The war is such a stupid thing, when you consider what we should know.

[Trassk]

In the past, the reason for warring factions made sense, over territory, over invasion and protecting land, even over vengeance, and its true that is what the writers of this expansion are trying to push (undercity/teldrassil).

But reading this post on wowpedia about Azeroth, kinda makes you scratch your head and ask, of all the times for a faction war, why or how could this be a thing?

As Azeroth continues to bleed out from the damage the Burning Legion caused, the Alliance and Horde fight over azerite, her crystallized blood that is cropping up across the world and a source of great power. However, the factions are fighting over a dying world, and only Magni understands how desperate the situation is. He provides the heroes of the world with an ancient titan relic called the Heart of Azeroth to gather azerite and save the world.[11]

Azeroth is literally dying right now, and yet the factions just seem to be ignoring this fact. Maybe I could believe in just ignorance, but our characters, who have been venerated as supreme heroes of our factions, have all interacted with Magni, he'd telling us the cold hard facts about azeroth dying and us needing to save her, but instead the factions want to have an incompetent war?

This is exactly what happened at the start of legion, the factions gathered to fight the big threat, they got bitch slapped by the legion and fled, showing how incompetent these factions are when it comes to serious threats, due to their nature of not working again, We already know this war in battle for azeroth won't be won by the factions, but up outside groups lead by people like magni actually saving the planet.

Infact, due to the nature of how this story is presented, we already know the wars pointless, since we know we're be having to focus on saving the planet from dying in the second half anyway, so really the war is just filler.

[Arrashi]

Actually i like idea of killing sum blue boiz for once.

[Trassk]

Actually i like idea of killing sum blue boiz for once.

you do that all the time, why is it different now to any other expansion?

[Nalorakk]

That implies that every character is morally good and without ambitions.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. To me, the story of BfA is far more realistic (i.e. wowee kryptonite is seeping out of the ground let's weaponise it) than if everyone happily held hands and stood up against yet another Big Bad.

[Arrashi]

you do that all the time, why is it different now to any other expansion?

Now its main dish, and not just appetizer.

[Trassk]

That implies that every character is morally good and without ambitions.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. To me, the story of BfA is far more realistic (i.e. wowee kryptonite is seeping out of the ground let's weaponise it) than if everyone happily held hands and stood up against yet another Big Bad.

but thats exactly whats gonna happen anyway. how can it be considered realistic in a situation where the planet is dying, thats not even a conceivable situation.

[Darkeon]

Forced conflict will always feel forced. Especially since most of the "tension" that is present since the last couple expansions are events that were so misunderstood by the two factions that would have been easily cleared by talking - which we had plenty of time to do with all the cooperation that happened.

[Nalorakk]

but thats exactly whats gonna happen anyway.

More than likely, after warfare that becomes considerably more untenable as it continues.

Jumping to the end just because you know it's going to happen doesn't usually make for good storytelling (That being said, going through the rigor of something which may be predictable doesn't also mean it'll be good).

[Karaoke]

In the past, the reason for warring factions made sense, over territory, over invasion and protecting land, even over vengeance, and its true that is what the writers of this expansion are trying to push (undercity/teldrassil).

But reading this post on wowpedia about Azeroth, kinda makes you scratch your head and ask, of all the times for a faction war, why or how could this be a thing?



Azeroth is literally dying right now, and yet the factions just seem to be ignoring this fact. Maybe I could believe in just ignorance, but our characters, who have been venerated as supreme heroes of our factions, have all interacted with Magni, he'd telling us the cold hard facts about azeroth dying and us needing to save her, but instead the factions want to have an incompetent war?

This is exactly what happened at the start of legion, the factions gathered to fight the big threat, they got bitch slapped by the legion and fled, showing how incompetent these factions are when it comes to serious threats, due to their nature of not working again, We already know this war in battle for azeroth won't be won by the factions, but up outside groups lead by people like magni actually saving the planet.

Infact, due to the nature of how this story is presented, we already know the wars pointless, since we know we're be having to focus on saving the planet from dying in the second half anyway, so really the war is just filler.

Really makes you think about the parallels IRL

[Jastall]

That implies that every character is morally good and without ambitions.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. To me, the story of BfA is far more realistic (i.e. wowee kryptonite is seeping out of the ground let's weaponise it) than if everyone happily held hands and stood up against yet another Big Bad.

The only difference is that this time team red and team blue will massacre each other some before holding hands yet again against the big bad, because the faction war by definition can go nowhere and cannot see a victor so we'll always fall back to the big bad doing big bad things before we beat them up for loot.

Plus the reasons are still stupid. There's tons of magic rocks all over Azeroth and both factions already have the means to manufacture magic nukes. What makes Azerite so special, that we should murder each other over it a scant few years after facing armageddon, as the world is literally dying, and knowing full well that N'zoth and co. are just waiting to pick up our pieces for lunch?

[Kithelle]

Now its main dish, and not just appetizer.

Sorry...I don't feel being forced to eat the same meal that I've been eating forever as being interesting.

[iamthedevil]

Some people don't care the planet could die, they just want to milk it. Sounds like real life.

