The mess that is leveling dungeons

[bash the fash]

Nothing lives long enough to matter. So why bother?

you're making my point for me friend.

the poster I quoted complains about people not using CC as if this is some critical skill to learn, when the actual max-level content doesn't require any of these super-important skills. So why exactly should leveling be different?

[Mercane]

you're making my point for me friend.

the poster I quoted complains about people not using CC as if this is some critical skill to learn, when the actual max-level content doesn't require any of these super-important skills. So why exactly should leveling be different?

Oh- I agree with you, I think they could give people interrupts earlier, just so they can at least learn to use them (even though they won't) but outside of Mythic Raiding and High Mythic+ Keys, using CC is just not something most PvE players know how to do well, if at all.

[fishoa]

In case you're wondering why the queues are so long, it's because we all went to PvP instead of LFD. Instead of spamming dungeons, we're spamming BGs and hoping for a win. The reasons are many: LFD xp/min nerf, overtuned dungeons, noob players dying all the time, no heirloom idiots looking for an amazing "experience" while everybody just wants to finish it as soon as possible... not worth the hassle.

[FertsBlert]

you're making my point for me friend.

the poster I quoted complains about people not using CC as if this is some critical skill to learn, when the actual max-level content doesn't require any of these super-important skills. So why exactly should leveling be different?

Uh no that is not what I was saying, can you even fucking read?

What I actually said was if CC\Interrupts are needed in leveling dungeons and are not available at the level you are doing the dungeon Blizzard needs to either adjust the encounter or make that skill available at that level.

[Banquetto]

Tip: most of the time if your tank is out healing your healer, your healer is shit.

Or the tank is taking so little damage that their self-healing keeps them topped off, and the healer never really sees any HP drop worth reacting to.

[ydraw]

and the dungeons were at a decent enough difficulty so that players had to remain active

This part is simply not true at all. Tanks basically soloed the entire dungeon until you got to Cataclysm content. It was boring as hell for everyone else. That's why it was changed.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh- I agree with you, I think they could give people interrupts earlier, just so they can at least learn to use them (even though they won't) but outside of Mythic Raiding and High Mythic+ Keys, using CC is just not something most PvE players know how to do well, if at all.

This is mostly because the way monsters deal damage was changed back in WOTLK.

You used to *need* to use CC because TBC monsters just had really powerful auto attacks, and there was no way to avoid dealing with it except CCing. Nowadays the emphasis is more on interrupting and stunning mobs because every class has an interrupt and a stun, and most of the big hitting abilities are interruptable or avoidable in some way.

Only like 4 classes even had an interrupt in TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

In case you're wondering why the queues are so long, it's because we all went to PvP instead of LFD. Instead of spamming dungeons, we're spamming BGs and hoping for a win. The reasons are many: LFD xp/min nerf, overtuned dungeons, noob players dying all the time, no heirloom idiots looking for an amazing "experience" while everybody just wants to finish it as soon as possible... not worth the hassle.

That's not why queues are long. It doesn't even make sense since queue length is not related to the amount of people queuing - it's related to role balance.

The reason there are long queues now is because healing got a shitload harder, and more mob HP in the outdoor world means that a lot of people who previously leveled as healers are just doing quests in DPS spec instead. So everyone is in the queue as tank and DPS spec waiting for a healer to queue to complete the group. If you queue as heals, your dungeon will pop instantly.

[Shakou]

Or the tank is taking so little damage that their self-healing keeps them topped off, and the healer never really sees any HP drop worth reacting to.

Ya sure that can happen but I said most of the time. That scenario is not the case most of the time. Most of the time people aren't doing trivial content, and nobody was talking about that anyways, talking about content where wipes are possible. And a shitty healer can fuck you up even on trivial bullshit, you have no idea.

Either way, you lose any credibility for anything you have to say for pretending that it's okay for someone to afk or essentially be a non participant in group content they queued for.

[Mercane]

This is mostly because the way monsters deal damage was changed back in WOTLK.

You used to *need* to use CC because TBC monsters just had really powerful auto attacks, and there was no way to avoid dealing with it except CCing. Nowadays the emphasis is more on interrupting and stunning mobs because every class has an interrupt and a stun, and most of the big hitting abilities are interruptable or avoidable in some way.

Only like 4 classes even had an interrupt in TBC.

I'd be willing to wager a fair portion of modern WoW's playerbase didn't play Vanilla or TBC.

I do like the feel of the new dungeons, and I'm one of the few that's not at all bothered by the 'leveling experience' taking a few hours longer.

[Sturmbringe]

P.S. I've never understood the prejudice against Russian or Brazilian or whatever players.

