do druids even make sense as a horde class anymore

[Halyon]

The OPs first line is "so ive been a tauren druid for a while and im just wondering where i fit in between the plagues, deforestation, etc" and my point is it seems more than a little silly that a druid would justify allying themselves with someone that plaguebombs areas when she can't get her way since that's in no way related to the cycle of life and nature being "harsh, brutal and unforgiving". So it doesn't really make sense for them to go along with the Horde (or Alliance if we're being honest).

Short of flawed game-design, where character choices are made for you (trust me, I have issues with this one), then it is easy to just say "my character is not affiliated with these actions, and only assists with x or y while I go through the motions". I do it with my own druid, demon hunter and hunter. I think it's really boring and tired to keep the whole faction war going over stupid excuses, so to me, I am going through the story as it's presented to me, while the character is just serving as my vessel, but would otherwise not do it.

That doesn't relate all that much to how druidism fits into one faction or the other.

Depending on your values, exemplified in Pathfinder, there are some nasty druid archetypes that you wouldn't normally associate when you say druid. Like a druid that specialized in poisons, literally able to sweat it, while another druid specializes in decay, rot and vermin. All part of nature. Like burning down a field, or laying it barren for a while helps grow new crops later. Cycle of life. Birth, life, death, cycle continues. You can go off it in a generalized sense, or specialize.

[Wildmoon]

so OP that the shade of Xavius was enough to capture him, same shade we defeated as a 5 man group, kek, Mlaf is considered OP because knaak is a fucking terrible writer and "malfurion" its a god damn terrible book

Because being captued by a guy that uses magic designed to counter your own magic in the first place means everything even when you have already defeated that guy many times before right. Even when Cenarius, Ysera ,etc all fell and got corrupted. And Malfurion was OP even in WC3 manual.

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? Hamuul was only the first druid after a 20ish generation lull in druidism for taurens.

Trolls and taurens had been practicing druidic arts and rituals far before Malfurion.

Tauren and Trolls never became Druid before Malfurion. They practiced rudimentary nature magic. That's canon. And it's stated clearly in the low level troll questline that what they practiced before was not really druidism. They just worshiped Loas and the loas gave them power. The events in Cata forced Gonk to teach them druidsm.

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Is it? It's been a few years since I read it, but from what I remember, Malfurion purged the Emerald Dream of the Nightmare, except for one small spec in the Rift where the Old God is supposedly held. He also bound Xavius in that rift. Then, suddenly, there's Nightmare flowing into the world in Val'Sharah and the Emerald Dream is consumed by it yet again. Feels like Stormrage didn't happen.

Of course, I hadn't read the quest text, so maybe it was explained in that. I really should read those...

It's not possible for it not to have happened because Fandral's story was a direct continuation of it.

[Seethe]

That was a silly thing to begin with. This has little to do with that, anyway. Horde assaulting all that is druidism is weird for horde druid players.

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They attacked his wife's tree house, and Ashenvale.

Horde didnt burn down Horde trees, only alliance trees, all is well.

[Nathasil]

If you are a Soldier in a war and your superiors order you to commit acts that are at direct odds with not only your own, but arguably any sane individuals moral....you have two choices: You can fold, give up who you are and pretend obidience is honorable. Or you can stand up for what you believe in.

What you personally consider "heroic" is up to you.

[serendipity11]

[/QUOTE]



Tauren and Trolls never knew Druidism before Malfurion. They practiced rudimentary nature magic. That's canon.
[/QUOTE]

Idk. What else do you call shapeshifters who command nature magic? Cause trolls been doing that for awhile. Cenarious may have invented the term "Druidism" but trolls and their practices which is literally druidism in all but name (Until cataclysm) are much older than he is. Trolls are one of the first sentient life to evolve on azeroth.

[Wildmoon]

Idk. What else do you call shapeshifters who command nature magic? Cause trolls been doing that for awhile. Cenarious may have invented the term "Druidism" but trolls and their practices which is literally druidism in all but name (Until cataclysm) are much older than he is. Trolls are one of the first sentient life to evolve on azeroth.

