Tinker Class Concept 2018 (long)

[Deleted]

While there are some cool ideas there and clearly lots of effort has put in to it, the tank skills are just ridicilous. Pulls, movement abilities, ranged attacks, heals and slows on just about every skill. I mean look at the other tanks what they have and what not. This spec has it all.

Kiting something? yeah. you can do that alone infinitly. no need for rest of the group
Facetanking something, ie. raid boss? no, you can't do that at all. If you can then you don't need anyone for anything anymore and everyone can just roll one of that spec.
How about pvp? killing something that's ranged and has ability to kite you every time everywhere. Just no.

I have nothing to say about dps or healing specs, because so much is subject to % tuning anyway.

[Teriz]

I didn't read all, sorry, however I can tell you put a lot of effort.

But I did see: "Armor: Mail" and "Ranged DPS". Those are two things this game really need now, so I support this for that reason!

Yeah, my main goal was to create a physical ranged DPS spec that was significantly different than the Hunter class. I think I largely succeeded at that. When you get a chance, check out the talents and tell me what you think.

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Can we get tinkers for Draenei/Forsaken?

For the sake of this write-up, I kept it Gnome and Goblin only. Not enough evidence of Draenei and Forsaken mech/warframe technology to base a class on unfortunately.

[Battlebeard]

Yeah, my main goal was to create a physical ranged DPS spec that was significantly different than the Hunter class. I think I largely succeeded at that. When you get a chance, check out the talents and tell me what you think.

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For the sake of this write-up, I kept it Gnome and Goblin only. Not enough evidence of Draenei and Forsaken mech/warframe technology to base a class on unfortunately.

I had more time so I read through it all, and I am amazed how much effort you put into this. It's the best thread I've seen in a very long time! Very well done! You have a talent for this, and honestly, you should contact Blizzard with your ideas, maybe it can inspire them as well.

All speccs seem interesting and feel really unique from what we have currently. The first thing that hit me was that this class remind me of D.Va in Overwatch, my by far favorite tank in that game, so it could defenitly work very well in WoW as well.

Like someone else said, it would be interesting to move this further than Goblins and Gnomes. Those races are the given ones, but I think Dwarf is a potentional candidate as well, and maybe a few others.

Still at work though, I want to join this discussion further, just need to think about this a bit more first

[Teriz]

While there are some cool ideas there and clearly lots of effort has put in to it, the tank skills are just ridicilous. Pulls, movement abilities, ranged attacks, heals and slows on just about every skill. I mean look at the other tanks what they have and what not. This spec has it all.

Kiting something? yeah. you can do that alone infinitly. no need for rest of the group
Facetanking something, ie. raid boss? no, you can't do that at all. If you can then you don't need anyone for anything anymore and everyone can just roll one of that spec.
How about pvp? killing something that's ranged and has ability to kite you every time everywhere. Just no.

I have nothing to say about dps or healing specs, because so much is subject to % tuning anyway.

Interesting take. Keep in mind that the turrets have a very low rate of fire, and I was considering removing Auto-Cannon from the tank spec. Do you think that would help?

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I had more time so I read through it all, and I am amazed how much effort you put into this. It's the best thread I've seen in a very long time! Very well done! You have a talent for this, and honestly, you should contact Blizzard with your ideas, maybe it can inspire them as well.

All speccs seem interesting and feel really unique from what we have currently. The first thing that hit me was that this class remind me of D.Va in Overwatch, my by far favorite tank in that game, so it could defenitly work very well in WoW as well.

Like someone else said, it would be interesting to move this further than Goblins and Gnomes. Those races are the given ones, but I think Dwarf is a potentional candidate as well, and maybe a few others.

Still at work though, I want to join this discussion further, just need to think about this a bit more first

Cool! Thanks for taking the time to read the entire write-up.

I look forward to seeing what you think because I'm always looking to improve the concept. Additionally, I should have the healing talents complete later today, so if I get that complete feel free to comment on that as well.

[Deleted]

Interesting take. Keep in mind that the turrets have a very low rate of fire, and I was considering removing Auto-Cannon from the tank spec. Do you think that would help?

Auto-Cannon as in arm cannon? I'm afraid still no. Let me try to get little deeper what i thought here. I listed few skills that line up exactly or very close to another tank's versions. Let me know if i got those wrong.

Rocket boost,Roll : In a way to get you in/out of melee range rapidly and commence kiting if required/possible

Skyfall, Infernal strike, Heroic leap: Same as above but with threat and damage generation.

Arm cannon, Heroic throw, Moonfire: on move-threat generator coupled with taunt spamming which tinker has two help you maintain aggro without stopping. This should stay in some form imo. How about GCD, Channeled, castable while moving, very long and low dmg ability? Sort of a bastard prodigy of of Arcane missiles, Soothing mist and throw weapon.

Roc-it turret: Bit hard to evaluate this. Instant cast? slow amount and uptime, own hp pool, and how much they generate aggro and for who, range and duration are huge factors. Nevertheless this kind of tool no one has exactly but all in all VERY powerful tool.

