Why i Think Legion Was so Well Received by Players...

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I have enjoyed Legion.

• Suramar is the best zone/best story Blizz has ever done.
• M+ is the best new feature since transmog.

Looking forward to BfA.

[Deleted]

And there is more way than those three ways as it should be.

You also said
I highly disagree with this because once again getting endgame gear only doing raiding is dumb.

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Yep and World Quests,Pet Battles and PVP. Really anything someone decides to do at max level because having only one source for endgame gear in a RPG is dumb as hell.

The reward should fit the effort.

You keep mentioning one source where as i mentioned three sources. All three could potentially require some effort. Arguments could be made for more, but world quests dropping mythic raid quality loot is stupid.

If the reward doesnt fit the effort and you can get the same loot from world quests as from mythic raids it takes a lot of the prestige away from actually trying to be better. Its gonna start a downwards spiral.

In RPG's the first mob you meet wont drop the same quality of loot as the last boss in the game.

Your argument is weird

[Lynkeus]

No matter what negative things people say about Legion, I had fun. That is the most important thing for me. I did not have this much fun and did not have these much things to do in expansions before. Its the first time I levelled 6 character and I am levelling the 7th, just because I want to. So, I hope Blizzard would make me feel like this in the next expansion too.

[Jtbrig7390]

You have no probleme with raiding you have problem that you dont get the best rewards for being bad

Ya I'm bad isn't like I did both NM and Heroic raiding (with some mythic) and Mythic+. You got me I am totally bad.

Naw I didn't dodge the question you just don't like the answer given because it blows your argument right out the window.

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The reward should fit the effort.

And that's impossible to do because everyone is at different skill levels. A Elite World quest may be hard to some but easy to others. By ur logic you should get less gear in Mythic Raids because your not a world first guild who cleared it already therefore your effort isn't equal to theirs.

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look at my post, its self explanatory what his "argument" is. Its basicly why i dont get the sparkling gear and the cool new mount when i roll with my face on my keyboard while killing boars, its unfair

And your argument is "I want all the sparking gear to myself fuck anyone who has less skill than me".

[Revamp Man]

Too many world quests, and it becomes repetitive after going through the zone maybe 5-6 times, with no new experience. Got almost a million order resources on my shaman to say for that, but I think i'll run out in maybe a few months of the mission board if i don't keep doing them.
M+ was ok, but fortified / tyrannical has to go. These 2 affixes don't make it fun at all, and heavily gate the progression of most m+ pushers. You don't see anyone pushing during tyrannical, and almost everyone's pages are full of one common affix: Fortified. The invitationals took these 2 affixes away in some cases making it more interesting at least. I also feel that damage the enemies do should not be scaled up evenly with their health, but a slightly less steep curve. Getting 1 shotted by unavoidable mechanics at higher keys makes it annoying.
Raids were ... definitely not properly tested. (Note that i'll be talking about mythic here)
EN - Super *!@%!( easy other than il'gynoth
ToV: Only Helya was probably a problem once your raid learnt to go to markers on Odyn / Guarm
NH: Finally a challenge! But still something wrong if people were only stuck on Star Augur for an immeasurable amount of time before finally first killing it with 2 healers? Also super guardian mark of usol meta while prot warrior in the bin.
ToS: People stuck on maiden before the 180 crazyaf strat by method (it was fun to do too), than stuck on avatar before the nerf (again), than stuck on KJ until the nerf and crazy faction changing (like that guild that faction and race change to goblin for rocket jump)
Atbt: Ok so if the first 9 bosses weren't worth jackall (lets not forget the full ranged comp on coven) and only got stuck on aggramar / argus, before killing aggramar with was it 4 demon hunters for darkness? Maybe you could distribute some of that difficulty elsewhere. Also Argus enrage on mythic seems a little insanely close.
Class Halls: .... Where did they go when you went to argus? Apparently didn't care enough to reach out of azeroth.
Still feels like there are many huge gaps in stories here and there too. Like there was a dreadlord summoned by gul'dan at the broken shore scenario but never seen ever again (possibly hiding still), while all the rest were killing (i don't really recall killing lord Jaraxxus again though)

Overall, probably played it mostly just for mythic raiding / m+. But those 2 have huge areas for improvement for legion. Hopefully they'll improve in BFA
PS: Still wanting 10man raids back, or at least reduce 20 to 15.

i dont realistically see them going lower than 20 with raid buffs coming back

[Deleted]

Legion is probably my favorite expansion to date and I've been playing since 2nd month of vanilla.
At the moment I am taking a break because I'm really enjoying some other games and last raid tier of the exp usually doesn't excite me to much anymore but I already pre-ordered BFA with the hopes it being in line with Legion.