Shapeshifting is not in and itself druidism. This is one of the most misunderstood part of it. Druidism can be applied in such a way that makes you able to shapeshift. Druidism is all about understanding the magic of the natural world and being to tap into it. The troll women in low level quest in cata described it as "serving all the spirits at once" which practically means you understand the underlying structure of nature. Before that Loas only gave them power. It was not Druidism the art. In fact, most Loas did not agree with Gonk teaching the trolls. They wanted the trolls to continue to serve them as they did.

[ls-]

Idk. What else do you call shapeshifters who command nature magic? Cause trolls been doing that for awhile. Cenarious may have invented the term "Druidism" but trolls and their practices which is literally druidism in all but name (Until cataclysm) are much older than he is. Trolls are one of the first sentient life to evolve on azeroth.

Haruspices and dinomancers o_O

[serendipity11]

Haruspices and dinomancers o_O

About the same difference as a tauren paladin to a human paladin.

[Wildmoon]

About the same difference as a tauren paladin to a human paladin.

Not at all.. Medivh can shapeshift. Mages can polymorph. None of that is druidism.

[ls-]

About the same difference as a tauren paladin to a human paladin.

Well, that's how Blizz went about it in BfA.

Trolls are more into making nature do what they want it to do and bending it, whereas your average dudus are about understand it and being one w/ it. To me personally, it sounds a lot like the difference between dark shamans and shamans. There's some similarities, but they're different.

Let's call them proto-druids

[serendipity11]

Not at all.. Medivh can shapeshift. Mages can polymorph. None of that is druidism.

They also evoke animal spirits that are connected to the emerald dream and use nature magic. Can Medivh or mages do that? didn't think so.

[Wildmoon]

They also evoke animal spirits that are connected to the emerald dream and use nature magic. Can Medivh or mages do that? didn't think so.

Medivh could use nature magic. He understands basic principles of it. You do not become druid by practicing rudimentary form of it. Harvest Witch is also an example.

The chronicle already establishes that Malfurion is the first druid. I don't know why you are trying to argue against canon.

[serendipity11]

Medivh could use nature magic. He understands basic principles of it. You do not become druid by practicing rudimentary form of it. Harvest Witch is also an example.

The chronicle already establishes that Malfurion is the first druid. I don't know why you are trying to argue against canon.

Neither Medivh or harvest witches have access to the emerald dream which is the key component that makes a druid.

Malfurion was the first to be named a druid, but not to have druidic powers. Because technically Ysera, Cenarious, and various wild gods pre-date malfurion. And also Trolls. It also says that in the lore. It just doesn't call them druids. Doesn't make it not functionally the same. In lore most druids have a single totem animal and one shapeshift. Druids of the talon, claw, etc. They can learn more but they specialize in one which is dedicated to a single wild god. Troll Chosen high Priests have the same ability to shapeshift into a form based on the god they evoke and all loa have access to the emerald dream. Most of these priests actually use nature magic (sometimes shadow) instead of holy.

[Lyssander]

after blizzard did a good job making sure we fit in our classes with the class halls in legion.

And this is how you know that this is just a bad troll.

[serendipity11]

No they are not older than Cenarius.

Source?

They are confirmed to be the oldest mortal race on azeroth. Cenarious is the child of a wild god, and Elune.

Freya created the wild gods, Trolls just showed up. The timeline isn't exact. But Freya is supposedly responsible for most mortal life on azeroth so she probably directly or indirectly created trolls too. Likely around the same time. Which would make sense as some wild gods are seen as loa by the trolls. Either way troll worship of Loa most likely began around the rise of their society. And I doubt Elune and Malorne shaked up like 2 seconds after he was created. Cenarious' age has never been stated. But he's certainly younger than his father.

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Because being captued by a guy that uses magic designed to counter your own magic in the first place means everything even when you have already defeated that guy many times before right. Even when Cenarius, Ysera ,etc all fell and got corrupted. And Malfurion was OP even in WC3 manual.

