Demo lock gameplay idea

[MisterBigglez]

I think we can all agree that the current demo lock is not exactly good.

I'd like to see demo as a hybrid spec. Both range and melee. If you have played FFXIV Red Mage, you will understand what I mean, though it wouldn't work the same.

The spec would swap between range and melee depending on how much of a resource you have. Once you reach max, your abilites change into melee attacks. This is where the majority of damage comes in. Sounds a bit similar to how meta was like with lock, pop meta, spend your resources on powerful attacks. So how would this version work? Well ive come up with some ideas of spells and mechanics.

Resource

Fel Energy 0-200

Your range attacks generate Fel Energy and once you reach max energy, you have access to the ability Nefarious Incarnate, where you hulk out into a form similar to how Gul'dan looked when he transitioned to phase 2 and lunge towards your target.

While hulked out, your Fel Energy drains at a rate of 10 p/s and theres nothing you can do to prolong it, but you now have access to brand new spells.

Abilities

Shadowbolt - Generates 15 Fel Energy 1.5 sec cast 40 yrds - Fire a ball of shadowy energy, dealing x amount of damage to the target and each target afflicted with Fel Infused. Has a 50% chance to activate Demonbolt

Demonbolt - Generates 25 Fel Energy Instant Cast 40 yrds - Conjure a shard of demonic energy and launch it towards your target, dealing x amount of damage and applies a dot effect equal to the damage dealt over 5 seconds.

Eye of Gul'dan - 20 second cd Instant Cast 40 yrds - Summon an Eye of Gul'dan to gaze upon your target, dealing x amount of damage over 5 seconds to enemies within 10 yrds of the target and applying Fel Infused to each target hit.

Fel Infused - Debuff from Eye of Gul'dan - 5% increased damage taken for 5 seconds. Refreshes duration from each hit.

Hand of Gul'dan - Generates 30 Fel Energy 20 second cd - Summon a demonic meteor with a random demon inside. Dealing x amount of damage to the target and releasing the demon from within. A random pick from 3 demons can be summoned. Lasts 10 seconds

Imp - Casts a fireball at the target, dealing x damage and granting the Warlock 5 Fel Energy

Felhound - Bites the target, dealing x damage and increasing the chance of Demonbolt activating by 5%

Observer - Gaze towards the target, dealing x damage every second for 10 seconds, increasing by 10% every second.


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Once you reach max Fel Energy and use Nefarious Incarnate, your spells are changed/upgrades

Shadowbolt = Sever

Demonbolt = Expunge

Eye of Gul'dan = Fel Scythe

Hand of Gul'dan = Empowered Hand of Gul'dan

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Sever - Melee range no cd - Sever your target, dealing x damage. Critical strikes activates Expunge

Expunge - Melee range requires proc - Attempt to destroy the targets soul, dealing x damage and applying Damaged Soul to the target

Damaged Soul - Debuff - Damage taken increased by 5%, lasts 10 seconds, can stack.

Fel Scythe - 10 yrds costs 20 Fel Energy - Slice in front of you, dealing x damage to all targets within 10 yrds. Each successive Fel Scythe increases the damage and cost of Fel Scythe by 20%

Empowered Hand of Gul'dan - 1 charge - Summon a huge demonic meteor with a powerful demon inside, dealing x damage to the target and releasing the demon from within. A random pick from 3 demons can be summoned. Lasts 10 seconds. You gain a charge each time you enter Nefarious Incarnate

Fel lord - Bladestorm - The Fel Lord becomes an uncontrollable storm of destructive force, striking all targets within 8 yrds. The Fel Lord follows its target

Pit Lord - Blitz of Destruction - The Pit Lord unleashes a powerful attack on the target, dealing x damage

Inquisitor - Demonic Transmission - Channels into the target and transfers a portion of the targets powers into the Warlock, decreasing the targets damage dealt by 5% and increasing the warlocks damage dealt by 5%

Once your energy is reduced to 0, you are launched back 30 yrds and stunned for 2 seconds.