Some things could have done better for me personally but nothing game breaking. Legendary vendor could have come in earlier but I really liked the legendaries overall.
World quests and Mythic + are great additions to the game.
Really liked the Artifacts and the AP. I'm not an OCD person so I don't farm like a mental person. I raid in a mid/low tier Mythic guild so I really don't give a shit about min maxing my stuff.
Its also been the best expansion for alts in my opinion. I actually had to play my alts for once and I really enjoyed that part.

Id rate the expension a good 8.5 out of 10 and really hope BFA can live up to the hopes I have for it (in line with Legion).

[Battlebeard]

As much as I dislike M+, I feel they are huge improvement over CMs, especially after the changes to the reward system. The scaling in CMs was terrible, especially for classes with breakpoints in stats. Having to have separate gear set for CMs wasn't intuitive and was actively against everything you are trying to achieve in WoW. And the whole rush rush, AOE everything down was just wrong. I mean, people are saying defeating bosses is just learning some moves and then performing them. CMs was the same on steroids. No invention needed, just herd (a predetermined) bunch of mobs up and AOE them down while keeping them CCd as much as possible.

You are exaggerating with the AP. Maybe at the very beginning of the xpac with the first paragon system, but unless you were pushing world firsts or needed to have 2 specs on the same level, you could basically ignore the whole system and just roll with what you get by playing the game. Btw, I rerolled twice (first was the beginning of 2017, second was july 2017) and never had any issues with this.

The rest I kinda agree, and I'll add the titanforge system as being close contender for the worst feature of the xpac after legendaries.

Well for CM's, whether you like them or not, it was never necessary to replace them. They could have had M+ AND CM. CM would work as previous expacs and be a completely different thing to M+, with cosmetic rewards for Gold timers etc. Scaled of course. You simply chose it as a difficulty. I see 0 reason they remove CM just because they add M+.

[Deleted]

Well for CM's, whether you like them or not, it was never necessary to replace them. They could have had M+ AND CM. CM would work as previous expacs and be a completely different thing to M+, with cosmetic rewards for Gold timers etc. Scaled of course. You simply chose it as a difficulty. I see 0 reason they remove CM just because they add M+.

So first you complain because world quest don´t reward enough (loot at raid level or 870 gold for one quest...) and then you want CM instead of M+ with only cosmetics as reward? So what do you really want?

M+ has created the most cancerous and awful community there is. Mythic score etc makes me puke and you spend 100 times more time browsing groups with ignorant leaders than you actually play M+. The keysystem (not being able to chose dungeon and difficulty yourself), was also just garbage.

No, the most cancerous are the people who want to join groups while being way below the average group member (or aka the entitled little shits who want to be boosted). There are groups for everyone. My alts do their keys, my main does, keys range from +4 to +20. Every char gets its group within 3-4 minutes. 99% of the groups are nice, the higher the score gets, the more social interactions seem to happen. M+ is really fun.

But you had the same problem getting into raids, so its maybe you.

This is the worst. It replaced Challenge Modes, the best addition this game had, as it was hard scaled content, something we need more of.

Hard scaled content as in "get as much sockets as possible" (the mop version) or as in "lol, our heal has finally blade masters too" (as in Wod version). That hard scaling was abused so hard, people did them in gold time while boosting 2 others, because of broken scaling. Was fun, but i prefer M+

[Battlebeard]

So first you complain because world quest don´t reward enough (loot at raid level or 870 gold for one quest...) and then you want CM instead of M+ with only cosmetics as reward? So what do you really want?


No, the most cancerous are the people who want to join groups while being way below the average group member (or aka the entitled little shits who want to be boosted). There are groups for everyone. My alts do their keys, my main does, keys range from +4 to +20. Every char gets its group within 3-4 minutes. 99% of the groups are nice, the higher the score gets, the more social interactions seem to happen. M+ is really fun.

But you had the same problem getting into raids, so its maybe you.



Hard scaled content as in "get as much sockets as possible" (the mop version) or as in "lol, our heal has finally blade masters too" (as in Wod version). That hard scaling was abused so hard, people did them in gold time while boosting 2 others, because of broken scaling. Was fun, but i prefer M+

Well, what I mean about M+ groups is that people have insane demands that are quite overkill. I have 955ilvl but I struggle to find +10s when I should do +20. 955 is certainly enough for +20 and I have played Rogue for ages, got the skill for it. Still people ONLY see ilvl and take 965++ for it. They rather wait 1 hour to find 965 than take some 955 that can easily do it. This is cancerous... It's not about boosting etc, just overkill.


