No More Displacer Beast

[huth]

Wild Charge will still be pretty strong on any fight that's considered "outdoors" where Travel Form can be used, because you can just get a no limitations 20 yard blink then if you can get over the GCD for the form switch.

There's still a big difference between the two. Wild Charge moves you through the intervening space. Displacer Beast does not, it teleports you from your starting point to your destination.


I kinda hope they realise that having Renewal on the same row as Movement CDs is just a really dumb idea.

[Nihiel]

@ Tiberria

Nicely written and I completely agree. There's lots of inconsistencies between specs (mainly healers) in regards to how their movement is and how much their abilities are affected by it. I do think it makes no sense for Divine Hymn and Tranq to be stationary when HTT isn't, and it's not even like HTT is weaker in any way. Revival is strange too but I guess they had to make something different for the monk. It's a whole different game now compared to Cata and further back, but I'm happy because it seems like they're cutting back on mobility across the board. Cast time on rotational abilities like WG, PoM, Uplift (nvm it's Vivify now) etc was a good step in the right direction (even though I hated the change when it was implemented). I'm excited to see how they're gonna deal with all of this. If they're not gutting resto shaman and mw monk mobility, then of course druids losing DB is horrible.

[Deleted]

Dash is still baseline.

Baseline - 60% run speed for 10 seconds / 2 minute CD (on live it's 70% for 15 seconds / 3 minute CD)
With Tiger Dash talent - 200% run speed for 4 seconds degrading slower during the duration / 45 second CD

The Tiger Dash talent is terrible design for Resto/Balance, because it costs a GCD, then locks you out of being able to cast heals or dps spells for 4 seconds if you want to actually use the movement speed ability. On top of that for Balance, you're then spending a 2nd GCD getting back into Moonkin Form.

Let's compare this talent to the Shaman Gust of Wind talent. Tiger Dash will take you about the same distance as Gust of Wind, but Gust of Wind travels its distance in ~1 second vs 4 seconds. Gust of Wind also has a 15 second CD vs a 45 second CD for Tiger Dash, and it only effectively silences you for 1 GCD vs 3-4.

Then, let's compare a Resto Shaman with Gust of Wind vs a Resto Druid with Tiger's Dash in terms of mobility toolkit. Both classes have a 30% movement speed "form" that silences you while in it (Cat Form, Ghost Wolf). Both classes then have their movement speed talent, and the Shaman talent is superior in every way. The Druid won't have the long duration/long CD Dash either, because it's replaced by the talent. It's not unreasonable to say that Resto Shaman now have better mobility than Resto Druids, especially when you consider that Druids will no longer have mobile Tranq in BFA. That's completely fucking ridiculous, because mobility is supposed to be the strength of the class, and they are supposed to be reinforcing those strengths in BFA as a design goal. Why does a healer that is traditionally a turret/low mobility healer now have a superior movement toolkit when that's supposed to be our niche. They've gone way too far with this crap.

Enh shamans have good mobility as well (compared to feral for example) which proves this mobility madness is going crazy, everybody needs something, it has gotten to a point where if you dont have really powerfull defensives (immunities or some 90% reductions while CCed) you are dead because everyone and their mother have endless gap closers, movement speed increases and CC. They gave hybrids crazy healing, then they gut it to a point its weaker than pure dps have some instant abilities, so everyone needs the same toolkit and all of a sudden specs feel the same. And of course once you hand out freebies people will get mad when you try to take it away.

we will have to wait and see honestly, some say its still just datamined alpha but god damn it, we have heard this story "just wait and see, its not final yet" way too many times, people telling me to "wait and see" can go someplace else really, once stuff like this hits open beta its already late, once it hits live it takes roughly half an expansion to get fixed (if they fix it at all), but when is the right time?

Honestly I use displacer only on my resto druid, on all other specs I use wild charge. Im not sure actually how far and fast I will go with tiger dash ingame, I cant imagine it, especially with natural tiny lags we experience on daily basis. It would be cool if it provided something else on topof it, for example reduced AoE damage, or prowl for the duration, I dont know.

