Legion is over... What to kill, what to keep?

[ckb1978]

keep : world quests / pvp world quests /pet battles /

kill : an alliance leader without killing 1-2 horde leaders in the process

[svetlio]

Kill:m+ dungeons( no 5 man dungeon that is 1 year old shoud be more rewarding then brand new raid on heroic),PVP world quest(people that dont have any pvp done during d xpack havin max prestige livel by doin w'q are you kidin me????),legendary system(curent legendaries are just a bit beter epicks anyway),Ahead of the curve and lfr shoud not give any achives.
keep:raids,Patch tempo,normal world quests.
ADD:1 or 2 zones like wintergrasp

[glowpipe]

Keep: Worldquests, but make them more worthwile to keep doing for high geared players. Keep m+ But make end of instance chest worth farming. Clearing a 17 key or a 27 key reward the same sad low ilvl gear. Maybe go the destiny route. Make the loot scale with your ilvl. If you are 960. You get items ranging from 950 to 965. Random what you get

Keep warforging/titanforging. But cap it at 15 ilvl and back to upgrade system. Farm stuff, upgrade shit. Instead of rng lottery.

Kill: Legendaries. Set items. Rng rogue aoe. ARcano Trinket. Curve achievement. m+ score. Visible ilvl

[Lord Pebbleton]

Keep mission tables for me. Tons of money to be had.
Kill tier sets, which I believe they will already do in BfA. Nothing personal against them, I just can never get 4 freaking pieces until the end of the patch, even if I raid it every week. So tired.

[ydraw]

Kill:m+ dungeons( no 5 man dungeon that is 1 year old shoud be more rewarding then brand new raid on heroic)

Why not?

The M+ dungeons that reward gear on par with heroic raids are more challenging than heroic raids.

If you want a challenging raid, there's Mythic raids, which reward better gear than M+ does.

[Polarthief]

I can't really limit myself to 1 thing each, so I'll try 3.

Keep: World Quests, Emissaries, and Paragon Caches
Much better than dailies, though I do wish the reward system was revamped a bit. This skips the whole "pick up/turn in" part of quests, which makes them much faster and lets you plan a quicker route to take. Paragons also offer extra rewards for continuously helping reps past exalted instead of just terminating all contact with them once exalted like previous expansions.

Keep: Mythic+
Holy shit. Dungeons have never been so included throughout an entire expansion since LK, and it's doing even better than BC/LK times. While I would like to see rewards revamped a bit (especially in regards to repeated runs or maybe letting you pick a slot or specific dungeon for your next cache to be instead of pure random), Mythic+ was an amazing feature to add to Legion, and I'm glad it's already planned to stay.

Keep: Some form of daily login rewards
I love the amount of money I've gotten from the Garrison and Order Hall, and I would like to see some form of daily rewards stay going into BfA (and AFAIK, that's the current plan, minus the Order Hall). It's just a neat feeling to know "ooh that timer's up, now I can get some neat shit".


Kill: Current Legendary System
I'd be fine with a revamped one, but Legion's system has been downright terrible. The addition in 7.3.5 is way too late, and honestly, adding it in at 7.0/7.1 would have made the system a lot more tolerable. Either make everything non-performance boosting utility stuff or let us work towards/pick specific ones to get next.

Kill: RNG upon RNG upon RNG
Titanforging, NLC, Legendaries (oh wait, already said to kill that), the list goes on and on with Diablo-esque levels of RNG in this expansion and it's really getting tiring. Now we also have the barely-dropped weapon mogs to add to the vanity list, the Pantheon trinkets, or even worse, Aman'Thul's Vision. It's just getting out of hand with everything. That said, some RNG is fine and can create excitement, but when you have to Titanforge a BiS Relic to also roll BiS on the NLC, it just gets absurd. Enough of this shit.

Kill: Order Hall
While I love the Order Hall, I hate the extensive amount of work you need to put into it, with equipment, gear, and a whole slew of optimization efforts to the point where I made a fairly extensive spreadsheet for every class to keep track for my alts (in my sig if you're at all curious). Such a simple system SHOULD NOT need that much theorycrafting to optimize or headache to keep track of. Oh and enough of this "leading an army/class" bullshit. Players want to go back to being an adventurer. If they wanted to lead an army, they'd go back to WC3 or SC. You don't lead an army in an MMO, you ARE the one-man army.