[Nalorakk]

The only difference is that this time team red and team blue will massacre each other some before holding hands yet again against the big bad, because the faction war by definition can go nowhere and cannot see a victor so we'll always fall back to the big bad doing big bad things before we beat them up for loot.

Plus the reasons are still stupid. There's tons of magic rocks all over Azeroth and both factions already have the means to manufacture magic nukes. What makes Azerite so special, that we should murder each other over it a scant few years after facing armageddon, as the world is literally dying, and knowing full well that N'zoth and co. are just waiting to pick up our pieces for lunch?

Yeah, I have no doubt the climax will be pretty unrewarding, because every big bad in wowcraft tends to be. The detail is the stuff I enjoy, and while usually I dislike the 'balancing' of losses/victories between factions, I like the lead into BfA and how there's a lot of details up in the air which are relevant to some large defeats for both factions.

As for Azerite itself, from what we know there's something special about it that makes it better than every other shiny rock we know of.

We as players know about N'zoth and the oncoming disaster, but the people of Azeroth not so much.

[Arrashi]

Sorry...I don't feel being forced to eat the same meal that I've been eating forever as being interesting.

Oh yeah, "World ending threat number 25362" sure seems as more interesting option. What is it this time ? Monarchs of emptiness ? Counts of abyss ?

[Trassk]

Forced conflict will always feel forced. Especially since most of the "tension" that is present since the last couple expansions are events that were so misunderstood by the two factions that would have been easily cleared by talking - which we had plenty of time to do with all the cooperation that happened.

and thats kind of the problem I have with this now. going back to early warcraft days, the setup was simple, there was none of this having fought deathwing, old gods, kil'jaeden, sargeras, the lich king, back when it was grounded in the idea of warring conflict because things weren't hyped up on such a large pedestal.

Now, due to the larger threats blizzard makes, and how they hype up our characters in contrast to the bigger problems faced, it just makes this disconnect from any faction conflict. Coming into legion, they stripped down any seriousness the factions had in the opening act. So we the player follow a much more successful attack separate from the factions. So when we pick up again on the factions in stormheim, I just felt like it was an annoyance after all the shit my character had done up till then, to be ordered around by a faction leader. And once that story was done, it contributed nothing to the larger story of fighting the legion.

I think this is why they didn't include hardly any faction leaders on Argus, only the ones important to its plot, because blizzard just wants to make it clear the factions are idiots and don't contribute to anything to the larger picture.

[Kithelle]

Oh yeah, "World ending threat number 25362" sure seems as more interesting option. What is it this time ? Monarchs of emptiness ? Counts of abyss ?

Better than Orc and Elf encounter 112,382...

[Khaza-R]

Better than Orc and Elf encounter 112,382...

Not really. I would take characters like Garrosh over completely uncompelling loot piñatas like Deathwing, Argus or KJ any day.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Something something climate change, something something Afghanistan.

[Shampro]

The Horde and the Alliance have literally never stopped hating each other, I don't get why people have such a hard time understanding it. The whole Tel/UC thing isn't even the crux of the issue. In this expansion alone Genn pretty much robbed the Forsaken off thier future, as retaliation for Gilneas. The Forsaken aren't just gonna let that be it, not to mention that Lordaeron is basicly part of thier indentity, just as much as the Kalimdor forests is part of the Night Elves.

The Alliance is pushing into Mulgore apperantly, Baine will get into the conflict, and this is only some of the more recent conflicts. Pretty much the whole world won't be the same after this, unless the end of the expansion has Azeroth dying and we have to move to another planet.

The Forsaken are more vengeful than every other race, they're never gonna let go of Lordaeron, The Night Elves will never forget Teldrassil, etc.

The REAL question is how the fuck are they going to make it belivable for the Forsaken and the Night Elves to shrug off this conflict at the end of BFA? Keep in mind that Sylvanas is actually what keeps a lot of the more vile and twisted Forsaken in check, with or without her, it would change literally nothing in Forsaken culture (Or it shouldn't if they don't want to commit character assesination).
The Night Elves? Have you seen how Tyrande acted towards the Nightborne for daring to try and save thier city 10k+ years ago? Imagine how she will act if she belives the Horde are the ones responsible for Teldrassil?

They have thier job quite cut out for them.

inb4 Anduin is so nice, love him please, lets join hands.

[Deleted]

My biggest problem is usually not that the factions are still at each other's throats. It's kind of logical if people that, let's say never heard about anything other than the atrocities the other faction comitted, or witnessed some of them firsthand and never saw anything else after that, keep on hating the other faction and will never be ok with anything else than complete victory over them. Take this together with some cultist plots that stir the fire whenever it dies down and you do have an explanation for faction conflict.
My problem is, that our characters should know better. They saw time and again that while the other faction may sometimes be exactly as the haters say, there's also people there that are different. They have worked together. Why, in all seriousness, does a Draenei Paladin still hold a grudge against _all_ Bloodelves? That's just one example, heck, Trolls and Nightelves work together in the Cenarion Circle and now they just go back to cutting each other down?
Our characters should have the option of nope'ing out of faction conflict. It's completely absurd to suddenly be enemies again for most of them. We need a third faction or the two big ones need to be reduced to what the PvP factions are and PvP needs to be turned into free for all (except in battlegrounds maybe).