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Tauren and Trolls never knew Druidism before Malfurion. They practiced rudimentary nature magic. That's canon. And it's stated clearly in the low level troll questline that what they practiced before was not really druidism. They just worshiped Loas and the loas gave them power. The events in Cata forced Gonk to teach them druidsm.

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It's not possible for it not to have happened because Fandral's story was a direct continuation of it.

Here we go.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Xarantaur

This npc. Who appears in game. Is proof of tauren learning druidism around 10,000 years ago.

Just to clear the air of any ambiguity. Night elves may have learned first, but tauren shortly thereafter.

I wonder if that NPC is dead now... he was made immortal at the very end of his natural life. Literally at the brink. But the dragon aspects lost their immortality and I'd imagine anyone they blessed with immortality would also lose it. Which means he likely died around the same time as Deathwing. Interesting to think about. Or perhaps despite losing their immortality the bronze gift to him remains. Although that seems unlikely.

[Magistrate]

It just means Malfurion and the Cenarion Circle are becoming a partisan force. We still have our own representation. Allies killing Horde mages and tearing down Horde magical artifices does not mean the Alliance must forgo mages. It just means that Alliance and Horde druids must try to strike a balance between their faction identity and interests and their druid ones--there will, of course, be compromises and hypocrisies.

This could even lead to a better definition of the scope and goals of a Horde branch of druids.

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Medivh could use nature magic. He understands basic principles of it. You do not become druid by practicing rudimentary form of it. Harvest Witch is also an example.

The chronicle already establishes that Malfurion is the first druid. I don't know why you are trying to argue against canon.

I think it might be more intuitive to define a druid as someone who uses nature magic and communication with nature spirits/wild gods to defend, enrich, or heal natural systems (a goal-oriented definition vs. a heuristic one). Because otherwise we're talking distinctions of magical schools, which, as you've shown and some other people in here, doesn't really work because of the complexity (or mess, depending on your views) of WoW representation.

[Traveler Voltin]

Are we back to whining about the tree that no one wanted ever created?

[Ithekro]

I get the feeling we will find out about the troll origins and that they and therefor the elves are all also Titan constructs with the Curse of Flesh.

[Ithekro]

Retcon, no....but add to as more information is added...yes. There is a third book that is not out yet.

Cause not everything is known yet.

[Wildmoon]

Neither Medivh or harvest witches have access to the emerald dream which is the key component that makes a druid.

Malfurion was the first to be named a druid, but not to have druidic powers. Because technically Ysera, Cenarious, and various wild gods pre-date malfurion. And also Trolls. It also says that in the lore. It just doesn't call them druids. Doesn't make it not functionally the same. In lore most druids have a single totem animal and one shapeshift. Druids of the talon, claw, etc. They can learn more but they specialize in one which is dedicated to a single wild god. Troll Chosen high Priests have the same ability to shapeshift into a form based on the god they evoke and all loa have access to the emerald dream. Most of these priests actually use nature magic (sometimes shadow) instead of holy.

Druidism is an art of magic which utilizes mostly nature magic derived from cosmic force of Life. Goldrinn,Aggamaggan and many more Wild Gods are not technically druid because they do not practice and study the art in the same sense mortals do. They are creatures of nature magic by their very nature. Goldrinn for example likely can not turn into a stormcrow.

Cenarius did not name Malfurion the first druid out of no apparent reason. He taught the tauren before he taught Malfurion. None of them became druid. It's obviously the term carries with it a meaning more to it than just being able to use nature magic. The method is an important element of it. It's said by the darkspear trolls themselves that what allowed them to become druids was th teaching of Gonk which happened in Cata. They have been worshipping Loas and given power by them long before that. They still weren't druid by the very reason that they did not practice druidism but Loa-worshipping.

There's also no evidence whatsoever about any troll having walked the ED before Malfurion did. To claim that you can classify the trolls in the ancient time as druid but can't do the same for Medivh is baseless.