I would like to see a chart how are devs thinking when it comes to class/spec design/uniqueness. Like which classes are supposed to be highly mobile? As you say, is resto shaman, formerly stationary turret with higher armor and totems, a mobile spec? Is resto druid, formerly able to adapt to various forms (not just cosmetically), supposed to be mobile or mobile/tanky depending on talent chosen? And who should be more mobile, druid in general, or just feral, are monks supposed to be faster than druids? Where should we put demon hunters then? Crazy times and definitely lack of spec uniqueness for sure if we cant answer these questions.

[Thrif]

Well, there goes my favorite ability of all time I think. But I can understand why, it felt way too strong, especially in pvp.

[Deleted]

Well, there goes my favorite ability of all time I think. But I can understand why, it felt way too strong, especially in pvp.

I dont agree with it feeling to strong, i more or less feel the ability is necessary. Like somebody on page 3 already explained perfectly, today the classes are much more mobile than some years back. A druids signature feature was and should be the mobility. Now a shaman has almost more mobility - they also can still choose to give the group more mobility with the wind totem , but resto druids have already lost Stampeding Roar going into Legion. Like it has already been said, no more instant WG. No more moving Tranq.

Its not fair - and also not really balanced - to take away Displacer Beast too.

At least let it have the resto druids. We really need it, and would really struggle without it in comparison to other healers.

Blizzard should keep it, they could still disable it in pvp if that is something that bothers people.

Cast time on rotational abilities like WG, PoM, Uplift (nvm it's Vivify now) etc was a good step in the right direction (even though I hated the change when it was implemented). I'm excited to see how they're gonna deal with all of this. If they're not gutting resto shaman and mw monk mobility, then of course druids losing DB is horrible.

But why exactly do you want people to loose mobility again? I think thats one of the best things that happend to the game. It's just so boring to have boss fights that dont require mobility, just standing around, sometimes moving a few places. I really do not agree with cutting back here... it is skill potential and really makes the game feel more dynamic, faster, better in my opinion.

[Thrif]

Now a shaman has almost more mobility

How? Gust? DB was instant, removed snares, gave haste and shifted into your fastest form, Gust is you slowly farting away in a direction, they weren't comparable. And we're getting this new sprint thingy instead, which sound a lot more in line with what the other classes have.

[Tiberria]

How? Gust? DB was instant, removed snares, gave haste and shifted into your fastest form, Gust is you slowly farting away in a direction, they weren't comparable. And we're getting this new sprint thingy instead, which sound a lot more in line with what the other classes have.

It's nowhere near in line with what other classes have.

Just take Tiger's Dash vs Gust of Wind as an example.

15 second CD vs Tiger's Dash 45 second CD
Takes you about the same distance as Tiger's Dash in 1 second vs 4 seconds
You can cast again within a GCD compared to having to sit in Cat Form doing 0 HPS or DPS for 4 seconds
Tiger's Dash takes away your Dash ability (and possibility of having a longer 10 second Sprint altogether. Gust of Wind doesn't take away anything
A Druid with Tiger's Dash has only that + Cat Form for mobility. A Shaman has Gust of Wind (superior to TD in every way) plus Ghost Wolf (basically the same thing as Cat Form) plus Spiritwalker's Grace.
On top of that, Tranq will require standing still in BfA vs HTT requiring neither standing still nor channeling.

It's nowhere near comparable to what other classes have. It's giving Resto Druid's INFERIOR mobility to that of Shaman and Monks, effectively taking away the one niche/signature strength we have in PvE.

[TorikSAn]

Just looked at wiki that 100% move speed is about 7 m/ses, so with Tiger's Dash if it have linear speed boost reduction we will get 200 -> 150 -> 100 -> 50 -> 0% speed boost... Or if we count middle 175% in first second 125% in second 75% at third and just 25% in last... So we will get 300% out of total 400% in first 2 seconds and this is 300% * 7 = ~21m in 2 seconds (so it's not that bad, still more than one GCD 1,5 sec (before haste reductions). If you run total 4 sec you will get additional 28m (previous Displacer Beast = 20+100%(50%*2sec) = 27m).

So from distance and time taken it looks not that bad (with it's own pros/cons: you can make curved runs, not strait blink, but can't cross danger zones). But when we look at 45 sec CD (even more than DB) and replacing of basic Dash it's "the total disaster"... Most other short "speed boosting" skills usually have 15 sec CD (Blink, Gust of Wind, Wild Charge).

