Leveling DPS -Gone!

[owbu]

Okay, I get that there is a group of people, that really hates leveling, but has to do it, since its not optional. It makes perfect sense for them to define their best levling experience as "as short as possible". If these people had a "ding to 100!" button, they would press it immediatly.
There is also a group that likes to level and wants it to be actual gameplay instead of some weird compromise, where everyone loses (leveling haters still have to do it, but leveling fans cant enjoy the faceroll). Those people would not press this button and they like these changes.

Is there a third group, that actually likes leveling, would not press the "ding to 100!" button, but also wants it to be faceroll? Because if thats not the case, the solution to this problem seems pretty obvious. And its not to return to the terrible "misery for everyone!" compromise we had for the last 5 years.

[Byucknah The Red]

The developers are not solely to blame. Look how quickly people jumped on my post to mindlessly defend the changes. How much do you want to bet those same people have yet to level a new character since 7.3.5 dropped? I guess it wouldn't matter anyway, those type of people will tell themselves whatever they need to in order to pretend everything Blizzard does is "right".

You have yet to give any valid arguments and instead simply attack people.

I personally gave my argument, that the content feels good and solid again, that bosses are actually bosses with mechanics and the dungeons feel legitimate now so that when people who are new to the game are leveling they have a clearer idea of what the end game experience will be like. That 1-100 does not feel like dog crap and actually feels the same as the 100-110 experience! It feels like a game now, and as these pages show, the majority so far agree. Now you are trying to invalidate the fact that the vocal majority here are saying your wrong by going "Where are your facts to back this up?" when LITERALLY you have not given ANY argument as to WHY these changes are bad.

Its literally borderline trolling at this point as you have provided literally NOTHING constructive to the argument with bold face statements like "Look how quickly people jumped on my post to mindlessly defend the changes". No one is mindlessly defending anything, you have literally contributed NOTHING to the argument at all but are barking for others to back their point with facts that outside of player testimony, as seen here by the other posters, there is no way to effectively do. You have made no arguments as to how this is bad aside from, via your orignal post, stating that "We did." and implying the argument of since you already did it then it should be improved for no one.

An argument can also be maid that its enjoyable to max level players as well, and I base this off of my own personal opinion and I don't say this to try and speak for others.

I have a 954 Ret Paladin (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...n/bovinedivine), I am nearing the cap of where I am going to get with him on this expansion and have no interest of plans of trying to push excedingly high keys or going above Heroic when it comes to the raid. Ahead of the Curve and getting my BiS Legendaries are, for me personally, all I have left to do on him for this expansion that interests me. I have no interest in grinding AP, I already am above 75, I have no interest in seeing just how high I can Titan Forge gear. I play to see the content, I have seen the content, I am set for the next expansion. From MY PERSONAL view, my main is done and now I want to just screw around with alts. What reason do I have to rush to max level content? Just to grind out gear? I have my main, now I want to have fun and mess around. Maybe as I level I will find something I actually like and want to push to gear, but at least now I can get full rotations off on enemies while questing. Boss fights in dungeons are not 10-15 seconds, they last long enough I can get a real view of how I am doing, the leveling experience now is on equal ground with Legion so I can get feel most closely what my class is going to feel like at max level. I can practice and learn the rotations, even in full heirlooms, AS I PLAY and get a feel for the class I am leveling! The disconnect of getting through the old content then hitting new content is gone, its a smooth difficulty curve and pace now. You don't go from 1-2 shotting guys and clearing dungeons in 5 minutes to seeing full on encounters, its eased in now.

It also teaches the newer generation of players what to expect. Healers and Tanks in low level dungeons hardly ever had to do anything, hell, I saw so many people on healers pre-patch DPSing in dungeons and so many DPS pulling trash because there was no threat. Thats not happening any more, tanks HAVE to learn to tank and healers HAVE to heal. The roles are more solidly defined now and equivalent to what is expected at max level, giving a better idea of what the experience is. Its a fun challenge!

If you are turned off from actually having to play? Please, tell me why you play World of Warcraft. Do you not like dungeons? Do you not like Questing? What do you do on a day to day basis that is fun? Give an actual argument on why this is bad, why content feeling like content again is bad. You have clearly already done it so why do you care? Is your only argument that now, if you want to make an alt, it takes longer? Were the old expansions that horrible for you?