This is just something I mashed together for a bit of fun, but what do you think?

[Gathiz]

Sounds better than what we currently have but I’d rather have the meta-style gameplay back. I find the summoner theme to be extremely boring and uninteresting.

[Biomega]

Sounds better than what we currently have but I’d rather have the meta-style gameplay back. I find the summoner theme to be extremely boring and uninteresting.

Meta is not coming back, period. Better be constructive about something that is going to happen instead. Meta is a DH ability now.

[Gathiz]

Meta is not coming back, period. Better be constructive about something that is going to happen instead. Meta is a DH ability now.

I am giving feedback. And if you read my post, I say a “Meta-like” game play not Meta specifically.

And how do you know what will come back? Kinda like Classic servers, eh?

[Biomega]

I am giving feedback. And if you read my post, I say a “Meta-like” game play not Meta specifically.

And how do you know what will come back? Kinda like Classic servers, eh?

You didn't say "a meta-like gameplay", you said "the meta-style gameplay", i.e. using the definite article. That means referring to something specific and known (old Meta) and not something new and hypothetical. I can't read minds, only words.

And by "not coming back" I mean "not coming back in the context of this discussion, pertaining to the foreseeable future of changes to the Demonology spec in the course of the BfA class changes". That should have been abundantly clear from the entire discussion, unless you're trying to be deliberately obstinate.

In general, I believe the greatest value in player feedback lies in critique of existing changes rather than the invention of brand new ones. Blizzard has professional designers, they usually do not need or want input on that fundamental a level, especially not this far down the line. All the fundamental changes have been made (though not published) and it's unlikely for something truly substantial to change dramatically before release simply because of the work it would take; and since we have not even SEEN the Demo changes, it's probably best to reserve judgment for when we do, and work with what they have come up with. It's not impossible dramatic changes could be implemented on short notice, but that would require some fairly severe misjudgment on Blizzard's part about what they're trying to put in. While not without precedent, it's become less and less common in recent history to the point where I simply do not expect it to happen for BfA.

What COULD happen is that they publish a set of changes, but have some alternatives in reserve as possible switches based on player feedback. But I'll reserve this, again, until there's actual information.

[Feali]

I actually really like this. Not sure about the melee style but I like the fantasy. The new Hand of Gul'dan is an interesting design, it opens the way for (bear with me) a petless Demo specc which just summons random demons through HoG.

[Gathiz]

In general, I believe the greatest value in player feedback lies in critique of existing changes rather than the invention of brand new ones. Blizzard has professional designers, they usually do not need or want input on that fundamental a level, especially not this far down the line.

Since we have not seen any changes, I felt the need to voice my opinion as a consumer of their product and what I would like to see. Those “professional designers” obviously do need input as they butchered a great spec and turned it into one of the least popular specs in legion. Even Blizzard admitted it was a failure.

[Biomega]

Since we have not seen any changes, I felt the need to voice my opinion as a consumer of their product and what I would like to see. Those “professional designers” obviously do need input as they butchered a great spec and turned it into one of the least popular specs in legion. Even Blizzard admitted it was a failure.

That's true, but they have a process; and that process does not usually include "let's see what the community comes up with". Rather, it's "we've come up with this thing, let's see what the community thinks about it". You can probably count on one hand the number of times where the community has come up with some class mechanic from the ground up and Blizzard actually ended up implementing it. It happens with QoL features from time to time, but actual class abilities etc. practically never.

[Deleted]

Hm,,, I feel like there are still missing a few spells for one. I also would rather like to stay a range class that doesn't need to move into melee range for our burst damage.

Another problem with this is that blizzard views demonology warlocks as a primarily (big) pet using class. The 'Hand of Gul'dan summons a random demon' is a nice bit, but the proposed powers those random demons exert are too vastly different and would cause a HoG to either be awesome or abysmal.

