Why do people hate economic refugees ?

[Grokresh]

I don't think anyone has a problem with refugees.

But you aren't talking about refugees, you're talking about economic migrants, big difference there. Migrants come to stay, Refugees stay until they are no longer persecuted in there homeland, then return.

The issue with migrants is in the size of the wave and the inability to assimilate to the cultures of the countries to which they migrate.

I have problem with refugees, we already have our own homeless, if there are spare homes give them to those people first please.

[Mystrome]

Are you in my country united kingdom? We have geniune reasons to have issues with immigration as pointed out, not enough hospital spots, school spots, housing, wide poverty, sucides from benefit cuts due to funding we are in a peroid of austerity and struggling people aren't seeing payrises and jobs are lacking people are defiantly struggling and we don't need more people.

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This 100% once we have enough school spots, hospital spots, homeless not on the streets, funding for our vulnerable people, houses and jobs then maybe we can take more people in in UK.

No but close, the Netherlands.

We have our share of problems too. We take in about 5% of all refugees in the EU (~200.000 of the 1.000.000 total refugees), and consider the size of our country. Perhaps if you compare it to our total population (18.000.000) it doesn't seem like that much, but if you then consider we're all condensed on a piece of land roughly 200 by 350 km you can see how that's a problem: Our 5th largest city is Eindhoven with 217.000 people. We've taken in another Eindhoven.

[Deleted]

I have problem with refugees, we already have our own homeless, if there are spare homes give them to those people first please.

If you just take someone off the street and throw them in a house with a mortgage they'll be back on the street within a month, same with social housing.

Contrary to popular belief, folks aren't homeless just because there "aren't enough homes", they're homeless for a multitude of other reasons, the vast majority of which won't simply be solved by throwing them some new house keys and telling them to get on with it.

[Slant]

Okay lets change tack:

A, That a problem is unsolvable does not make ignoring it a good idea -
B, it's not unsolvable - Individuals have rights, cultures do not - If a culture isn't compatible, ending the culture is not a breach of human right's because cultures do not have rights.

I agree. Ignoring it is never a good idea. But "ending the culture"? Seriously? Explain how you'd like to accomplish that, because as far as I'm aware, that never worked in human history on purpose.

[Grokresh]

If you just take someone off the street and throw them in a house with a mortgage they'll be back on the street within a month, same with social housing.

Contrary to popular belief, folks aren't homeless just because there "aren't enough homes", they're homeless for a multitude of other reasons, the vast majority of which won't simply be solved by throwing them some new house keys and telling them to get on with it.

Then why does throwing a refugee with a house work? Do they pay a mortgage?

[Deleted]

Then why does throwing a refugee with a house work? Do they pay a mortgage?

Sometimes, it depends on what skills the refugee has I suppose.

The council that offers to take the refugees into there borough is given a government stipend, I believe less than £10,000 a year, for them to care for the refugee until such a time that they can return home.

Now with that stated, i'd like to point that I agree that we have a homeless problem in the UK, but simply stating that we can't take in any refugees because "we need to give the spare homes to the homeless" doesn't do anything other than try to paint the person defending the refugees as hating the homeless.

[Deleted]

Look, we can maybe go for the best option here: just let all the people that are in favour of economical immigration pay the bills for the refugees.

That's 100% fair and we are all happy then, right?

[Knolan]

people hate competition - its that simple

in 99,9 % of cases econmical refugees have milion times more dedication and will to work compared to lazy people born in very develped countries.

and thats why they hate immigrants. because immigrants work 10 times harder because they know how hard life can be - and in most cases lazy people from developed countries dont know real hardships of life

and no - not being able to buy newest model of iphone is not a life problem - while for many people in eveloped countries it is a real drama and reason for depression.

the more developed society the weaker each next generation is - its proven by history many many times.

[Citation Needed] and "it is not a problem" because you are not affected by it.

[Ghostpanther]

Look, we can maybe go for the best option here: just let all the people that are in favour of economical immigration pay the bills for the refugees.

That's 100% fair and we are all happy then, right?

Lol. It would be a very effective way to reduce immigration into a country.

[McFuu]

A mixture of racism and believing right wing nonsense that immigration causes unemployment.

It does cause unemployment, in the country the migrant left from. Not that it's what people are arguing about unemployment, but it does technically cause unemployment.

[Deleted]

Lol. It would be a very effective way to reduce immigration into a country.

Watch people change their stance instantly.

[Maybach]

No, there is no C. I'm going to just take a stand against this now.

Not all opinions are on equal footing. Just because you disagree with a fact, doesn't mean your opinion is just as valid as that fact.

The empirical research is clear in relation to immigration, in the context of the US. It doesn't matter how hard you kick, how loud you yell, or how much you cry - you can't just disagree with facts.

You can take as many stands as you like, lumping everyone together into your two categories is breathtakingly arrogant as well as factually incorrect

Everyone has an opinion and to state that everyones opinion falls into two categories of your making is risible to say the least

Take your stand, stamp your feet, my opinion differs from yours and I am certainly not in either of the two categories you made up

And who was talking about the US?

