Void elves: The most uninspired race in wow

[Melsiren]

... but in this case it doesn't matter that part of the Shattered Sun was Alliance aligned.

What part? The Shattered Sun Offensive was Aldor, Scryers, Blood Knights and Velen.

Unless you think the actions of Velen, gives the Alliance credit. But it's funny when you say this and then argue that Night elf spies =/= Alliance spies.

[The Iron Fist]

Correcting you on lore is not misdirecting, nor is pointing out obvious flaws in your lines of logic regarding this topic you return to again and again.

You've corrected me on absolutely nothing, ever. I've never seen anyone on these forums with more flawed logic and headcanon than you, and thats saying something. I mean look at the post above yours pointing out all the headcanon like trying to justify why the actions of Garithos and his followers (a small group) against Kael'thas (the betrayer of his own people) is worse than the Horde being allied to the Amani Trolls, burning Quel'thalas, sieging Silvermoon, being allied the Humans for thousands of years, making Dalaran together. Face it - the Blood Elves were shoehorned into the Horde for gameplay reasons (Horde population) not for the lore because it isn't justifiable which is why the High Elf subject still isn't dead and part of the reason Void Elves exist.

[Jerakal]

Orcs, the most uninspired race in Warcraft.

[Deleted]

I think what he's trying to say is.

"How can there be few of them if I see them everywhere."

Yeah, pretty much this. Blizzard's constant inconsistency between what they say and what they show is ridiculous.

Void Elves are just a lore abomination. Anyone who cares about lore in this game should be very worried with the direction Allied Races and the impact on the lore they will have. I have a bad feeling, as evidenced by Void Elves, that there is going to be a lot of shoehorning.

Myeah, agreed. Allied Races were rushed. Nightborne, Highmountain and Lightforged just got lucky that they had pre-existing content. Void Elves had no such luck and that's why they feel shoehorned in. But the reality is that all four got the exact same treatment in terms of amount of work done on them specifically to make them playable.

Two of them should've just been cosmetic options, one of them had their appearance butchered and their story shoehorned into a faction, and one of them is pulled out of nowhere at the last minute. If this is how Blizzard is going to do Allied Races, I prefer they'd just stop. The whole Void Elf thing signals a complete lack of respect for their own lore, and frankly I've arrived at a point where I just don't care anymore about trying to glue the broken pieces of Warcraft lore together.

We're probably not seeing Zandalari and Dark Irons yet because they were very likely planned to be released before Allied Races were even a concept, which is why it looks better for their lore and development.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Headcanon.

oh boy this level of argument.

You're right, the Alliance was trying to be friends by sending in a spy and a small invasion force.

Headcanon.

Ehm, no, that was Varimathras. Should Silvermoon ally with the Burning Legion next? Oh, wait, they did.

Ehm, no, that was Varimathras. Should Silvermoon ally with the Burning Legion next? Oh, wait, they did.
Varimathras under the direction of, you guessed it, the leader of the Forsaken.

Silvermoon never joined the Burning legion, but I see where you are trying to take this.

... They are literally the same effin' humans. Djeezes, what is wrong with you?

Once again you are missing the point, the Forsaken didn't imprison the blood elves and try to kill them.

Anvilward was communicating with the night elves and their observations of the arcane sanctums, totally there for ambassador work. Seriously you need a bit of questing to kick-start your memory.

Sure, because a nature-loving druid who has never set foot on the Eastern Kingdom introducing a race of undead creatures he has never seen before to a Warchief who has fled to another continent from these exact same people's concentration camps makes perfect sense, right?

So are you saying reading is too hard? Or that you just call story-lines you don't like "lollore?" Hammul vouched for the Forsaken because he saw potential in them.

Oh, right, so in this case it matters that part of Dalaran was Alliance aligned ...

When Alliance troops are being teleported in, the leader of the Kirin'tor is Alliance aligned, and the Silver Covenant is too of course it matters, and of course the Blood elves blame them for it. I'm not sure what point you could even try to make here.