Maybe we need something less RNG. Just as an example: Hand of Gul'dan 50-200 Fel energy. Summon a demonic meteor with a demon inside. Dealing x amount of damage to the target and releasing the demon within. Which demon is summoned depends on the amount of Fel used. (50 imps?, 100 Felhunter, 150 Observer, 200 Felguard)
Or summoning a demon could be a separate spell. Guess we will have to wait and see what Blizz has in store for us.

[MisterBigglez]

Hm,,, I feel like there are still missing a few spells for one. I also would rather like to stay a range class that doesn't need to move into melee range for our burst damage.

Another problem with this is that blizzard views demonology warlocks as a primarily (big) pet using class. The 'Hand of Gul'dan summons a random demon' is a nice bit, but the proposed powers those random demons exert are too vastly different and would cause a HoG to either be awesome or abysmal.

Maybe we need something less RNG. Just as an example: Hand of Gul'dan 50-200 Fel energy. Summon a demonic meteor with a demon inside. Dealing x amount of damage to the target and releasing the demon within. Which demon is summoned depends on the amount of Fel used. (50 imps?, 100 Felhunter, 150 Observer, 200 Felguard)
Or summoning a demon could be a separate spell. Guess we will have to wait and see what Blizz has in store for us.

I only really came up with the core spells, none which are cooldowns or talents etc so thats probably why it feels like theres stuff missing.

I was thinking instead of it being random, that each second, the icon of HoG changes colour to indicate which demon is inside, so you can pick and choose which one you cast for the occasion. Though it could end up being that one demon is always going to be favoured.

To follow up on your idea, I feel as though prolonging the uptime of Nefarious Incarnate wouldn't be worth it if HoG were to consume Fel Energy, hence why I just kept it as a short cd with a fairly large generation of Fel Energy. I guess it really depends on the strength of the demons inside.

I look forward to seeing what blizz has in store for the spec. So far its not looking great, but I reckon they are doing a full rework of the spec so its not going to be ready for a while.

[lummiuster]

Sounds like a good idea. Would like to have demon to work like Guldan indeed

[Gathiz]

That's true, but they have a process; and that process does not usually include "let's see what the community comes up with". Rather, it's "we've come up with this thing, let's see what the community thinks about it". You can probably count on one hand the number of times where the community has come up with some class mechanic from the ground up and Blizzard actually ended up implementing it. It happens with QoL features from time to time, but actual class abilities etc. practically never.

If that’s true, and I agree that it is, it could be said of this whole thread.

[Deleted]

I only really came up with the core spells, none which are cooldowns or talents etc so thats probably why it feels like theres stuff missing.

I was thinking instead of it being random, that each second, the icon of HoG changes colour to indicate which demon is inside, so you can pick and choose which one you cast for the occasion. Though it could end up being that one demon is always going to be favoured.

To follow up on your idea, I feel as though prolonging the uptime of Nefarious Incarnate wouldn't be worth it if HoG were to consume Fel Energy, hence why I just kept it as a short cd with a fairly large generation of Fel Energy. I guess it really depends on the strength of the demons inside.

I look forward to seeing what blizz has in store for the spec. So far its not looking great, but I reckon they are doing a full rework of the spec so its not going to be ready for a while.

Yea, I was mostly trying to work something out WITHOUT Nefarious Incarnate. I honestly miss WoD demonology the most, but the idea of having to melee range is just not my favorite choice.

Maybe keep the idea of Nefarious Incarnate but instead of you going all melee, the summon demons spells their CDs become 200% quicker. That way we would be able to get multiple greater demons out. Of course the filler etc could still change when you use that form (maybe some talents around using the filler more instead of spam summoning demons)

[Challenge]

We dont need a massive demo rework. Its fine as is now.

