Will Democrates shut down the gov't for interest of foreigners?

[Cthulhu 2020]

*Yawn*

Hardcore Democrats will blame Republicans. Hardcore Republicans will blame Democrats.

Everyone else will look at the facts, look who is in power, look at the compromise that Trump blew up, will look at Trump's twitter and place the blame where it belongs -- on the Republicans.

But, by all means, keep blaming Democrats while simultaneous gloating about how they have no power and lost all the elections in 2016. I'm sure that'll work out well for ya.

All that really needs to be said about the shut down to be honest. Reality is trembling, and the Republicans don't like it. If you gloat about your power takeover and wins, you don't get to whine about Democrats when something Republicans control goes completely haywire.

[Machismo]

LOL. You are starting to sound like a Donald Trump tweet

'Willing' is useless without the 'Able'.

When it comes individual liberty and state sovereignty, the two are often at odds with one another. So, at some point, a person must choose which is more important. The people in the middle often change their minds as to which is more important, and they are inconsistent. If you want a "for example" then it should be on specific issues. Sometimes liberals are hypocritical, and other times, conservatives are hypocritical. This is going to be on a case-by-case basis.

Some of those examples would be liberals and their support of state-level gun laws, whilst opposing state-level abortion laws. For conservatives, their hypocrisy usually comes in the form of morality laws that go against their stated support for individual liberty.

[Zan15]

They are illegal aliens .. it doesn't matter when you came or what happened .. blame your parents if you wish .. they are still here illegally and need to go. Yes you can deport people who are here illegally .. that's the point to a law and the law is clear here they dont belong and putting the needs of illegals over the needs of actual American Citizens is wrong.

You mean a education and job WE paid for? We should charge them for this in fact since most likely their parents didn't even pay taxes and soaked up many social programs they were not entitled to .. but that's another story for another day.

Umm, not to be rude but are you delusional?

How did they not pay for their education like everyone else unless they were homeless?

Their property taxes (even through rentals) paid the vast share of their education just like everyone else.

Many of them did pay income taxes, social security tax, Medicare tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc etc just like everyone else.


DACA recipients can participate in Social Security and Medicare, and lower income DACA recipients may claim a major tax credit. They are still ineligible, however, for most forms of welfare including food stamps and Medicaid. So what "soaking" of social programs did they participate in? The only ones they could even get are dependent on them contributing taxes to.

[cubby]

Would the democratic party of the u.s. shut down the gov't to cater to interest of illigal foreigners i.e. DACA recipents? I understand if it was for domestic policy such as healthcare or debt spending, but for interest of foreigners? How does that even remotely makes sense? How do other nations view this about politicians shutting down the gov't, for interest of foreigners?

Would democrats shut down the government in order to do the right thing? Yes, they would. If you honestly don't understand the issue, read up instead of posting drivel - it will make the world a better place.

If you have questions about DACA, just ask - we're here to help.

[Zan15]

I love the nativist in this country. At first we didn't want the Germans (Ben Franklin), then Irish and Italians (catholic) and Jews to some degree. Now these same people of course attacking another group since they are here and others are not.

Plus if you had any ancestor that immigrated here before the 1950's at least you should know how much easier it was to get here. The U.S. pretty much had an open door policy to immigrants. Most immigrants came here without any skill. The U.S. basically just needed bodies to fill up the massive land.

You anti-immigrants or I guess people who you think should come here with some type of high skill are ignorant to many of the reasons why you are here today. Being duped into thinking that immigrants are taking the jobs or lowering pay is silly. These jobs most non-skilled immigrants do are ones Americans would not touch with a 10 foot pole. Lowering wage? Okay, but again having your job shipped overseas for cheaper labor or automation killed your wage more than some immigrant. Plus these are the people who tend to fight against any wage raise.

Don't you love when people have to blame their problem on someone, moving from one group to the other when they should just look in the mirror.

21 trillion dollars in debt and massive wealth inequality/poor problem, Huge welfare problem......but its the 6-8 million out of 320 that are causing it. lol lol lol

[Delana]

They're still working and paying taxes, which is more than what can be said of the entire midwest, where nearly 30% of all people live of welfare stamps, and of which 70% of them are white. Should start deporting those first if you wanna go by who paid who first.

Are those white people American citizens?

Oh wait, they are.