... but in this case it doesn't matter that part of the Shattered Sun was Alliance aligned.

Those are some hilarious double standards.

The Aldor and Scryers were neither Alliance or Horde, before trying to make an argument, research your own point so it doesn't blow up in your face.

Headcanon.

I suggest reading, like, actually reading. The elves needed the humans armies to fight the trolls Magic was the bargaining chip.

This is found in Chronicle Volume one.

Not even headcanon. Just pure bullshit. They formed the Council of Tirisfall because demons happened.

The wizards's overuse of magic with no proper protection or regulation, though, acted as a beacon for the Burning Legion, luring them back to Azeroth. Demons slipped through the gaps in reality, terrorizing the locals until the ruling Magocrats were forced to turn to the elves for aid. High Elf wizards quickly realized what had happened and warned that humanity would have to give up magic to subdue the threat completely. The Magocrats, unwilling to sacrifice their power, instead proposed selecting a mortal champion to protect them from the Legion. This Guardian would have access to all their might, and would form a secret defense for the world. The elves agreed and, through the newly formed Order of Tirisfal, provided guidance in the selection. At the same time, the Magocrats sent some of their number to research and catalog all human magic. These wizards became the Kirin Tor.


found in chronicle volume one.

Quel'Thalas was, at best, a reluctant member of the Alliance.[15] In the wake of the Second War, humanity began to distance itself from Quel'Thalas,[16] and in turn the high elves came to view the deteriorating Alliance with increasing coldness.[16] King Anasterian himself felt betrayed by the Alliance's retreat to Lordaeron during the war, which left the elves to deal with the rampaging Amani trolls alone. Anasterian claimed that the Alliance had abandoned Quel'Thalas in its darkest hour, and while not all of the high elves agreed with him, enough did.[14] The tension eventually came to head when King Anasterian withdrew his support from the Alliance entirely. The official stance was that the humans' poor leadership resulted in the burning of Eversong Woods (even though Terenas reminded him of the many humans who gave their lives to protect Quel'Thalas); in addition, with Lothar dead and the Horde defeated, Anasterian believed that the debt to Thoradin and his descendants was repaid. With few exceptions - including some elven priests and sorceresses, as well as Anasterian's son and heir, Prince Kael'thas, a member of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran - the majority of the elven race shut themselves inside their enchanted kingdom.

found in the warcraft encyclopedia.

That's friggin' hilarious coming from someone who gets one thing after the other wrong.

So you're one of those Facts <Feelings guy, how annoying.

Headcanon. Also, human-elf alliance going back literal millennia.

Quel'Thalas was, at best, a reluctant member of the Alliance.[15]
https://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_W...e_Visual_Guide

Anasterian claimed that the Alliance had abandoned Quel'Thalas in its darkest hour, and while not all of the high elves agreed with him, enough did.[14] The tension eventually came to head when King Anasterian withdrew his support from the Alliance entirely. The official stance was that the humans' poor leadership resulted in the burning of Eversong Woods (even though Terenas reminded him of the many humans who gave their lives to protect Quel'Thalas); in addition, with Lothar dead and the Horde defeated, Anasterian believed that the debt to Thoradin and his descendants was repaid. With few exceptions - including some elven priests and sorceresses, as well as Anasterian's son and heir, Prince Kael'thas, a member of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran - the majority of the elven race shut themselves inside their enchanted kingdom.

Congratulations on actually making me post things to teach you what you should have already known.

They didn't join the war because they didn't take the Scourge seriously. Nobody did, until it was too late.

So, yeah, headcanon once more.

They did the same with orcs, and even then only sent token aid.


The only headcanon here is your willfull ignorance of canon material because it hurts your high elf fetish.

Nobody made that argument, but hey.

It boils down to seeing the Minority of the thasslassian elves being buddies with humans that you get this entire "fast friends' Delusion.