All it needs is
Demonic Empowerment removed/reworked
haste reliance reduced by adding value to crit/master
more ways to summon different demons
Spec thematic survivability spell other than drain life

Meta isnt coming back. Its on demon hunters where it belongs. Stop with this obesssion and let it go.

Once your energy is reduced to 0, you are launched back 30 yrds and stunned for 2 seconds.

Literally why. Why would that ever be fun in any context in any content ever?

[MisterBigglez]

We dont need a massive demo rework. Its fine as is now.

Literally why. Why would that ever be fun in any context in any content ever?

"Class Fantasy"

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I think they' re trying the opposite of this for survival hunter. It's got me interested to try the spec out, so I'm not averse to the idea, but making you go into the melee as a ranged isn't ideal, since sometimes it's just bad to be a melee, and if it's your major cooldown you lose a ton of damage on certain bosses. I don't want to have to delay my biggest source of damage because Krosus is going to smash the bridge soon, or be unable to go ham on the infernal-style adds because of all the fire around them.

[Werst]

If blizz doesn't do a big time revamp they are going to have to do quite a bit of renovation to the existing framework. Challenge is correct in that the spec isn't as broken as some hyperbole suggests, but it also isn't as rosy as a die hard makes it out to be either. The failing blizzard likes to make is comparing it vs other lock specs instead of vs other classes. What will make a player play the new demo over BM or UHDK or the other lock specs?

*DE would be fine as a 1 minute mini cooldown similar in power to BM but again we start to drift into copying that spec...effective but lazy.

*Haste addiction needs to be broken and making many things instant would go a long way towards that. Also lets the spec function in raids/5 mans. I would have mastery just be flat pet damage/HP and crit may need a mechanic that gives pets a damage or even haste (energy regen?) boost? Simpler but I think demo strayed too far into needless complexity for complexity sake.

*While I do support meta staying with the DH crowd and letting that go...the much hated quasi tank glyph had a gameplay mechanic that wasn't awful...the charges that recharged might not be an awful system for the new demo and would help break the haste addiction if you didn't have to spastically spam cast to keep up. The spec has so many other limitations it should be able to function amidst interruption almost like a melee. FFS BM has been entirely mobile and the world hasn't ended. How would demo having such freedom break the world?

*I think less pets who are always out, a couple guardian CD's, and casted abilities causing pets to perform extra attacks or buffing them some other way might be a more interesting way to go. Passive multi spell integration like a grimoire of synergy but interacting on multiple spells/pets passively seems more interesting (and has precedent Doombserver) than treating pets like temporary spammable dots. The amount of shards used with an ability may determine its potency similar to a combo point or holy power or whatever...not original either but could settle the nukes vs pets thing well and lets the spec respond in a timely fashion.

*Things like implosion could be done better. Its passive should have always been a suicide on death so as to provide passive cleave instead of hair trigger timing to just break even. Bad execution of an otherwise good idea. Give it the on death passive suicide and a much higher per imp damage with a 4-8 imp cap and it would have been a perfect skill for dungeons or snap burst in raid.

Doom I am fine with but maybe something that grants partial ticks or unused time/damage to "roll up" to subsequent targets so in short time to die scenarios the spec isn't useless? This is an area that could use some fleshing out. There has to be a way to keep some iconic flare here but make the spell a bit more functional without breaking stuff...on death big tick after awhile is a fine trade but we need some middle ground too. By roll up I mean if your target has 10 of 20 seconds left when it died and doom would have ticked for 1000 damage 500 damage is xfered to a nearby random target.

Right now they need to play BM and play DK and figure out what it would take to get people to leave those classes for demo. Not what it would take to get people to leave affliction, that is silly. Neither should they look at how big a crap they can take on the chest of affliction and destro to force players into demo...that would be an even greater mistake.

[Firedemon]

Sounds better than what we currently have but I’d rather have the meta-style gameplay back. I find the summoner theme to be extremely boring and uninteresting.

Pretty much anything sounds better than current demo. Agree on the summoner theme.