[Nihiel]

But why exactly do you want people to loose mobility again? I think thats one of the best things that happend to the game. It's just so boring to have boss fights that dont require mobility, just standing around, sometimes moving a few places. I really do not agree with cutting back here... it is skill potential and really makes the game feel more dynamic, faster, better in my opinion.

I sort of agree with you. I like that mobility is a skill and a necessity for mythic raiding at least. But for example, priests can stutter step very well, while mages/druids/ranged shamans/hunters can blink/disengage. This creates a situation where some classes trivialize and sometimes even negate movement mechanics while other classes actually have to deal with them properly. Think Mythic KJ and Rupturing Singularity - as a priest I could never not be in the right place (unless warlock gate was not on cd) while mages etc could just blink through it. Just look at how many people race changed to goblin specifically because Rocket Jump negates some movement mechanics. The same thing goes for immunities for soaking, rogues in a nutshell and immunity stacking on Fallen Avatar, KJ, Argus etc is just not balanced and creates a boring and inflexible raid environment.

I dont want all of these things removed but its not balanced in the slighest. I also do not want every class to be the exact same and have the same kit, but in reality when abilities like DB, Blink, SWG, Roll/Transcendance exist, they are creating the meta for many fights. Raid encounters are of course "balanced" without taking these abilities into consideration, but the value of having an extra ability to use if you fuck up dealing with the mechanic regularly is just broken.
These days it's also more about making sure your movement cd is not on cd when you have to dodge some stuff, while other more immobile classes like pala/dk/priest/warlock actually have to deal with the mechanics - by actually moving to avoid them, if that makes sense?

And to answer your question, it's not because I personally want mobility cut back. I just think that it should be one or the other, they're mutually exclusive at each end of the spectrum. Being able to do your rotation while moving (to some degree at least) is awesome. Half of the classes having blinks and disengages, while the other half doesn't, is just very boring and creates an environment where you feel held back if you do not have these abilities yourself. Surely you must agree that blinks as well as cloak/immunities make other classes feel inferior in most situations in the game?

[Deleted]

It's not like teleporting cats ever made any sense. This was just half assed crap. "Hey let's give druids blink" - "Yeah, but they'll have to be put in cat form when using it because ... because ... do we need a reason?"
Always wondered why did they go with that instead of something that actually made sense like a leap, jump, charge.

[Myztikrice]

It's not like teleporting cats ever made any sense. This was just half assed crap. "Hey let's give druids blink" - "Yeah, but they'll have to be put in cat form when using it because ... because ... do we need a reason?"
Always wondered why did they go with that instead of something that actually made sense like a leap, jump, charge.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Displacer_beast

[Mazzeric]

It's far too soon to start comparing healing toolkits as a basis for driving any argument about spell removal in BFA, especially bringing up Gust of Wind when talent rows aren't final (all the while ignoring that Resto Shamans aren't even taking Gust of Wind most of the time currently in PVE).

All this hyberbole over Displacer Beast as if the boon of Resto Druid mobility doesn't come from instant cast Rejuv and instead comes from its movement spells.

[Tiberria]

It's far too soon to start comparing healing toolkits as a basis for driving any argument about spell removal in BFA, especially bringing up Gust of Wind when talent rows aren't final (all the while ignoring that Resto Shamans aren't even taking Gust of Wind most of the time currently in PVE).

All this hyberbole over Displacer Beast as if the boon of Resto Druid mobility doesn't come from instant cast Rejuv and instead comes from its movement spells.

Yes, they're taking another mobility talent that is generally even better than Gust of Wind is at the moment. That's really pathetic when what Druids are getting as their only reasonable option is inferior to something that's not even good enough for Shaman to take.

The Rejuv argument as being massive utility is one of the most overstated strawman arguments of all time. Sure, Druids can instant cast Rejuv, but when you really look at it - so what? Every other spec has plenty of instant cast abilities they can use while moving. For example, Shaman have Riptide, HST, Cloudburst, etc., etc. Yes, you can't spam them, but most often movement in a raid isn't more than a couple of GCDs at a time. And, for the longer movement? Shaman are more mobile than Druids in that situation, because they can just SWG it. On a long movement phase, like say the bridge on Imonar as an example, Druid throughput is mediocre at best if you can't hard cast Wild Growth, and takes a big hit if you can't get 3 people standing in your Efflo, whereas a Shaman can probably just SWG and CH spam during any sustained movement on top of being able to use their raid CD with no channel and no need to be stationary. If all you're doing is spamming Rejuv, you're only doing like 50% or less of your potential healing, on top of burning through mana relative to efficiency at an excessive rate.