Because looking through your posts...

On the forum topic "Dumbest thing you did in Classic WoW?" you responded with...

Got into World of Warcraft.

as well as this gem found in "What have you never done in WoW?" where you responded with...

Enjoyed it.

Literally looking through your posts, found here (https://www.mmo-champion.com/search....rchid=54835345) if anyone wants to see them, literally all of your posts are calling people out for not proving their statements, saying WoW sucks and has never been fun to you, and saying that Melee are broken and you are a poor poor warlock that should be pitied. You have proven via your public post history to literally contribute NOTHING of value to any discussions on these forums and honestly I urge the moderators to review this fact. You back nothing up but call people out for not "providing facts" to their claims, you clearly hate WoW and have said so on multiple accounts so your credibility in that department is severely lacking even though you go to topics like the GW2 threads and basically say "WoW is far better, no other MMO will ever compare".

You are literally here to no discuss anything but instead stir the pot to stir the pot.

This whole system makes WoW feel like a game once again instead of feeling stale and boring as a Kodo turd. Its no longer "Hit 15 and spam dungeons to current content!" but instead gives value to the game as a whole. Arguments have been made on this thread and its obvious you have nothing to prove the contrary. Please though, I would love to see the effort put forth to actually see an argument from you instead of, as your history blatantly shows, you mindlessly posting non-constructive responses and attacking people. Personally, I feel this one sums your posting qualities up rather nicely.

Quoted from the thread "The Game Awards 2017" by you.

Wow, you were desperate to get your retarded comment in, huh? Apparently calling this shit out is "trolling" but an obnoxious twat like you can be as antagonistic as you want and get away scot-free.

Post constructively. -Infracted. Lucetia

So please, your move.

[Puri]

Cmon let's be serious. I don't think this buff takes the leveling process back to Vanilla or TBC status. You still have heirlooms for alts.

I know it's kinda tedious to level, after you have done it 15+ times or more, but let's not blow this out of proportion.

And? Where did I ever say I propose taking back the leveling process back to vanilla or TBC status? It took about 20-30h fully heirloomed without any further buffs to get to max level before the patch, and now it takes longer. You said it takes 20% longer, but that's where I strongly disagree.
So whats better about leveling when - as you said yourself - it's tedious and now it takes even longer?

[Raelbo]

But hey, anything to sell more boosts eh?

FFS stop it. Just stop it. You think you're being smart, but all you're doing is demonstrating a lack of critical thought.

If you're someone who enjoys levelling new characters then this change is for the better. If you're someone who doesn't enjoy levelling characters then while this change will likely make things even worse, the fact is that levelling was never going to be enjoyable anyway.

So, no, it's not about pushing people to buy level boosts. It's about optimising the game experience for those who enjoy that part of the game. And while I can accept that this will likely result in more people feeling pushed to buying level boosts, that remains a convenient side effect for Blizzard rather than their primary motivation.

For what it's worth, I personally think that the cost of the level boost is rather steep, made that way IMO to encourage people to try going through the levelling process. I am fine with them focussing on making the levelling process fun for people who like levelling, but they do need to cater for those who, after 13 years, have zero interest in going through the process again, and give us a less punishing alternative to just skip the process altogether. They kinda had the right idea by giving us some free character boosts with the new expansion, but it's not really enough.

Buying a level boost for cash is fine, but the price needs to be appropriate. $60 is way too steep. $20 would be a lot more reasonable.
They could also offer various options in game:
Buy one for gold (eg 500K-1M gold). Tokens provide a mechanism for this via the blizzard balance, but because the level boost is so expensive, it makes the gold cost prohibitive.
Sell them on the BMAH
Attach them to acheivements: Eg level up 5 characters to level cap, get one free. Or complete 1000 level cap dungeons. Or win 500 bgs. Such a reward structure would work well because it allows someone who has invested a ton of time playing a main toon to convert that effort into getting a new level capped toon to try out a different experience.
etc.

But yeah, smugly proclaiming that all they're trying to do is make more cash from level boosts is just pure laziness on your part.

[Byucknah The Red]

Way to show everyone how little you have in life that you spend your time stalking other people's posting history, creep.