Ah, well, in that case the Alliance should just burn down Quel'Thalas, since Kael'Thas allying with Kil'Jaiden clearly means Silvermoon is still in league with the Burning Legion and cannot be trusted, right?

Don't give yourself whiplash.

Kaelthas was already disowned by the time he tried to summon Kil'jaden so your argument doesn't work on that front.


TLDR, your grasp on lore is left wanting.

Since I don't except any other answer other than "No you're wrong, or "The lore is wrong," I've given you your response to copy paste.

Headcanon.

[Dagoth Ur]

Headcanon.

It's not headcanon. It's pretty clearly explained in among first quests near Silvermoon.

Ehm, no, that was Varimathras. Should Silvermoon ally with the Burning Legion next? Oh, wait, they did.

Lol. By that time Varimathras was working for Sylvanas. She even made him kill Balnazzar to prove his loyalty just before ordering him to kill Garithos.

[Deleted]

What part? The Shattered Sun Offensive was Aldor, Scryers, Blood Knights and Velen.

And player characters acting at the behest of their respective faction.

Unless you think the actions of Velen, gives the Alliance credit.

And you think it does not? You would trust a guy to save your entire race but wouldn't trust his judgement of who to ally with?

But it's funny when you say this and then argue that Night elf spies =/= Alliance spies.

Yeah, because that's not what I said. The Night Elves spying doesn't make sense if you only consider the Blood Elf starting experience, but it makes perfect sense when you also consider what happened on the Azuremyst Isles in the Draenei starting experience. That was the context of the comment.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You've corrected me on absolutely nothing, ever. I've never seen anyone on these forums with more flawed logic and headcanon than you, and thats saying something. I mean look at the post above yours pointing out all the headcanon like trying to justify why the actions of Garithos and his followers (a small group) against Kael'thas (the betrayer of his own people) is worse than the Horde being allied to the Amani Trolls, burning Quel'thalas, sieging Silvermoon, being allied the Humans for thousands of years, making Dalaran together. Face it - the Blood Elves were shoehorned into the Horde for gameplay reasons (Horde population) not for the lore because it isn't justifiable which is why the High Elf subject still isn't dead and part of the reason Void Elves exist.

You mean where you tried to argue that high elves and bloodd elves were a different race? Where you tried to argue High elves had a large population? Where you tried to say blood elves on average siphoned fel? Or was that last one someone else, the arguments blend together after some time.

You have consistently done nothing but scream headcanon and flawed logic at me, but yet you never actually have disproved a single canon fact I brought up. Who's using headcanon here?

The Alliance has consistently proven themselves fickle allies at best to the Thasslasian elves, duplicitous enemies at most times. Combined with their reluctance being in the Alliance in the first place, and the actions of the faction down the line, their reasoning for joining the Horde is sound lore-wise, regardless of your hatred for it. Just because some people can't handle it doesn't make it non-justifiable.

[Deleted]

Lol. By that time Varimathras was working for Sylvanas. She even made him kill Balnazzar to prove his loyalty just before ordering him to kill Garithos.

And as we know Sylvanas is human, right?

The argument made was that the human Forsaken killed Garithos. They didn't.

[Jervaise]

Well, I'm a Horde player. Never understood the hype or the hate about void elves. I'm not even going to bother unlocking them.

However,

BFA is not going to be about faction war. We'll very soon see that it's all about old gods, void lords, and xalatath/nzoth doing some really cool story twists.

The new dilemma between shadow and light is quite cool in my opinion. Check the following from Warcraft Chronicles:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Cosmic_forces



So, I think void elves will have both their place and value in the story to come.