I was talking about immigration generally

Fortunately the world is not entirely composed of the USA

Enjoy your foot stamping and have a nice day

[Cthulhu 2020]

Because people think that the economy of their country is a pie that never changes size, and more people means they get less a piece of that pie. They don't realize the size of their economy adjusts with the population. There's also a host of other factors that makes them not understand how the economy works, makes them believe that immigrants are hurting their wages. They get paid shit, and since these people who are terrified of immigrants and refugees are so incredibly pro business, they will never blame businesses for their shit wages. They will look for other scapegoats instead of acknowledging the real problem.

[Grokresh]

Sometimes, it depends on what skills the refugee has I suppose.

The council that offers to take the refugees into there borough is given a government stipend, I believe less than £10,000 a year, for them to care for the refugee until such a time that they can return home.

Now with that stated, i'd like to point that I agree that we have a homeless problem in the UK, but simply stating that we can't take in any refugees because "we need to give the spare homes to the homeless" doesn't do anything other than try to paint the person defending the refugees as hating the homeless.

A waste of ten thousand government funds a year. If the refugees are given a house without a mortgage or relevant skills they are doing more for refugees then our own.

[Grokresh]

Look, we can maybe go for the best option here: just let all the people that are in favour of economical immigration pay the bills for the refugees.

That's 100% fair and we are all happy then, right?

100% agree on this, I'd rather literally any refugees funding went to schools, hospital, homeless aid, house building till everyone in the UK has at least the basics needed for a good life I don't support our resources being spent on other countries people.

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I believe the excuse for that is "something something bootstraps."

In other words: That 10,000 isn't going to the homeless regardless, because they expect the homeless to get back on their feet without help. Saying "We should" doesn't mean we will, and I can guarantee you we won't.

(See: The conservative stance on welfare, and other 'entitlement programs' designed specifically for this purpose.)

Well yes but if labour get in hopefully in the next election they may, there are still so many things that money would be better spent on for our own people. Just because the Tories are a funding problem doesn't mean foreigners don't make it worse.

[Thrallinor]

They just hate small "economic refugees" - If you are a company or a "Star" they won't hate you really

[Deleted]

They just hate small "economic refugees" - If you are a company or a "Star" they won't hate you really

Socialist/left wing parties also love refugees as potential future voters.

[Machismo]

Look, we can maybe go for the best option here: just let all the people that are in favour of economical immigration pay the bills for the refugees.

That's 100% fair and we are all happy then, right?

That sounds like a great plan, so long as the people also get to decide whether they support a foreign war, corporate welfare, private welfare, and border security costs. I'm all for it.

[Elegiac]

Socialist/left wing parties also love refugees as potential future voters.

I'm curious how you reconcile this viewpoint with the concern trolling about Muslims being ultraconservative and undermining women's rights.

[Grokresh]

Socialist/left wing parties also love refugees as potential future voters.

Dunno, lots of them come from conservative countries so would probably vote conservative surely? Who knows, leftwing but I don't really want any immigration into england unless it is benefical to us on a case by case basis. A goverments first duty is to protect its people first and foremost, till that is done in every way that immigration makes harder immigration is a problem.

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That sounds like a great plan, so long as the people also get to decide whether they support a foreign war, corporate welfare, private welfare, and border security costs. I'm all for it.

Foreign wars sort of yes make sense, the others however are about the wellbeing of a country of course tax goes towards the well being of a country and you shouldn't get to decide whether to support that or not hence the elections. But the tax being used for foreigners is not the same thing at all as tax going towards wellfare and border security, it's going to aid other people not what the intension of the tax is, people pay tax for roads, hospitals, schools for their country, not for others.

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I'm curious how you reconcile this viewpoint with the concern trolling about Muslims being ultraconservative and undermining women's rights.

A great point they often seem to ignore.

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They actually don't, at least in the US. Can't speak for elsewhere.

Illegals can't sign up for welfare in the US for fear of being discovered and deported, and non-illegals generally don't have issues with welfare. Hell, Trumpites were so desperate to prove some connection between economic decline and immigration that they ran an entire study and omitted that the study itself proved them wrong and tried to shut down the entire study once it was already proven they were wrong. That refugees to the US actually contributed back MORE to the economy than they take, by approximately $63 billion.

(Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/trump...-impact-2017-9 )

If anything, I'd like to see similar studies done around the world.

It's not purely about money as I said, we are lacking school spaces, we don't have enough housing even when people can afford it, we don't have enough capacity for our hospitals. We are in austerity and the last thing we need with the tories hammering us is pushing these problems further, no money may not be freed up your right but less unskilled immigrants and refugees (Skilled ones are welcome when we lack what they have ofc) means less capacity is needed for housing, hospitals and schools. We cannot build enough houses to keep up with demand at the moment, we don't have the space simply with our infrastcture. The tories won't improve that, so the best bet other then that is less immigration which is slowly happening probably due to brexit putting people off.