And with that, my point has been proven. You contribute literally nothing to any topic you post in.

[rda]

If you're someone who enjoys levelling new characters then this change is for the better.

No. I enjoy leveling new characters and I don't like this change. It is the equivalent of me getting a permanent 2-3x debuff on my DPS with all other things staying the same. It isn't fun in the least.

[ChrisKoe]

And with that, my point has been proven. You contribute literally nothing to any topic you post in.

And yet you feed him.

[Raelbo]

Okay, I get that there is a group of people, that really hates leveling, but has to do it, since its not optional. It makes perfect sense for them to define their best levling experience as "as short as possible". If these people had a "ding to 100!" button, they would press it immediatly.
There is also a group that likes to level and wants it to be actual gameplay instead of some weird compromise, where everyone loses (leveling haters still have to do it, but leveling fans cant enjoy the faceroll). Those people would not press this button and they like these changes.

Is there a third group, that actually likes leveling, would not press the "ding to 100!" button, but also wants it to be faceroll? Because if thats not the case, the solution to this problem seems pretty obvious. And its not to return to the terrible "misery for everyone!" compromise we had for the last 5 years.

This post deserves an upvote.

[Byucknah The Red]

And yet you feed him.

If anything it creates more evidence to support my report

[Raelbo]

No. I enjoy leveling new characters and I don't like this change. It is the equivalent of me getting a permanent 2-3x debuff on my DPS with all other things staying the same. It isn't fun in the least.

Then I have to ask, what exactly is it about levelling that you do enjoy? It sounds to me like you're one of a tiny minority of players who fits into the third group mentioned by @owbu

[FelPlague]

We did. When it was actually relevant. It's not anymore and it needs to stay that way.

except when you are leveling, it is relevent. because you ARE that level... so umm idk what to tell ya

- - - Updated - - -

Please do. Maybe at some point the dullards that run this place will finally permanently ban my account like I've been asking so I can be done with this cesspool of idiocy and ignorance.

Just spam one of them to "kill sthemselves" if you "really want to get banned"

[bmjclark]

Tbh, WoW may have retained more subs through WoD and MoP if leveling was like this because new players would actually somewhat enjoy playing from 1-90/100/110 instead of just 2 shotting everything like they were. There's nothing fun about 2 shotting mobs for 12-20 hours until you hit max level.

[Raelbo]

The content is no longer relevant. Pure and simple.

False. For some people the content is no longer relevant. For others it is.

[rda]

Then I have to ask, what exactly is it about levelling that you do enjoy? It sounds to me like you're one of a tiny minority of players who fits into the third group mentioned by @obwu

The classification in the post by obwu is lacking like twenty five more groups.

I enjoy completing things and I am soloing everything I can. Before the change this meant that I was having little resistance in the world, but I could get whatever challenge I wanted from soloing group elites and soloing instances and raids (not for XP, for gear / achievements / reps / everything else). After the change the world didn't get more challenging, it got slower, and instances I can no longer solo thanks to the scaling. It's a clear loss to me. I just don't want to play.

Before you say "this is a niche", consider many other players coming from different angles and also not being fans of the changes. It looks like there are tons of different ways to level here and by far not all of them are improved by the changes, in many cases the changes are unwanted.

[Deleted]

And? Where did I ever say I propose taking back the leveling process back to vanilla or TBC status? It took about 20-30h fully heirloomed without any further buffs to get to max level before the patch, and now it takes longer. You said it takes 20% longer, but that's where I strongly disagree.
So whats better about leveling when - as you said yourself - it's tedious and now it takes even longer?

First, i said it's tedious after you have done it 15+ times. Second, not me or you or anyoneelse around here can tell you the exact %. It canbe 21, 34, 12, 7 whatever, if you want to discuss on random number, we have nothing to say each other.

Personally, i don't mind it takes longer. But that's my PERSONAL opinion. In fact, i welcome this change only thanks to the zone scaling. When new allied races will be out, i will finally enjoy questing around without my quest log become grey after 5 quest and 1 dungeon.

But again, as every change in WoW (and real world) history, you have people happy with it and people not.