Druid mobility toolkit with Tiger's Lust instead of Displacer Beast and no mobile Tranq is at minimum inferior to Shaman and Monk mobility, at least unless they also remove SWG/Gust of Wind and Roll. It's kind of trash when you're only the 3rd best at your niche when this expansion is supposed to be about more clearly defining roles. Is the RDruid role to be mediocre at everything?

[Deleted]

Druid mobility toolkit with Tiger's Lust instead of Displacer Beast and no mobile Tranq is at minimum inferior to Shaman and Monk mobility, at least unless they also remove SWG/Gust of Wind and Roll. It's kind of trash when you're only the 3rd best at your niche when this expansion is supposed to be about more clearly defining roles. Is the RDruid role to be mediocre at everything?

I just totally agree with you here. Its just so sad to see shamans getting all the mobility (just also think about us loosing Stampeding Roar, vs. them getting the Windrush Totem). There will be no way you would really bring a Druid over a Shaman in any case, simply because it wont make any sense. Spiritwalkers Grace is so powerful, and it has almost no CD. We really deserve to keep Displacer Beast, otherwise we will really be in a bad spot.

It's far too soon to start comparing healing toolkits as a basis for driving any argument about spell removal in BFA, especially bringing up Gust of Wind when talent rows aren't final (all the while ignoring that Resto Shamans aren't even taking Gust of Wind most of the time currently in PVE).

All this hyberbole over Displacer Beast as if the boon of Resto Druid mobility doesn't come from instant cast Rejuv and instead comes from its movement spells.

I wanna see you spamming Rejuv all the time and not caring about mobility without being oom in about a minute anytime soon, looking forward to it!

And because the talent rows arent final its the perfect time now to already have concernes. When we dont use our voices - so what? Then druids will get fucked over again. And we already will see pushbacks in BfA due to standing Tranq again, and so on. Those arguments are all perfectly valid and it just makes no sense to take Displacer Beast away from us, but do not cut into other classes mobility at all (not that i want that. I love the mobility we have right now).

[Deleted]

Druid mobility toolkit with Tiger's Lust instead of Displacer Beast and no mobile Tranq is at minimum inferior to Shaman and Monk mobility, at least unless they also remove SWG/Gust of Wind and Roll. It's kind of trash when you're only the 3rd best at your niche when this expansion is supposed to be about more clearly defining roles. Is the RDruid role to be mediocre at everything?

I just totally agree with you here. Its just so sad to see shamans getting all the mobility (just also think about us loosing Stampeding Roar, vs. them getting the Windrush Totem). There will be no way you would really bring a Druid over a Shaman in any case, simply because it wont make any sense. Spiritwalkers Grace is so powerful, and it has almost no CD. We really deserve to keep Displacer Beast, otherwise we will really be in a bad spot.

It's far too soon to start comparing healing toolkits as a basis for driving any argument about spell removal in BFA, especially bringing up Gust of Wind when talent rows aren't final (all the while ignoring that Resto Shamans aren't even taking Gust of Wind most of the time currently in PVE).

All this hyberbole over Displacer Beast as if the boon of Resto Druid mobility doesn't come from instant cast Rejuv and instead comes from its movement spells.

I wanna see you spamming Rejuv all the time and not caring about mobility without being oom in about a minute anytime soon, looking forward to it!

And because the talent rows arent final its the perfect time now to already have concernes. When we dont use our voices - so what? Then druids will get fucked over again. And we already will see pushbacks in BfA due to standing Tranq again, and so on. Those arguments are all perfectly valid and it just makes no sense to take Displacer Beast away from us, but do not cut into other classes mobility at all (not that i want that. I love the mobility we have right now).

I dont want all of these things removed but its not balanced in the slighest. I also do not want every class to be the exact same and have the same kit, but in reality when abilities like DB, Blink, SWG, Roll/Transcendance exist, they are creating the meta for many fights. Raid encounters are of course "balanced" without taking these abilities into consideration, but the value of having an extra ability to use if you fuck up dealing with the mechanic regularly is just broken.
These days it's also more about making sure your movement cd is not on cd when you have to dodge some stuff, while other more immobile classes like pala/dk/priest/warlock actually have to deal with the mechanics - by actually moving to avoid them, if that makes sense?