Cluster bomb: Another hard one to compare to anything but when it comes to kiting capabilities closest in mind come Avenger shield

Personal defense matrix: I don't want to go deeper to this ability as it's one of the bigger cd's, but i can't but notice this one has movement speed buff too and the knockback effect. Sounds like specialized kiting cd for me.

Personal transportation system: This is essentially a blink right? Not neccesary at all with rocket boots and skyfall in place; which together are bit much already imo.

Magnetic armor, Gorefiend's grasp Gorefiend's doesn't do damage nor daze. The range nor cd is available so it's bit hard for me to see your whole idea on this.

Magnetic Sawblade / Gravity bomb: Sounds bit similar to usage from Ursol's vortex, except this one has to be timed bit better. That being said on dazed targets it shouldn't be too hard

Engine gunk: Sounds like black ox statue on steroids. Black ox must be picked too as it is atleast at the current, a talent.
Healing shot: No resources needed, assuming instant cast. 1 min cd with possibilty to lower it with scrap. This is way too much
Healing Scan: No info about cd or cast time so i cannot say if i should list it or not.

There's pretty much everyting i noticed for making excellent kiting tools. I'd say it should be cut in half or atleast lose a LOT of effects in certain department. Whether it's slowing,mobility,healing or ranged damage/threat generation capabilities. Currently it seems like master of all trades to me

It's more than possible that i mininterpreted some mechanics together. So please enlighten me, the vision is afterall in YOUR head

Apologies for possible typos or weird expressions. English isn't my first language.

[Thimagryn]

When dark magic isn't dark magic right?



Well yeah because mounts can't enter buildings and you can't fight inside of them. That leaves plenty of room to develop a class around.

Also Engineers only build one mech, the Sky Golem. The other mech that comes out of Reeves isn't even worth bringing up.

We have multiple healers using holy magic, multiple classes using fel. Where is the problem again?

Necromancers use poisons and alchemy where Death Knights do not. Dark magic is too broad of a reason, like saying we have too many sword weilders.

Theres plenty of poison and bone abilities to develop for a caster. Do people really want DKs to have a formal caster spec as a Necro? Not any more than melee Warlocks or melee priests. New class is how Blizzard handles it

[Traveler Voltin]

Since when are all liches nercomancers?

[Ielenia]

I would assume so. Probably looking at a HP boost from pilot to mech form though, similar to Druid forms.

Delicious irony~

Congratulations. You just contradicted yourself.

Really? How? Because, unless I'm mistaken (and feel free to correct me if I am), but isn't your argument that because we see no definitive technology in the human culture and architecture, then that means they're unable to be good engineers to the level of gnomes? To counter that argument, I simply pointed out how the gnomes' architecture and culture shows nothing about magic and spellcasting, yet gnomes are renowned spellcasters.

Rogues don't immolate. Warlocks? Choose any Glaive-based ability.

Care to point out where I said, specifically, that immolate would go to rogues?

Ranged Holy spells based around armor and weaponry.

Priests also wear armor (light armor, but armor nonetheless) and wield weapons.

Warlocks and Demon Hunters. Legion release August 2016.

So you have no source and are going by your wild guesses. Got it.

So every mob in Scholomance is a necromancer? What if they're Apothecary students?

Scholomance is a necromancer school. Of that there is no dispute. If they're students of a necromancy school, it stands to reason they're necromancers. And the fact there's an apothecary teaching alchemy to students indicate that alchemy seems to be an integral part of necromancy studies.

And Shadow magic, which Paladins can't perform.

That is irrelevant to the question. Because that whole point can be rendered moot if a spec dks don't have is given to necromancers. Like, y'know, poison.

Let me know when you find a spell school that Necros can do that DKs cannot.

Poison.

[Kiradyn]

Since when are all liches nercomancers?

Since Necromancer fans became desperate for spec ideas.

[Thimagryn]

Since Necromancer fans became desperate for spec ideas.

Well since Warlocks aren't using Metamorphosis any more and Demon Hunters are using the theme, the old Demo gameplay is up for grabs and easily convertable to a Lichform.

Hell, the mechanic was taken from Guild Wars 2 Necromancers anyways. Warlock players need to learn to let things go.

[Darktbs]

So you're saying that Gelbin and Gazlowe aren't strong lore characters? One is a racial leader, and the other has had a significant role in multiple expansions, and has appeared in Hearthstone and HotS.

Compared to Arthas?Illidan?Chen or Even Kel'thuzad?
Again, just like your logic that a class should be from Wc3(since every other introduced was), a class should have a strong lore figure(like the last 3) the class must also be playable in the Wc3 campaigns(because of them were), the Tinker wasn't playable in the campaigns and doesn't have a strong lore figure in wc3 like the ones i mentioned so they can't be a class.

And i don't see/saw people crying for Mekkatorque to be introduced.Yet i saw every hero realease people asking for Kel'thuzad and his realease was

Lorewise it's because the Engineering profession can't build mechs on the level of Blackfuse, Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, or the Draenei. They can build a rickety copy with no weaponry, but not the real thing.
That's probably wha stopped Blizzard from bringing any new ones to Engineering for almost 6 years now.

No, lorewise nothing stops them from creating this mechs but they aren't for combat for gameplay reasons.