[The Iron Fist]

inb4 "But you can already be a High Elf. Blood Elves ARE High Elves."

inb4 "Play a Blood Elf DK if you want a blue eyed High Elf"

inb4 "You got your High Elves. Void Elves are High Elves. Stop complaining!"

inb4 "Statistically impossible. After doing calculations, I have determined that there are only -4 High Elves left in all of Azeroth. It is literally, literally, LITERALLY impossible for Blizzard to just pull more out of their !@# because Azeroth is a real place that exists and demographics can't be made up like that. There are government sanctioned laws in place that prevent Blizzard writers from every finding a way to increase the number of high elves in World of Warcraft, and if they break those sacred laws, they'll all be thrown in Guantanamo Bay. They. Just. Can't. Do. It."

[Dagoth Ur]

And as we know Sylvanas is human, right?

The argument made was that the human Forsaken killed Garithos. They didn't.

Anything Sylvanas does represents Forsaken since she's their leader. In that situation Varimatharas was just a tool, Sylvanas ordered the kill = it's Forsaken kill.

In the post I quoted you tried to twist it like Garithos kill somehow belonged to the Burning Legion just because Varimathras was a demon working for Forsaken.

[Verdugo]

inb4 "But you can already be a High Elf. Blood Elves ARE High Elves."

inb4 "Play a Blood Elf DK if you want a blue eyed High Elf"

inb4 "You got your High Elves. Void Elves are High Elves. Stop complaining!"

inb4 "Statistically impossible. After doing calculations, I have determined that there are only -4 High Elves left in all of Azeroth. It is literally, literally, LITERALLY impossible for Blizzard to just pull more out of their !@# because Azeroth is a real place that exists and demographics can't be made up like that. There are government sanctioned laws in place that prevent Blizzard writers from every finding a way to increase the number of high elves in World of Warcraft, and if they break those sacred laws, they'll all be thrown in Guantanamo Bay. They. Just. Can't. Do. It."

You cant use "inb4" if you are too late.

[Deleted]

Once again you are missing the point, the Forsaken didn't imprison the blood elves and try to kill them.

Because being undead Lordaeron humans totally makes them not Lordaeron humans, who the High Elves despise.

Do you seriously not see the contradiction?

Hammul vouched for the Forsaken because he saw potential in them.

Yeah, he did, and I happen to think that's a rubbish piece of writing.

Clearly we have different standards.

This is found in Chronicle Volume one.

Honestly, I've not read Chronicles, and it's of little consequence to how the story was written before Chronicles released.

Quel'Thalas was, at best, a reluctant member of the Alliance.[15]
https://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_W...e_Visual_Guide

Anasterian claimed that the Alliance had abandoned Quel'Thalas in its darkest hour, and while not all of the high elves agreed with him, enough did.[14] The tension eventually came to head when King Anasterian withdrew his support from the Alliance entirely. The official stance was that the humans' poor leadership resulted in the burning of Eversong Woods (even though Terenas reminded him of the many humans who gave their lives to protect Quel'Thalas); in addition, with Lothar dead and the Horde defeated, Anasterian believed that the debt to Thoradin and his descendants was repaid. With few exceptions - including some elven priests and sorceresses, as well as Anasterian's son and heir, Prince Kael'thas, a member of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran - the majority of the elven race shut themselves inside their enchanted kingdom.

"But hey, let's ally ourself with the same damn humans now that they're undead!"

Seriously?

Kaelthas was already disowned by the time he tried to summon Kil'jaden so your argument doesn't work on that front.

And most of Lordaeron was dead when Garithos assumed command, which he could only do by virtue of every conceivable other claimant being dead or in hiding. But hey, sure, let's pretend Garithos was seriously the heir to the Alliance of Lordaeron and its moral compass.

- - - Updated - - -

Anything Sylvanas does represents Forsaken since she's their leader. In that situation Varimatharas was just a tool, Sylvanas ordered the kill = it's Forsaken kill.

"Lordaeron Humans are bad!"
*Sylvanas appears*
"Lordaeron Humans are now good!"

Awesome writing.

In the post I quoted you tried to twist it like Garithos kill somehow belonged to the Burning Legion just because Varimathras was a demon working for Forsaken.