The nice thing about CM was that you didn't really NEED socketed gear or specific trinkets to do Gold. I did many gold runs with any of my alt that had random gear that got scaled. If i remember correct, gear got scaled to 630 in WoD as an example. Once you got atleast 630ilvl, you were ready to go! No need to gear up further than that or to customize if you had the skill. And no moronic leaders who would value ilvl. Sure sockets etc made it easier, but unless you boosted people or went for server first, it was not needed at all to do gold. And face it, gold was the goal for most people.

But again, whether one likes CM or not or prefer M+, there is no reason to not have both. M+ the way it works now, and a CM mode that obviously only reward cosmetics (title, mount, xmog) like previous expansions.

[Raqubor]

Cataclysm wasnt that bad. It was in mop things went downhill. I like legion world quest alot and all the quests they added for different classes.

MoP was literally the best expasnion, even after Legion... and while Suramar was amazing, 7.2.5 and on weren't that impressive.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Mythic+. This is the worst. It replaced Challenge Modes, the best addition this game had, as it was hard scaled content, something we need more of. AND the dungeons were boring with too much trash and worst of all, M+ has created the most cancerous and awful community there is. Mythic score etc makes me puke and you spend 100 times more time browsing groups with ignorant leaders than you actually play M+. The keysystem (not being able to chose dungeon and difficulty yourself), was also just garbage.

Sounds like you insisted on pugging it with strangers? Why? Are you a glutton for punishment? How you spend your game time is your business, but don't blame the game for your choices. M+ has been great fun for me, my friends, and guild mates. But... we rarely pug. And when we do, it's one or two players joining us, so we still set the tone for the group.

[Deleted]

Ya I'm bad isn't like I did both NM and Heroic raiding (with some mythic) and Mythic+. You got me I am totally bad.

Naw I didn't dodge the question you just don't like the answer given because it blows your argument right out the window.

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And that's impossible to do because everyone is at different skill levels. A Elite World quest may be hard to some but easy to others. By ur logic you should get less gear in Mythic Raids because your not a world first guild who cleared it already therefore your effort isn't equal to theirs.

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And your argument is "I want all the sparking gear to myself fuck anyone who has less skill than me".

You are confusing skill with effort.

If you are killing a mythic boss 2 months after the world first guild you still put in the effort, you just didnt have the skill to kill it as fast as them, but you get the same reward.

If you dont have the skill to kill a mythic raid boss thats fine.

Your argument that you should have the same gear no matter your skill level is a different one that i dont agree with.

Its fine to have multiplce sources of great gear. Like i said crafting should, and could use a bump up. To be able to craft a current tier mythic quality raid piece from crafting - to yourself - that doesnt require 10 million upgrades but just one hard craft? Thats fine. That rewards effort. Its not the same as everyone should be able to get full mythic raid set gear without completing the mythic raid.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Well, what I mean about M+ groups is that people have insane demands that are quite overkill. I have 955ilvl but I struggle to find +10s when I should do +20. 955 is certainly enough for +20 and I have played Rogue for ages, got the skill for it. Still people ONLY see ilvl and take 965++ for it. They rather wait 1 hour to find 965 than take some 955 that can easily do it. This is cancerous... It's not about boosting etc, just overkill.

Somehow you are doing it wrong. I had no problem finding a +10 on my just-leveled 938 druid Tuesday morning before reset, so I can't imagine why you'd have trouble on your 955. Is your IO score that bad? Mine is mediocre, 2303 atm.

[Venziir]

I hated world quest because they were so unpolished and a lot of them were vague. which meant I needed spend a lot of time on wow head. If I need to hunt a giant crocodile name him after his location. Here is an example sea water lock jaw. Where do you think that's located by a large or small body of water. I saw male demons with female demon sounding nice and vice versa it was fucking annoying because it kept breaking my immersion. There was a fucking corrupted tiger named goddamn Vargas how the fuck does that make sense...

I'm not hunting this shit randomly so why the fuck is there no details what so ever... I'm clearly helping someone or something for the vast majority of world quest. Why can't you write clues in the description... I don't understand.

What? That makes no sense. WQ's appeared on the map exactly where they took place, there was no need to hunt random targets in an unspecified zone.