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Kill:m+ dungeons( no 5 man dungeon that is 1 year old shoud be more rewarding then brand new raid on heroic)

It's not though. You get i940 from a +15, which is 5 under Heroic Raiding. 30m for a M+ gets me an 80% chance at loot (gets my group 4 pieces) while ~2h gets me a full clear of Heroic, which is about 44 pieces of loot for a ~20 player raid. 4x the time for 11x the loot. The only advantage M+ has is the cache at the end which is equivalent to ONE piece of Mythic raiding gear, but you have no clue what it could be with a list so massively huge.

Oh and don't forget an M15 is arguably more difficult than a heroic raid.

[svetlio]

Why not?

The M+ dungeons that reward gear on par with heroic raids are more challenging than heroic raids.

If you want a challenging raid, there's Mythic raids, which reward better gear than M+ does.

Soo you think that bosses that have 1 or max 2 abilities and you have killed 100+ times are more challenging then new hc bosses whit 2-3 phases whit 2-3 diferent abilities in each phase that you face for first time, and you need to have 12+peple not fucking up?
And btw high M+ dungeons are nothing more then simple DPS and HPS check on fights that you have many many time before and clearing retared waves of trash, as d only diference in +10 and +20 is heal and damage its not like you got added new mehanic to care for at +15 or any uper its d same shitt just bigger numnbers

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It's not though. You get i940 from a +15, which is 5 under Heroic Raiding. 30m for a M+ gets me an 80% chance at loot (gets my group 4 pieces) while ~2h gets me a full clear of Heroic, which is about 44 pieces of loot for a ~20 player raid. 4x the time for 11x the loot. The only advantage M+ has is the cache at the end which is equivalent to ONE piece of Mythic raiding gear, but you have no clue what it could be with a list so massively huge.

Oh and don't forget an M15 is arguably more difficult than a heroic raid.

and yet you can do one +15 a weak and get mythic raid gear whiout even doin any mythic raiding yes ?
940item livel if you dont get war or titanforging right ?else it can go up right ?

[Alex86el]

Keep: World Quests, Emissaries, and Paragon Caches
[B]Keep: Mythic+
Keep: Some form of daily login rewards
Kill: Current Legendary System
Kill: RNG upon RNG upon RNG

Kill: Order Hall

I say,

Kill:

Emissaries etc, daily login, and all kinds of daily/weekly related advencement system.
i dont want blizzard to tell me when or if i have to play.

for example, i have been trying to reach exalted with a pandaria faction, for months now.
if there wasnt dailies, and you could just farm the shit out of it, i'd be exalted in a day. but no.
or the pathfinder... same shit. it took me forever, only because of daily/weekly/whatever limitations.

i dont, and i cant login every day.
i wanna login and play whenever i want.
not routinely like a job, to do X dailies, and X emmisarries, and X amount of mandatory mythics, like a trained dog.

and the worst part about it is that if you dont follow this daily/weekly/whatever-y routine that Blizzard forces you to,
it is much harder to catch up with your more advanced friends.

(And yes, obviously kill RNG as much as it is possible. we can all agree on that)

[Sinte]

Soo you think that bosses that have 1 or max 2 abilities and you have killed 100+ times are more challenging then new hc bosses whit 2-3 phases whit 2-3 diferent abilities in each phase that you face for first time, and you need to have 12+peple not fucking up?
And btw high M+ dungeons are nothing more then simple DPS and HPS check on fights that you have many many time before and clearing retared waves of trash, as d only diference in +10 and +20 is heal and damage its not like you got added new mehanic to care for at +15 or any uper its d same shitt just bigger numnbers

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and yet you can do one +15 a weak and get mythic raid gear whiout even doin any mythic raiding yes ?
940item livel if you dont get war or titanforging right ?else it can go up right ?

Lol you do realize that the whole point of affixes is to generate new mechanics, right? This was their first attempt at m+, and it was met with HUGE success, bringing more people into pve than raiding ever did after WotLK. They just need to expand on the system, have new and RANDOM affixes, as well as maybe make either Tyrannical or a certain key threshold introduce a new mechanic to every boss, maybe half way through the expansion,just to keep things more fresh.