[Byucknah The Red]

Why do you even level chars, if you already have 58 and don't like leveling?
I already have 16 lv110 chars and i prepared some chars for 7.3.5, just to experience the leveling process again. And I love it! It's not harder and it doesn't take more time, it's just different (better)

While I do not have as many 110's, I am absolutely in the same boat XD

I LOVE WoW's content, and it has been so long since I have been able to fully finish out zones without out leveling them. Also now being able to do a full rotation or three on enemies feels good, it helps cement rotations for when reaching cap.

Seeing boss mechanics again was also very cool, you really forget just how much effort Blizzard puts into their content when everything is blown through so quickly!

As an aside, and not related to your comment, Its not like I am blind to the people who only care about max level content though... I get that if your friends play the game, and you are new, you probably want to get to max level ASAP to play with them and all. I can also understand situations where maybe a healer or important role in your guild left for whatever reason and now a competent replacement is needed, or heck maybe you just want to do something different. I still argue this is better off though because now you get to play your class fully and get an idea as you level what you will be in store for at max level. It gives you more time to familiarize your keybindings, how spells interact with other spells, ect.

I know there are tons of people who can hit the ground running at max level who do not need that, but not everyone is like that. As someone who has played since near the start of Vanilla, Jan of 05 to be exact, I remember in Wrath when "Wrath Babies" became a thing. It made the experience for everyone who was very attuned to the game and their characters that much worse. Honestly, it has only gotten worse as time has gone on however. The number of players who are putting out sub par numbers, are unable to be mobile and do their rotations, ect really shows a general lack of understanding for their class and shows just how not honed their skills are.

While it may be punishing for players who just want a fast alt I honestly think this is better for the game overall and the next generation, the BfA babies, to have a stronger grasp of the game then the new players who joined in the WoD and Legion generations especially.

There's nothing fun about it taking numerous hits to kill a single enemy either.

Whats fun about killing enemies in one hit only to reach a wall, IE the current content, where suddenly and abruptly enemies no longer die in one hit and the players who have never had to know a rotation now needs to suddenly know it. Its abrupt, jarring, and disconnecting.

[Toxuvox]

Please do. Maybe at some point the dullards that run this place will finally permanently ban my account like I've been asking so I can be done with this cesspool of idiocy and ignorance.

So, you lack the self control required to ban yourself from the site? Are you forced to log in and participate in the discussions you participate in? If you don't want to be here, then walk away. It really is that simple.

[FelPlague]

The content is no longer relevant. Pure and simple.

except for people leveing, it is.
are you saying that any content not max level is "irrelevent" you sound like ricegum

[Raelbo]

The classification in the post by obwu is lacking like twenty five more groups.

Nah. 3 groups is fine. Sure, every group will have a number of definable sub-groups but if you start trying to make too many categories, it becomes impractical for holding a discussion - especially on a forum like this.

I enjoy completing things and I am soloing everything I can. Before the change this meant that I was having little resistance in the world, but I could get whatever challenge I wanted from soloing group elites and soloing instances and raids (not for XP, for gear / achievements / reps / everything else). After the change the world didn't get more challenging, it got slower, and instances I can no longer solo thanks to the scaling. It's a clear loss to me. I just don't want to play.

Ok, I get it. You enjoy setting goals and ticking them off. I guess it makes sense then why this change wouldn't suit you. It also explains a lot of your somewhat strange stances on things discussed in many past threads.

Before you say "this is a niche", consider many other players coming from different angles and also not being fans of the changes. It looks like there are tons of different ways to level here and by far not all of them are improved by the changes, in many cases the changes are unwanted.

The thing is this though: WoW, as a game, is about the journey. I'm not saying you can't have fun by trying to tick off as many things as you can, but I will say that you lose out on a lot of the experience if that's going to be your only focus.

And certainly from what I have observed, your opinion of why these changes are bad is actually fundamentally different from most others who are taking issue. You may be on their side when it comes to whether or not you like the changes, but that doesn't mean you're like-minded. You're kinda unique that way.

[Blackcoffin]

For the supposed "new" players, of which there are virtually none. Which I don't care about and I know you all don't either, you just look for whatever lame excuse you can to justify defending an otherwise pointless and uninteresting change.

• Virtually no new players
• Players participating in this discussion doesn't care about new players.
• Players that do care, look for excuses
• The change is pointless and uninteresting

You keep making assertions without backing anything up. Do you want to specify your claims a bit?