At the end of the day, the people have laws. Those laws define what a citizen is. The DACA kids (most of whom are adults now) are not citizens. The desire of some in congress to subvert those laws to buy a voting block with other people's money is not laudable. It's disgusting.

[Bullettime]

Are those white people American citizens?

Oh wait, they are.

At the end of the day, the people have laws. Those laws define what a citizen is. The DACA kids (most of whom are adults now) are not citizens. The desire of some in congress to subvert those laws to buy a voting block with other people's money is not laudable. It's disgusting.

Except the majority of politicians on both sides of the aisle support the DACA because of it being humanitarian. The Republicans just can't be openly either for or against it which is creating the current problem and why they don't even have the votes to ram it through, even though they have the numbers.

[Elegiac]

Are those white people American citizens?

Oh wait, they are.

At the end of the day, the people have laws. Those laws define what a citizen is. The DACA kids (most of whom are adults now) are not citizens. The desire of some in congress to subvert those laws to buy a voting block with other people's money is not laudable. It's disgusting.

And the desire of people in both Congress and in general to deport people that are American in all but legal recognition for the sake of 'make America white again' is vastly more disgusting.

"Other people's money"; you mean the people that put the Democrats in Congress? Cause it sure as hell ain't Republicans paying those taxes.

[Bullettime]

And the desire of people in both Congress and in general to deport people that are American in all but legal recognition for the sake of 'make America white again' is vastly more disgusting.

"Other people's money"; you mean the people that put the Democrats in Congress? Cause it sure as hell ain't Republicans paying those taxes.

The best part is there's few congressmen even against the DACA, meaning it's really just backwoods idiots wanting blood and someone to blame. It's just not a hill they (the GOP) want to die on and the Dems called their bluff.

[unfilteredJW]

Are those white people American citizens?

Oh wait, they are.

At the end of the day, the people have laws. Those laws define what a citizen is. The DACA kids (most of whom are adults now) are not citizens. The desire of some in congress to subvert those laws to buy a voting block with other people's money is not laudable. It's disgusting.

Enjoyable to see this defended and wanting American citizens to remain that way is "disgusting". I can only imagine the frail ego needed to see DACA "kids" doing so well compared to you that you feel the need to remove them from the country.

Depos gonna depo.

[Zan15]

[QUOTE=Annamarine;48694879]

How did it slow down costs? Before obama care I could get health insurance for my family with decent deductibles for about $350 a month .. now WITH a subsidy its $650 for the same thing ... Costs have not been controlled.

In addition the US government spends (I'm sorry these are old figures so it will be worse now) $4,197 per person on healthcare when it only covers about 25% of people ... Canada for example spends $3,074 and covers every single legal resident.

First off the us govt does not spend 4200, everyone does. Govt and Private healthcare average is actually way higher then 4200 as well. Only thing you got right was the fact we pay way more then everyone else because we allow profit to be free range for healthcare where as no other country with single payer/national healthcare allows.


2nd i call shenanigans on your clear exaggerations on what you used to pay for insurance. If you were paying 350 it was part of an employer plan where they were paying another 800-900 a month.


lets take Arizona for example. Maricopa County for example, since you seem to talk about Both Arizona and this county in your post
Of course we don't know your income, feel free to let us know range, so we will assume average.


https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/

Median household income in Phoenix, AZ is $48,452.


Based on the information you provided, it looks like your household qualifies for a premium tax credit of
$1,114 per month


Plans start at 14.55
Ambetter From Health Net · Ambetter Essential Care 1 (2018)
Metal Level: BronzeBronzePlan Type: HMOHMOPlan ID: 91450AZ0080036
Estimated monthly premium
$14.55


now what is considered "decent"??
Lets take an average plan

Ambetter From Health Net · Ambetter Balanced Care 9 (2018)
Metal Level: SilverSilverPlan Type: HMOHMOPlan ID: 91450AZ0080034
Estimated monthly premium
$314.68

Deductible
$5,700
Family Total



i mean even a gold plan is cheaper then what you are talking about

Ambetter From Health Net · Ambetter Secure Care 4 (2018)
Metal Level: GoldGoldPlan Type: HMOHMOPlan ID: 91450AZ0080033
Estimated monthly premium
$614.99




So to get to your magical 650 number, you have to choose the MOST EXPENSIVE plan on the market place.

Interesting was your 350 old policy the most expensive policy the insurance company offered, somehow i doubt it.