The Vanilla server I play on has got a lot of Russians. Let me explain to you how doing a dungeon with Russians is like:

Me: Hi mate.

Russian: дффсдфггфсгфгфдсаф

Me: Please use sunder armor to maintain threat b/c we can't DPS.

Russian: сдерпуийкрфгугфйкнфгфаадффг

Me: Go right

Russian: хцв.,мнвч,м.н чв,.мхцва

Me: Pls pull right pack

Russian: гдфхкйгхлйкгхфдйклосгфкл

Me: Where are you guys from?

Russian: дфгбдйклгфлйггйл;кгхфсг

Me: Pls don't pull healer needs mana

Russian: рхйкрайрайкрттреаерттгрет

You are in a Capital city trying to chill.

Russians: /y фдгфгм,лфглмйфляйлк;фгфгфг гуилдуску BEARS рецруитску ретгтеыхтгхггфсфгсфгфг. ДКП. Угх

Do you understand now why people are prejudiced against Russian WoW players?

[InfernalDark]

Yep, ruskies are the cancer of WoW. They already ruined Swtor when it went f2p, now doing the same with WoW.

[Alduin]

Yep, ruskies are the cancer of WoW. They already ruined Swtor when it went f2p, now doing the same with WoW.

You could say the same for french or germans or whatever. There are just groups or players who cannot or do not want to speak english. I have no clue why on EU servers they group them up. It's pretty unnecessary for leveling dungeons. If you join e.g. random heroics you get grouped according to language but apparently not when using it in lower dungeons.

Tried to level my paladin alt through dungeons (like I usually did). With leveling gear it is not hard - but the reward compared to the scaled content outside just has shrunken a lot. I rather go 2h dps and do quests in the old world, then abuse dungeons in some later content.

All the other (mechanic based) issues are nothing new - see Timewalking. Never understood why they just scaled levels but never mechanics. On my druid I play completely different in Timewalking (mostly dot and dispel) compared to current dungeons. Happens if you redesign classes every 3years and then try to re-deliver old content. They could fix most of the issues if they gave baseline mechanics (e.g. interrupts) on the same CD to all the classes - and not hand druids a 1min silence beam and shamans some 12sec interrupt with spell school lock.

IMHO: I like timewalking a lot more as it forces players to understand their class and use their abilities. But oh boi you get something going if someone misses his 1min spell interrupt in the rotation.

[Transmigration]

They're still really easy. You just get to wack on stuff more and it's fun (imo). Where is this challenge I keep reading about?

[Sturmbringe]

You could say the same for french or germans or whatever. There are just groups or players who cannot or do not want to speak english. I have no clue why on EU servers they group them up. It's pretty unnecessary for leveling dungeons. If you join e.g. random heroics you get grouped according to language but apparently not when using it in lower dungeons.

Here in Europe everyone speaks 2 languages minimum, many people speak three languages fluently and understand two more languages and a few speak 4 languages fluently.

I never met a German who didn't speak English or French.

Frenchies who won't speak English out of chauvinism aren't a problem because virtually every Western European speaks or understands French.

For instance, I speak French, German and Spanish and I can understand Italian maybe 85%, apart from Greek and Hebrew.

The problem is specifically Russian players and Chinese b/c they speak only Slavic/Chinese respectively and that's it.

[Tamurello]

Dungeon quest reward XP should be beefed to make it worth doing them at least once

[Delaios]

Here in Europe everyone speaks 2 languages minimum, many people speak three languages fluently and understand two more languages and a few speak 4 languages fluently.

I never met a German who didn't speak English or French.

Frenchies who won't speak English out of chauvinism aren't a problem because virtually every Western European speaks or understands French.

For instance, I speak French, German and Spanish and I can understand Italian maybe 85%, apart from Greek and Hebrew.

The problem is specifically Russian players and Chinese b/c they speak only Slavic/Chinese respectively and that's it.

Yeah, this is all pretty much bullshit.
http://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/...ebs_386_en.pdf

Everyone in Europe speaks 2 languages minimum? Most British, Spanish and Italians don't. France is roughly 50/50. And 1 in 4 Europeans being able to hold a conversation in at least 2 foreign languages hardly equates to "many people speak three languages fluently and understand two more languages".

Never met a German who doesn't speak Enlish or French? 1 in 3 germans don't speak a second language. You're either not talking to a lot of germans.

Most western europeans being able to speak/understand French is a bold statement. The only countries with more than 20% being able to hold a conversation in French are Belgium (44%) and the Netherlands (29%). Belgium is pretty much a given when a big chunk of it has it as it's primary language. Netherlands surprises me that it's so high, probably has to do with France being the most popular holiday destination. In any case, stating that virtually every western european speaks or understands french is blatantly false.

