really, why do you want changes to classic?

[AceofH]

Because I like balance, making specs balanced so that you can actually play what you want to play and not what is the only viable choice in my opinion doesn't make classic any worse, one of the dumbest arguments I've heard against balancing specs is that it is a slippery slope that will lead to LFR being implemented.. Thats a leap of logic that makes Alex Jones seem sane.

I will play it regardless just to try and emulate my original main character, although I am gonna level much faster than I did back then since I know the vast majority of the quests and thus I will spend less time running around like a headless chicken.

How balanced are you talking? Say a mage does 1k dps, how much should a balance/elemental/shadow do?

Btw the only hybrids my guild didn't bring to naxx was shaman. Cuz we were alliance. Sounds viable to me

[Thimagryn]

i have a thread on this but what would be better? better itemization or skill/talent balancing?

It needs to be both because of unforeseen consequences on 'simple' changes.

Here's an example - Feral Druids get crushed and there is a lack of +Def Leather gear. So the answer to Feral Tanking is simple - add more +Def Blues and/or Epics right? But then you allow Rogues access to the same gear and suddenly you'll have an adventurous few exploit the system and we have Rogue Tanks taking spots because they game the system from being able to cap their defense and their high AGI and evasion gives them great short-term survivability while being able to output full DPS, making 5-6 Rogues all wearing +Def gear and trading threat off each other an easy way to off-tank while stacking DPS.

I would personally suggest revisiting core tanking talents (one that a Resto Hybrid would not be able to access) and potentially implementing a solution in that regard. My example solution is a deep Feral talent that provides Crushing Blow protection (from one source) after taking a Crushing Blow. The problem with Feral survivability is that the Healers can't out-heal 2 CB's back to back. They have the health, they have the armor and they can soak a Crushing Blow, but RNG unlucky string of CB's can outright kill a Druid.

This example removes the RNG element out of Crushing Blows, does not touch Itemization so we don't need to add new gear to dilute the Leather tables, and we maintain our uniqueness because Feral is the 'non-Defense capped health sponge' Tank that are still viable but do not overshadow Warriors. The intention of this talent is for Tanks to be high-armor high-health damage sponges, and Healers will have to adapt to healing spikier damage, but overall Bears will take less damage than Warriors because of their high armor and are more consistent for healing because they don't rely on dodge/block/parry to mitigate attacks. This talent also doesn't affect PVP since there are no Crushing Blows unless you're fighting someone 3+ levels higher than you; a situation that's already unbalanced.

In my example, the key is balancing the talents and figuring where in the trees to put this so that we don't have EZ Resto Hybrids being able to main tank bosses. And yes, this example assumes that changes are happening in Vanilla and not meant to maintain any Vanilla Purist wet dream. Every time I post a constructive suggestion such as this, someone ultimately chimes in with 'Then it's not Vanilla'. We usually don't get to discuss any constructive examples based on their merits and drawbacks when the criticism is 'Druids shouldn't tank, stop QQing'

[ZazuuPriest]

trolling?
real concern with the game?

and will you play without the changes?

Because looting everything one at a time and fighting 100 people OF THE SAME FACTION ON THE SAME QUESTS for mobs is fucking not immersive its pointless tedium

But w.e Ill play whatever they release i would be more than happy if it were straight up vanilla i just hope they start at an early patch and progress them because starting at 1.12 would be a mistake imo

[Halyon]

Because while classic had some good things, it also had a lot of crap, and I genuinly believe that if they want to re-launch it, they should improve some of them...because now they have the tools to do it better.

The original, nostalgic feeling cannot be recreated. It just can't.

[Daedius]

Vanilla was far from perfect (one such example, the abysmal balancing [Blizzard even admitted they didn't have the whole balancing philosophy back then... so people saying it WAS are speaking out of their ass]), and can be improved upon.

[AceofH]

Vanilla was far from perfect, and can be improved upon.

But what you consider an improvement someone else might not.

[Mayia]

trolling?
real concern with the game?

and will you play without the changes?

Oh no, most of us are 200% okay with those who want the "classic wow only" to get a server that has 8 debuff slots and all the roll outs that came with the first release of wow.
We'd just also like Blizzard to consider having a couple of other servers that run a Classic plus experience with meeting stones working as they did in the tbc pre-patch flight paths linked and other considerable quality of life upgrades.
But nobody wants to deny the "hardcore crybabies" their elite classic server, and i'd also love if there were no changes to that server until it'd been up 6 months and over half of the accounts with a level 60 character can agree what changes to make.