Now if you were making better then 85k a year cost would be different
Ambetter From Health Net · Ambetter Secure Care 4 (2018)
Metal Level: GoldGoldPlan Type: HMOHMOPlan ID: 91450AZ0080033
Estimated monthly premium
$1,729.03


1729 for the most expensive plan. this is about 24% of your monthly income at 85k a year. The national average for family plans both on exchange and off exchange is about 16-22% of income. This even includes private plans through your employer.

1563 is the national average for employer based family plans. As expected its more expensive when you don't buy in bulk, lol.
https://www.kff.org/health-costs/rep...nefits-survey/



So 350? i would love to see the policy you used to have for 350, 4200 a year. The national average even in 1999 was higher. So what major limitations did this 350 dollar policy even have? Are you including the cost your employer paid or was this a plan paid for by you on the individual market.
For 350 that policy had what a 250k lifetime max? it must have been a mess

[melodramocracy]

Leave it to republicans, who not only hold majority, but been absolutely responsible for the past 3 gov't shutdowns, to whine and bitch about this.

Republicans want increased military spending along with a tax cut (there's that mind blowing right wing math again), and now expect the US citizen to foot the bill for a wall you claimed was going to be paid for by another country.

Back up your campaign promises, or shut the fuck up about it already, and learn how compromise actually works.

[ati87]

Are those white people American citizens?

Oh wait, they are.

At the end of the day, the people have laws. Those laws define what a citizen is. The DACA kids (most of whom are adults now) are not citizens. The desire of some in congress to subvert those laws to buy a voting block with other people's money is not laudable. It's disgusting.

So your problem is that the other side might win votes over this?

You know what's more disgusting. Your lack of morality

[Bullettime]

I'm just really wondering who caves first in this game of chicken, how they cave, and which congressmen take the dive for it to happen.

The Dems have absolutely no reason to support this compromise. They gain nothing and lose everything so they're not going to compromise at all. They'll just continue to call the bluff.

The Republicans on the other hand are stonewalling themselves because they can't be for or against the DACA or border wall. But if they don't cave, they'll also get blamed for the government shutdown given they have the raw numbers to pass whatever they want.

[ati87]

I'm just really wondering who caves first in this game of chicken, how they cave, and which congressmen take the dive for it to happen.

The Dems have absolutely no reason to support this compromise. They gain nothing and lose everything so they're not going to compromise at all. They'll just continue to call the bluff.

The Republicans on the other hand are stonewalling themselves because they can't be for or against the DACA or border wall. But if they don't cave, they'll also get blamed for the government shutdown given they have the raw numbers to pass whatever they want.

See it this way.

Republicans control both chambers of congress......the idea that you need the vote from the other side because you can't control sheep from your own party is kind of pathetic.

[Shadowferal]

It's telling that the OP ran away from his/her own thread.

[Poopymonster]

*Yawn*

Hardcore Democrats will blame Republicans. Hardcore Republicans will blame Democrats.

Everyone else will look at the facts, look who is in power, look at the compromise that Trump blew up, will look at Trump's twitter and place the blame where it belongs -- on the Republicans.

But, by all means, keep blaming Democrats while simultaneous gloating about how they have no power and lost all the elections in 2016. I'm sure that'll work out well for ya.

Of course the Republicans, who have a majority in both houses AND (theoretically) control the white house, will blame the Democrats.

It's like when they called Obama a weak president and a overreaching tyrant, an atheist muslim, fascist communist socialist.

Oh shit, I just realized this, they're trying trickle down..."If we just had a few more seats in the Senate, like 50 or so. And more in the House, and maybe just 4 more seats on the Supreme Court, then we'd have enough and let some power trickle down to the peasants, I mean, common man."

[Dontrike]

How is it Dem's fault when Rep's control everything? That's like blaming McDonald's for you getting fat when you go there every day or cigarettes companies when you get cancer for puffing three cartons a weeks.

[Bullettime]

How is it Dem's fault when Rep's control everything? That's like blaming McDonald's for you getting fat when you go there every day or cigarettes companies when you get cancer for puffing three cartons a weeks.

They're upset that the Dems, for once, are taking a page out of their own playbook and playing hardball by calling their bluff.

It's basically like when they admitted in the past that bipartisanship is only when Dems come across the aisle to their side.

[Jeezy911]

Would democrats shut down the government in order to Pander to new future voters? Yes, they would.

Fixed for you