learn" from. This addon gives them that option. Otherwise, what you're advocating is simply "you play well so you should be ok with grouping with people that play worse than you, so you can teach them to play better". That's not actually *fun* for the better player unless they signed up for that experience - and by proxy, it's probably not going to be "fun" for the new player either, because they're going to get so much shit thrown at them by the person you want them to "learn" from.

Think of it from a sports point of view. Doesn't even have to be competitive. Say you're at a family gathering.

There's a bunch of kids there - tons of them in the 8-12 age range, and a few older kids are 15-16. They all decide to go play football. This is fun for the whole family - it doesn't matter that a 16 year old is on a team with an 8 year old, because this is something they chose to do to have fun. One of the older kids might even be able to teach the younger ones a few tricks, because he's been playing football since he was younger than them, and actually plays competitively - has a few tournament wins under his belt and everything.
Everyone's happy. This was a good experience. The young ones learnt, the old ones taught, happy and contempt, warm fuzzy feelings.


Cue next monday. The 16 year old shows up for training, expecting to really have to push himself because he's amongst peers that plays football at the same level as he does. Except instead of his peers, he sees that he's surrounded by 10 year olds and one or two other 16 year olds. They go and ask the coach "the fuck?", and he goes:
"Yea, we decided to mix the different age groups and leagues together - this way, the younger ones can learn from you older, experienced guys as you play!".
"Uuuh... Okay, this is a one time thing right? Didn't know we'd have an event tonight, but sure, can do I guess".
"Oh no, this is the roster now. Those are your team mates. Gotta play the tournament next weekend with them, guess you better hope they learn quick!".


How fun do you think that'll actually be. In an "I'm enjoying myself and wish this would never end"-sort of way. Not in a "holy shit this is so fucking far out that it's actually funny" kind of way.


This addon allows you to get a good idea of what "league" people belong to. Is it perfect? No. Nobody's claiming that.
Is it better than just blindly inviting people and hoping you *don't* end up with a team of 10 year olds? Abso fucking lutely. That's not why I sign up for a 20 key.