As it stands right now, I absolutely love doing high mythic keys with my guildies, and the fact that you can tell a good from a poor player on anything of 20 and above is pretty great. Hell, the one reason I say M+ is more challenging than heroic raids, is because you can carry multiple people through heroic raids. One poor person in a 20 can wipe your group. Is it doable with 4? Sure it is, especially depending on the dungeon. But it definitely is a lot more taxing on everyone than a heroic raid will ever be. (I mean come on, are you going to tell me that heroic coven is harder than a +20? Go compare on how many 20's happen in a week on your realm compared to coven kills. You'll be surprised. And coven is considered one of the 3 'roadblocks'. Yes there are like 7 mechanics that you need to pay attention to, but they can all be boggled down to "stand in X" or "dps y" by your raid leader and all you need is the ability to listen and move your character.

[Planetdune]

This week's patch effectively concludes Legion which, for me, was a pretty solid expansion. It had some really good bits, and some really disappointing bits, but it was much closer to Wrath and Mists than it was Cataclysm and Warlords.

But here's the question:

If there was one thing you wanted to keep for Battle for Azeroth, and one thing you wanted to kill, which would they be?

For me, it'd be:

Keep: World Quests.

I think these reinvigorated the world, and provided some steady content for more casual players with an aspect of progression throughout. It needs tweaked and developed, but I think it's really strong.

Kill: Mission Tables.

Honestly, it needs to go. It's had its time, it adds nothing of value to the game whatsoever (save as a poor gating mechanism), and is in fact an annoying design crutch that needs to be rubbed out. You think we want it, but we don't.

Over to you!

What ? Why get rid of mission tables?? I still em bummed out I missed out on the Garisson missions properly... (I should have been rich now :'( ) .. I love content that is nothing more than clicking a button and check back the next day! Easy stuff is good.

[Pua]

What ? Why get rid of mission tables?? I still em bummed out I missed out on the Garisson missions properly... (I should have been rich now :'( ) .. I love content that is nothing more than clicking a button and check back the next day! Easy stuff is good.

I'm going to assume sarcasm.

If not, I've answered the question several times in the thread already. Mission tables are objectively bad design and, therefore, have earned their place on the chopping block.

[svetlio]

Lol you do realize that the whole point of affixes is to generate new mechanics, right? This was their first attempt at m+, and it was met with HUGE success, bringing more people into pve than raiding ever did after WotLK. They just need to expand on the system, have new and RANDOM affixes, as well as maybe make either Tyrannical or a certain key threshold introduce a new mechanic to every boss, maybe half way through the expansion,just to keep things more fresh.

As it stands right now, I absolutely love doing high mythic keys with my guildies, and the fact that you can tell a good from a poor player on anything of 20 and above is pretty great. Hell, the one reason I say M+ is more challenging than heroic raids, is because you can carry multiple people through heroic raids. One poor person in a 20 can wipe your group. Is it doable with 4? Sure it is, especially depending on the dungeon. But it definitely is a lot more taxing on everyone than a heroic raid will ever be. (I mean come on, are you going to tell me that heroic coven is harder than a +20? Go compare on how many 20's happen in a week on your realm compared to coven kills. You'll be surprised. And coven is considered one of the 3 'roadblocks'. Yes there are like 7 mechanics that you need to pay attention to, but they can all be boggled down to "stand in X" or "dps y" by your raid leader and all you need is the ability to listen and move your character.

First: Sure mate if they manage to keep things interesting whit adding new mechanicks rather then simly up hp and dmg(3 affixes on 10 3 affixes on 15 3 affixex on 20 curently, and on this point they have been out like 1+ year)then m+ can be good whiout weakly chest it will be even better.
When you say WotLK back then new dungeons had a meaning both crusede and icc ones.Now as you say why woud someone care to do cathedral or seat +15
when they can do eye cos maw+15?
Second:There is poor players in+20 haw d fuck they get m+ score and 970+ il to even be invaited in a +20 run????
Last:How many 20+ hapend in a weak?Who cares?.Why shoud anyone go beyond 15 when its all caped there ????

[Ielenia]

No because you are active for WQs. You are out in the world, playing the actual game, pressing buttons, killing mobs and looting corpses. That is what WoW is about and aslong as you do that, it is just fine. The mission table on the other hand requires very little activity for you and requires you not to really do any of the core game mechanics to make use of it. You just press some buttons in a menu and then that is it.

Except... you have to do "core game mechanics" to unlock certain mission types. You have to be "out in the world, playing the actual game" to unlock more champions. Complaining about the mission table after its content became trivial is... well, dumb, in my opinion. That'd be like complaining about Legion's normal dungeons after I'm already fully decked in titanforged mythic Antorus gear.