[Xecks]

Oh no, most of us are 200% okay with those who want the "classic wow only" to get a server that has 8 debuff slots and all the roll outs that came with the first release of wow.
We'd just also like Blizzard to consider having a couple of other servers that run a Classic plus experience with meeting stones working as they did in the tbc pre-patch flight paths linked and other considerable quality of life upgrades.
But nobody wants to deny the "hardcore crybabies" their elite classic server, and i'd also love if there were no changes to that server until it'd been up 6 months and over half of the accounts with a level 60 character can agree what changes to make.

ya i think i agree with this. at least the meeting stones thing.

[jellmoo]

Some people think that Classic = Pure Vanilla. Others disagree and think that Classic = Vanilla + QOL. Only Blizzard knows what their ultimate plan for Classic is.

[Soon-TM]

Some people think that Classic = Pure Vanilla. Others disagree and think that Classic = Vanilla + QOL. Only Blizzard knows what their ultimate plan for Classic is.

The thing is that "QoL" can mean almost anything, from new character models to LFD. Especially since most people asking for QoL forget to define it first.

[jellmoo]

The thing is that "QoL" can mean almost anything, from new character models to LFD. Especially since most people asking for QoL forget to define it first.

Sure. There's a wide array of different ideas of which of these are important and/or acceptable. Though I've seen a ton of people define their ideas in detail, so YMMV.

The flip side is there are those that refuse to entertain the notion of any change from Vanilla ans are convinced that Classic = Pure Vanilla.

[josykay]

The only change i honestly expect, and like, is to add it to the BlizzApp. Limited FL space, or needing an addon, to add player infos like main char names was fairly annoying.

[arel00]

I expect only integration with Battle.net will actually be done, because it would be stupid for Blizzard to launch a game and cut its players off from their own social platform.

That said, there are a couple minor changes that I'd like to see, like mail management. It's sopmething very minor which doesn't really affect gameplay or community, and something practically everyone used an addon for back then. I mean, honestly, I get the "it's not vanilla" position, and I also support it for most things, but stuff like opening multiple mails at once is hardly breaking the game.

[Grokresh]

I want pure classic unadulterated vanilla, wow but only as a break for when retail is empty of content like now, I want vanilla wow, not perfect vanilla wow with everything fixed, I want the nostalgia and the experience of what I remember. If I went back and for example mounts were easier to aquire, then I'd have much less to do just because I didn't have to spend ages farming mount money which was an important part about levelilng up for me, the pride in gathering the money for each of my characters mounts, if you change anything you may take away something seemingly inconvinent to you that mattered to someone else. If you fix enough problems it looses the soul of Vanilla wow.

[Tarba]

Because classic had a lot of imperfections. And it's completely stupid to want a real classic server with all its imperfections while it could be enhanced without denaturing it
So, no I won't play classic, or I'll try it some hours at best in a moment of boredom.

People wanting real classic are morons who can't even discern what is good or bad in a game. Their opinions should not even be taken into consideration. Vanilla was nice mostly because of the community and that new vanilla community will be filled with ludicrous people loving to smell their own ass.

[Xecks]

Because classic had a lot of imperfections. And it's completely stupid to want a real classic server with all its imperfections while it could be enhanced without denaturing it
So, no I won't play classic, or I'll try it some hours at best in a moment of boredom.

People wanting real classic are morons who can't even discern what is good or bad in a game. Their opinions should not even be taken into consideration. Vanilla was nice mostly because of the community and that new vanilla community will be filled with ludicrous people loving to smell their own ass.

ya . thats just like , your opinion man.

[therealbowser]

I'm against changes that effect the gameplay of classic. I am less offended by cosmetic or quality of life changes -- for instance connecting flightpaths instead of manually clicking each one isn't going to have me raging. Nor would be, say, adding transmogging or haircuts. And I actually directly support increasing server size (to 5k instead of 2.5k).

This isn't to say I am asking for those kinds of things, a classic experience in every sense would be just fine with me. But those wouldn't ruin my experience and in fact have the potential to increase my enjoyment of the game.

I would be strongly against, for instance, adding cross-realm anything (except battlegrounds, since that was actually added in vanilla) or changing the honor system (shit as it was, it was classic), however. Even adjusting respawn rates on mobs makes me uneasy... but I'd probably be a little more open minded about that.

[Jyggalag]

trolling?
real concern with the game?

and will you play without the changes?

Implying there haven't already been hundreds of comments with credible arguements/explanations for why anyone would want changes to Vanilla. Classic is not Vanilla. What a stupid question. This is a troll thread

[Echocho]

People need to stop asking for changes like bigger servers, dynamic respawns or the removal of crossrealm battlegrounds. Vanilla means vanilla, for better and for worse!

[jellmoo]

People need to stop asking for changes like bigger servers, dynamic respawns or the removal of crossrealm battlegrounds. Vanilla means vanilla, for better and for worse!

Sure, but does Classic mean Vanilla? That​ is the question.