No, I tried to show the absurdity of that type of reasoning.

[Wildberry]

Then you don't know what headcanon is evidently.

He typically has citations for his arguments. Putting a faction-oriented spin on something isn't headcanon, it's spin. Those are two different things.

When you make a good point, instead of address it he misdirects.

[Citation Needed]

You can't have dialogue with him. Everything is a debate.

That's typically the way to resolve disagreements on forums, is it not?

[Deleted]

Void Elves are re-coloured Blood Elves for Alliance
Nightborne are re-coloured Night Elves for the Horde.

[Dagoth Ur]

"Lordaeron Humans are bad!"
*Sylvanas appears*
"Lordaeron Humans are now good!"

In time of War3 there were two seperate groups of ex-Lordaeron people. Dead one were Forsaken and living one were with Garithos. So they're not exactly the same people.

No, I tried to show the absurdity of that type of reasoning.

Well it's not how it reads. It sounded like you're giving credit for Garithos' death exclusively to Varimathras, but in reality Sylvanas ordered the execution.

[mickybrighteyes]

As for the Forsaken being friendly, did we forget that their first few years in the Horde were ultimately nothing but blackmail by Sylvanas? I mean, Lor'themar may as well have been a prison-b***h to the Banshee-Queen.

Maybe if you want to spin it that way. but the undercity was used as a hammer to squash forces opposed to the horde in the region and that wasn't by the request of the Undercity.

[Deleted]

He typically has citations for his arguments. Putting a faction-oriented spin on something isn't headcanon, it's spin. Those are two different things.

Headcanon, spin, whatever. The result is the same. The argument being made is:

"High Elves are xenophobes. It makes perfect sense for xenophobes to ally with the humans they hate, the orcs who burned their forests and trolls as all of them are their ancestral enemy ... because they're openminded xenophobes. All of this is justified because the humans who did not betray them are obviously bad."

The headcanon/spin doesn't so much lie in any kind of faction bias. It lies in trying to justify two utterly contradictory points of view by selectively picking pieces of history and characterisations.

Either High Elves are overwhelmingly xenophobes or they're not. Either they hate the humans of Lordaeron or they don't. Trying to do both at the same time is insane.

After more than a decade, the politics of the various types of High Elves still don't make sense, and all Blizzard has done is pile contrived incident upon incident onto Blood/High Elf lore in an effort to just bury the root cause under more nonsense so people would forget. And each time they do it, they make the lore of Quel'Danas and everything related to it worse. Now Void Elves are the latest complication in a story that just doesn't make sense, with Blood Elf leaders characterised in a completely absurd way.

[Obelisk Kai]

Headcanon, spin, whatever. The result is the same. The argument being made is:

"High Elves are xenophobes. It makes perfect sense for xenophobes to ally with the humans they hate, the orcs who burned their forests and trolls as all of them are their ancestral enemy ... because they're openminded xenophobes. All of this is justified because the humans who did not betray them are obviously bad."

The headcanon/spin doesn't so much lie in any kind of faction bias. It lies in trying to justify two utterly contradictory points of view by selectively picking pieces of history and characterisations.

Either High Elves are overwhelmingly xenophobes or they're not. Either they hate the humans of Lordaeron or they don't. Trying to do both at the same time is insane.

After more than a decade, the politics of the various types of High Elves still don't make sense, and all Blizzard has done is pile contrived incident upon incident onto Blood/High Elf lore in an effort to just bury the root cause under more nonsense so people would forget. And each time they do it, they make the lore of Quel'Danas and everything related to it worse. Now Void Elves are the latest complication in a story that just doesn't make sense, with Blood Elf leaders characterised in a completely absurd way.

I can easily resolve this for you.

The High Elves were not overwhelmingly xenophobic but they were isolationist and arrogant. They had to be prodded into supporting the Alliance of Lordaeron during the second war, only committed all of their resources during the height of the Orc invasion and finally withdrew at the first opportunity back into their isolationism.