And to answer your question, it's not because I personally want mobility cut back. I just think that it should be one or the other, they're mutually exclusive at each end of the spectrum. Being able to do your rotation while moving (to some degree at least) is awesome. Half of the classes having blinks and disengages, while the other half doesn't, is just very boring and creates an environment where you feel held back if you do not have these abilities yourself. Surely you must agree that blinks as well as cloak/immunities make other classes feel inferior in most situations in the game?

But right now, i dont see any class really having struggles when it comes to not having movement abilities. Yes, Displacer Beast is more "comfortable" than my priest's feathers. But in general, i don't really care that much. Priest has other strengths, and sometimes the Angelic Feather saved me in situations where Displacer Beast just sucked (for instance when it bugged and i almost didnt blink at all). So i don't really see a huge balance problem here. Things that are much more out of balance are deff cds a class has. Playing a rouge? Well, you have an awesome life. Playing a shaman? Well.. you can ankh if you die!

The only class i could think of would be warlocks, but they got burning rush. Warriors? Charge, Jump. Paladins do struggle a bit since they only got their horses - but even those will be more useful if we loose Displacer Beast, since TigersDash is so lackluster. Well DKs aren't the most mobile class. They could definitely use some help. But in general? Its just not fair to cut back when it comes to druid mobility - the class that should be known for having mobility - but not other classes ones.

[Vaidenn]

Well that's a dead talent then.

Good thing Wild Charge is superior to it anyways. Though they might remove that too since it copies Charge/Disengage/Shadowstep.

Disengage is not like Charge or Shadowstep.

[Lahis]

Disengage is not like Charge or Shadowstep.

Wild Charge funtions differently for each form.

Boomkin gets Disengage.
Bear gets Charge.
Cat gets Shadowstep.
Caster form gets reverse Life-Grip.
Stag form gets long leap forward.

All abilities copied from other classes.

[huth]

On the other hand, it also fits well into the whole Druid formchanging thing.

[Mazzeric]

Druid mobility toolkit with Tiger's Lust instead of Displacer Beast and no mobile Tranq is at minimum inferior to Shaman and Monk mobility, at least unless they also remove SWG/Gust of Wind and Roll. It's kind of trash when you're only the 3rd best at your niche when this expansion is supposed to be about more clearly defining roles. Is the RDruid role to be mediocre at everything?

Nah, it's on Holy Priest to be mediocre at everything.

Seriously though, it's probably true that Druid is already inferior to both Shaman and Monk in terms of mobility, in the current patch. I just don't agree that a change to Displacer Beast really puts you that much more behind them. Or at least not worth a "sky is falling" reaction especially when things aren't final. However, I also think casting while moving is an unhealthy ability for the game for Shaman to have, and especially on such a short cooldown when talented since it allows them to cover pretty much every fight's movement requirements without any downside. It will be interesting to see if they touch it.

The strongest Resto Druid niche is survivability now, not mobility, I would say. And it will continue into BFA assuming no changes to Bear Form or its relative strength in PVE post-stat squish.

[Tiberria]

Nah, it's on Holy Priest to be mediocre at everything.

Seriously though, it's probably true that Druid is already inferior to both Shaman and Monk in terms of mobility, in the current patch. I just don't agree that a change to Displacer Beast really puts you that much more behind them. Or at least not worth a "sky is falling" reaction especially when things aren't final. However, I also think casting while moving is an unhealthy ability for the game for Shaman to have, and especially on such a short cooldown when talented since it allows them to cover pretty much every fight's movement requirements without any downside. It will be interesting to see if they touch it.

The strongest Resto Druid niche is survivability now, not mobility, I would say. And it will continue into BFA assuming no changes to Bear Form or its relative strength in PVE post-stat squish.

We can easily debunk the notion that Resto Druid has a "survivability niche" in raiding, now that WCL has survivability stats available.

Across all bosses, and based on the top 25% of the player base, Resto Druids are actually #4 out of 6 specs in terms of staying alive across kills and progression wipes. Regardless of the perception, the numbers clearly put Druids middle of the pack at best at survivability currently - so nope, that's not a niche either.