[Mormolyce]

The Vanilla server I play on has got a lot of Russians. Let me explain to you how doing a dungeon with Russians is like:

Me: Hi mate.

Russian: дффсдфггфсгфгфдсаф

Me: Please use sunder armor to maintain threat b/c we can't DPS.

Russian: сдерпуийкрфгугфйкнфгфаадффг

Me: Go right

Russian: хцв.,мнвч,м.н чв,.мхцва

Me: Pls pull right pack

Russian: гдфхкйгхлйкгхфдйклосгфкл

Me: Where are you guys from?

Russian: дфгбдйклгфлйггйл;кгхфсг

Me: Pls don't pull healer needs mana

Russian: рхйкрайрайкрттреаерттгрет

You are in a Capital city trying to chill.

Russians: /y фдгфгм,лфглмйфляйлк;фгфгфг гуилдуску BEARS рецруитску ретгтеыхтгхггфсфгсфгфг. ДКП. Угх

Do you understand now why people are prejudiced against Russian WoW players?

Is it because they type random Cyrillic characters a lot?

[Jngizu]

Yeah, this is all pretty much bullshit.
http://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/...ebs_386_en.pdf

Everyone in Europe speaks 2 languages minimum? Most British, Spanish and Italians don't. France is roughly 50/50. And 1 in 4 Europeans being able to hold a conversation in at least 2 foreign languages hardly equates to "many people speak three languages fluently and understand two more languages".

Never met a German who doesn't speak Enlish or French? 1 in 3 germans don't speak a second language. You're either not talking to a lot of germans.

Most western europeans being able to speak/understand French is a bold statement. The only countries with more than 20% being able to hold a conversation in French are Belgium (44%) and the Netherlands (29%). Belgium is pretty much a given when a big chunk of it has it as it's primary language. Netherlands surprises me that it's so high, probably has to do with France being the most popular holiday destination. In any case, stating that virtually every western european speaks or understands french is blatantly false.

Yeah, as a Belgian, I have no fucking idea where his claims come from. A ton of German barely speak English. Them understanding French is just ludicrous.

Also, you forgot Switzerland (I guess because non-EU) for French and I guess a lot of Italians could have a rough understanding of it. I know I can somewhat understand Italian as a French native without ever learning it. AFAIK, it's the same for them.

[riptal]

Maybe dungeons should just have more quests in it. A bit like Legion, you can finish every storyline in dungeons that gives a good reward. But also we should have more quests at various point in the storyline that brings you back in those dungeons... Now with the range of dungeons, we could have quests to bring us back there at any point of leveling. I remember back in the days I had to go back in Deamines like 3 times to complete all my quests. Same for Stockade.. As soon as I tough I had finish all quests in there, a new quest in Wetland makes me go again in Stockades to kill a guy. It was cool!

[Deleted]

XP vs time spend in a dungeon is just too far apart now.

[Delaios]

Yeah, as a Belgian, I have no fucking idea where his claims come from. A ton of German barely speak English. Them understanding French is just ludicrous.

Also, you forgot Switzerland (I guess because non-EU) for French and I guess a lot of Italians could have a rough understanding of it. I know I can somewhat understand Italian as a French native without ever learning it. AFAIK, it's the same for them.

Yeah, the source was from the EU, so it makes sense that Switzerland isn't listed.

And I was always very skeptical about how often people cite Europeans being good at "speaking" other languages. You only need to hear the average Dutch/German person speak English to now that it's not even remotely fluent. Most Dutch people sound like Louis van Gaal when trying to speak English (horrible accent and translating sentences word for word instead of making grammatically correct ones).
In the case of Dutch people being so multilingual (90% English, 71% German), you can probably expect the quality of that German to drop considerably in the years to come. You learn languages mostly through (continued) exposure. Older generations were exposed to German, whereas newer generations are heavily exposed to English. Some older generations are starting to pick up bits of English, but newer generations aren't picking up German at the same pace. My parents are so so in English and very proficient in German. My English is good, but my German sucks. I always end up saying Dutch words with a German accent at some point. Like hearing a redneck talk Spanish by adding -o or -a to the end of every word.
My English would probably suck as well if we also dubbed all foreign art like they do in Germany. If they suddenly start dubbing English shows/movies into Dutch, I'd stop watching them entirely and I'd pirate an English version instead. I even install all software in English, makes it much easier to troubleshoot stuff if I run into a problem. I've seen English shows that were dubbed in German once, and that shit looks/sounds absolutely ridiculous.