The High Elven elements within the Alliance today are the same small band of High Elves who were more outward looking than their compatriots, interested in the world and they had a genuine interest not only in the Alliance they fought beside but in the people they met to. These individuals developed a loyalty to the Alliance the vast majority of their countrymen did not.

The High Elves' arrogance, something they had maintained for ten thousand years, was shattered by the Scourge invasion led by a Human prince. Their civilization was in ruins, the vast majority of their people dead, and they themselves were desperate to sate an addiction that was slowly killing them all.

In all likelihood, this would have shattered their previous political positions. Isolationism and arrogance were out, they were a humbled people driven by the frenzy of despair, a lust for revenge and a desperation for survival.

At first they reached out to their usual allies, the Alliance, but Garithos's betrayal led to a rupture between the Blood Elves and the Alliance that has not been repaired to this day.

The forces with Kael then allied with Illidan, but he and his followers betrayed everyone by eventually siding with the Burning Legion.

Left alone on Azeroth, the remaining people of Quel'thalas had few options. The Scourge was still rampant near by. The Forest Trolls were preparing an offensive to finally retake their lands from the now devastated Elven civilization. Lor'themar as regent NEEDED allies. They could not indulge their penchant for isolationism any longer.

In practical terms he had only one option, as the Alliance had failed them or outright betrayed them on multiple occasions from the Elven perspective. He reached out to the leader of the Forsaken and through her, petitioned to join the Horde.

Yes, DECADES ago the Elves had warred with the Horde. But a Human Prince had destroyed their Kingdom only a few short years before. There were probably old animosities between the Elves and the Orcs, but that's just it. They were OLD. Right now there were more pressing threats and they needed each other.

Like the Forsaken, the Blood Elves entered into an alliance of convenience with the Horde. But unlike their previous interactions with the Alliance, where they could still behave as haughtily and superior as they liked, this time they would have to earn their keep. Besides, isolationism has probably lost it's lustre given the fate that befell Quel'thalas anyway.

So, forced by necessity, by a profound societal trauma the likes of which none of us can even conceive, the Blood Elves have worked with the Horde. At first it was just to use them to get to Outland and join Kael, but that dream died when Kael betrayed them. That was a bigger moment than many of us knew at the time. Lor'themar knew that the alliance with the Horde was not just a temporary convenience designed to facilitate their journey to Outland. That would now never happen.

Instead, the alliance with the Horde was all they had.

They worked with the Horde as best they could until the Garrosh era, when the behaviour of the Orc supremacist Warchief nearly led to a rapprochement between them and the Alliance only for the Dalaran incident to close all possible roads out of the Horde.

Remember what Rommath said to Lor'themar, that he would make a fine Warchief? And Lor'themar saying it might come to that?

This was the moment that the Blood Elves's disgust with the Alliance crystallised. Yes, they were furious with Garrosh and his actions, but their path forward lay in getting rid of him and reforming the Horde rather than leaving it to join the Alliance.

Since that time, the Blood Elves have displayed increasing loyalty to the Horde as a faction. Lor'themar's enthusiastic support for the Horde on the isle of thunder or Liadrin's evangelizing of the faction to the Nightborne. The Blood Elven leadership has drunk deep of the red koolaid at this point.

And so we come to the Nightborne, the Blood Elves' best friends. Both are now in the Horde, anchoring each other to the faction even more. Both have shed the isolationism that previously defined them. Not only that, but the Blood Elves have now been working with the Orcs, Trolls, Tauren and the rest of the Horde for many, many years. The old animosities have to fade as the years roll by under those circumstances.

The only way you can characterise the progression of the Blood Elven story in WoW as absurd is to somehow believe that every character or race is immutable, and that no matter what trauma or disaster they suffer they will always behave the exact way.

The Blood Elves went through an unimaginable disaster, and their story has been shaped by the aftermath of that disaster. It changed them fundamentally as a people.