[Planetdune]

I'm going to assume sarcasm.

If not, I've answered the question several times in the thread already. Mission tables are objectively bad design and, therefore, have earned their place on the chopping block.

No it is not sarcastic... not sure why anyone would argue getting some free stuff every day (even if it doesn't amount to much like the mission table) is bad.... There is enough grinding reputation or some currency or whatever out there if you like that sort of stuff... nothing wrong with having a less time consuming thing as well...

[Varanus]

Not sure there's anything Legion specific that I'd want them to keep, outside of the world scaling. There's quite a few things I'd want them to bring back. But if I had to pick one thing to kill, I'd like them to get rid of world quests and bring back dailies. I really don't like world quests at all. I don't like how they're just all over the place and I was just hopping all around the zone doing random things that had nothing to do with each other. I want my IoT, Molten front, Argent style dailies back.

[Fabinas]

Kill (or work related, fire) : The current Dev team and the RNG reward layers they have introduced.
Keep: I can think nothing of exciting in Legion. I am that much disappointed.

[Aphrel]

Keep: Mythic dungeons
Kill: Legendarys

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Keep: Mythic +
Kill: itemlevel rolls (Warforging, Titanforging), Legendary system, Artifact Power (and anything remotely similar to it that "forces" people to grind for hours and hours during early stages of the game- which leads to people burning out.

[Pua]

No it is not sarcastic... not sure why anyone would argue getting some free stuff every day (even if it doesn't amount to much like the mission table) is bad.... There is enough grinding reputation or some currency or whatever out there if you like that sort of stuff... nothing wrong with having a less time consuming thing as well...

If it's not sarcastic, please refer to my other posts explaining why you're describing reasons for the mission table to be cut.

I don't like how they're just all over the place and I was just hopping all around the zone doing random things that had nothing to do with each other. I want my IoT, Molten front, Argent style dailies back.

I actually think this point is quite compelling.

The quests rarely, as you say, have anything to do with each other beyond mere geography - and that's a shame. A development for world quests might be something to fix this weird randomness.

[Deleted]

KILL:

PvP System
Class Design
Titanforging and excessive RNG


The new leveling adjustments in 7.3.5 are alright I guess but it´s super boring when you have rarely something to look forward to except for every 15 levels and even then some talent rows are just braindead boring. The unprecedented pruning process hurt the leveling process to a fatal degree and many abilities are baked into the PvP Talent system which is a mistake.

Also, Legion is known among many for having "a lot of stuff to do". But most of it is near-pointless. You could do these things in previous expansions too, including (yes) WoD. Legion has gone full overboard with the chore philosophy. In-game timers also make their gating approach more blatant than it has ever been. The RNG being baked into EVERY SINGLE ORIFICE of the game was something I never would have believed back in 2004. Thats gaming nowadays, I guess.


Also, the overall theme looked way too similar to Tanaan Jungle. The patch content was far from diverse in terms of landscapes and creativity. Yeah, people say that this is the planet of the Legion. So what? It is evident that these patches came so frequently at the cost of quality. They could have made Argus a really memorable experience, but it just followed suit to what we are used to... And thats just about the outdoor zones... Tomb of Sargeras and the first half of Antorus are also almost exactly Hellfire Citadel.


I will also say that although the raids were for the most part above average, the lack of memorable quotes and quality voice acting (with the sole exception of that guy during 7.3 questline and Helya) ever since WoD makes me doubt in that aspect ever coming back in full force. Such a shame. Some bosses just repeat the same lines throughout 8 minutes, like the Shivarra with their "I wanna see you burn". So, whereas the immersion is gone in part because the game is old, Blizzard themselves seem to have given up on some aspects of their game and just doing the absolute necessary... They used to be renowned for the effort they put into polishing details, but Legion is the expansion with the most clipping terrain, lack of detailed textures and interior surprises. Btw, MoP was the best in that regard. Most people just cba to pay attention to that thing though, so I understand why they reduced their team numbers. Those of us who have the eye for "less visible" elements of the game realize that Legion is far from having the most content ever of all expansions.

Legion completely did away with the finesse Blizzard was known for.

All in all, a lot to be dissatisfied with as you see. But, please KEEP:


decent cinematics
Suramar design/layout/idea