[Otimus]

I think it's because Legion had post-leveling content for everyone.

WoD and Cataclysm barely had it for the hardcore, and for all intents and purposes, didn't for everyone else.

This is also why WOTLK was so loved. This is also why MoP is loved by people who were able to get over that it had pandas in it. Though, MoP indirectly lead to WoD because they put so much love, content, and soul into MoP, and it didn't make much of a financial difference, they probably felt they could do fuck all and still get subs. Glad that WoD sent them the right message. That they fucking can't do that.

The odd one out is BC. Which both had a shitty endgame for most everyone but the hardcore AND is well loved. I think this is because the environment was entirely different, and newness was still thing. Leveling also took a hell of a lot longer. Plus... churn was almost at it's peak. (It reached that in WOTLK).


WoW is pretty much at it's best when it offers something for everyone. All they really need to do now is make it so that someone who's doing whatever they want always feels rewarded in some fashion. They had this (more or less) right in MoP, and messed it up in WoD, half-fixed it, but not really, in Legion. All they really need to do is make it so people who only do LFR don't fucking outgear it before it's even released. I know it'll make the LFR haters mad, but whatever.

[Deleted]

Well, what I mean about M+ groups is that people have insane demands that are quite overkill. I have 955ilvl but I struggle to find +10s when I should do +20. 955 is certainly enough for +20 and I have played Rogue for ages, got the skill for it. Still people ONLY see ilvl and take 965++ for it. They rather wait 1 hour to find 965 than take some 955 that can easily do it. This is cancerous... It's not about boosting etc, just overkill.


The nice thing about CM was that you didn't really NEED socketed gear or specific trinkets to do Gold. I did many gold runs with any of my alt that had random gear that got scaled. If i remember correct, gear got scaled to 630 in WoD as an example. Once you got atleast 630ilvl, you were ready to go! No need to gear up further than that or to customize if you had the skill. And no moronic leaders who would value ilvl. Sure sockets etc made it easier, but unless you boosted people or went for server first, it was not needed at all to do gold. And face it, gold was the goal for most people.

But again, whether one likes CM or not or prefer M+, there is no reason to not have both. M+ the way it works now, and a CM mode that obviously only reward cosmetics (title, mount, xmog) like previous expansions.

But it is the same as now. You struggle to get into +10 with 955 while my 935 mage can get there without a problem. So you are looking for the wrong groups. Same was with CMs. If you didn't had gear and XP, you wouldn't find rush groups. You had to join progress groups.

And for sure a player without any experience should jump straight into +20, because he thinks he plays well. No need to push a key or something like that. Just jump straight into it. Ever tried pushing your own key? You get flooded with applicants on 16+ keys and as a good player you should have a 16+. Just remove any ilevel or score requirement and tell us what happened.

But then again, your score is 0, there is no reported run for your rogue. So you probably don't have a high key yourself.

[Piesor]

Have you tried that? The effort/reward for getting that 'gear outside raids' is orders of magnitude higher than just getting drops from raids. Someone doing a relaxed 2 hour clear of HC will have a much higher chance of getting an upgrade than his friend spamming M+15's for 10 hours a day all week.

Yes, I do my weekly hc Antorus rush every Wednesday. Was talking about mythic hardcore progress raiding though.....

[HuxNeva]

Yes, I do my weekly hc Antorus rush every Wednesday. Was talking about mythic hardcore progress raiding though.....

I love M+ and run that a lot (15-19's mostly) I do weekly clear of Anthorus N and HC. I don't do M. Yet, despite all those M+ runs, nearly all my gear comes out of the raid, and the few pieces of M+ gear I wear, are maybe 1-2% upgrades over Anthorus gear farmed from a hammock. I can't imagine M clearing raiders actually having more than an occasional single piece of TF'ed M+ gear.

[TickTickTick]

TBH no matter how blizz will try, wow will never reach its past glory again. That is because MMORPG is a dying genre and less and less people are enjoying such games and are willing to commit to them. You can even tell by the ammount of whining - the issues people bring arent that big of the issues, people just whine cause they are not enjoying the game as they used to and try to find a scape goat.

Legion did a fine job of milking, but wow is a dying cow now.

[Growel]

Well, there is definitely something to this theory. One of the key elements of enjoying something (including your favorite food) is "novelty". I don't know why, but I know it's true for most people. (Key note: Novelty can come back, at least somewhat, if you haven't experienced something for awhile. Your favorite food tastes better if you haven't had it in months.)