You can literally buy a Lightforged golem from the Army of the Light but you can't fight with it, despite being show what they can do.
This stuff in WoW are made to be cosmetic, and the Tinker/engineering thematic was implemented to be a side thing, not a class.The fact that engineers can do many variations of what the Wc3 did proves that.

So you think that someone who can build a toy airplane can build an actual Jet plane?

Wow.

These PETS are made in the same manner as would any other, the difference is they are smaller.

You know engineers can create the arakkoa golems as pets and they can also cast many spells.Its the gameplay that dictactes that they should be pets but lorewise, they are easily capeable to build a big one.

Then why do the Tinker and Alchemist abilities exist in WoW outside the professions?

Because they fit the class they belong instead of being a profession rip off.

Also, now are you saying that classes have professions abilities?

Uh no. He was implying that since the Apothecary is teaching Necromancers, than he must also be a Necromancer. I flipped that and asked him since a Lich was teaching DKs, does that make the Lich a DK as well?

I guess you missed that one.

Necromancers with poisons > You asked where is a necromancer that can use poisons > Scholomance > The guy teachs Necromancers how to use poisons >Necromancers can use poisons.

Its just a case of a teacher who is specialized on that area teaching others.Thats why we have a Lich teaching on Acherus, because he knows "everything" about frost magic and he teachs then how to use it and adapt to their skill, or how Priest taught warriors to becamo paladins and vice versa

Nothing far from reality.

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Since when are all liches nercomancers?

All Liches in every game/media needs to use Necromancy in order to become a LIch.

While you don't need to be a Necromancer to be a Lich, you do need to use Necromancy to be one and the majority of time a (insert random person name/class) becomes a Necromancer in the process to becoming a Lich or becomes a Necromancer after the transformation.

Alongside the fact that every Lich in WoW is a Necromancer and the idea of a lich always walks side by side with the Necromancy.

[Kiradyn]

Well since Warlocks aren't using Metamorphosis any more and Demon Hunters are using the theme, the old Demo gameplay is up for grabs and easily convertable to a Lichform.

Hell, the mechanic was taken from Guild Wars 2 Necromancers anyways. Warlock players need to learn to let things go.

Hey, you're already stealing warlock and death Knight abilities, you might as well steal an old warlock mechanic as well. It just shows how original the Necromancer isnt.

[Darktbs]

Hey, you're already stealing warlock and death Knight abilities, you might as well steal an old warlock mechanic as well. It just just shows how original the Necromancer isnt.

Oh pls,go use meta and cry me some fel tears

...oh wait.

[Thimagryn]

Hey, you're already stealing warlock and death Knight abilities, you might as well steal an old warlock mechanic as well. It just shows how original the Necromancer isnt.

It's not stealing if they don't own it any more :P

WoW isn't about originality when it's all built around fantasy archetypes.

[Teriz]

Auto-Cannon as in arm cannon? I'm afraid still no. Let me try to get little deeper what i thought here. I listed few skills that line up exactly or very close to another tank's versions. Let me know if i got those wrong.

Rocket boost,Roll : In a way to get you in/out of melee range rapidly and commence kiting if required/possible

Skyfall, Infernal strike, Heroic leap: Same as above but with threat and damage generation.

Fair point. What if Skyfall and Rocket Boost shared a cooldown?

Arm cannon, Heroic throw, Moonfire: on move-threat generator coupled with taunt spamming which tinker has two help you maintain aggro without stopping. This should stay in some form imo. How about GCD, Channeled, castable while moving, very long and low dmg ability? Sort of a bastard prodigy of of Arcane missiles, Soothing mist and throw weapon.

Arm Cannon is just an auto attack change from melee to range once the mech leaves range.

Roc-it turret: Bit hard to evaluate this. Instant cast? slow amount and uptime, own hp pool, and how much they generate aggro and for who, range and duration are huge factors. Nevertheless this kind of tool no one has exactly but all in all VERY powerful tool.[/quote]

Agreed. I reduced the number of charges to 2, and only 2 being allowed on the field at a time. I haven't decided on how long their duration should be, but they would definitely have one. Also their range should be below 40 yds.

Cluster bomb: Another hard one to compare to anything but when it comes to kiting capabilities closest in mind come Avenger shield

Personal defense matrix: I don't want to go deeper to this ability as it's one of the bigger cd's, but i can't but notice this one has movement speed buff too and the knockback effect. Sounds like specialized kiting cd for me.

Personal transportation system: This is essentially a blink right? Not neccesary at all with rocket boots and skyfall in place; which together are bit much already imo.[/quote]

Those are Pilot abilities, unusable while in mech form.

Magnetic armor, Gorefiend's grasp Gorefiend's doesn't do damage nor daze. The range nor cd is available so it's bit hard for me to see your whole idea on this.

Yeah, that ability is meant more as a mob/add pull when they're close to the mech. It should have a shorter range (about 15-25 yds) and a medium level CD (1-2 minutes)

Magnetic Sawblade / Gravity bomb: Sounds bit similar to usage from Ursol's vortex, except this one has to be timed bit better. That being said on dazed targets it shouldn't be too hard

To be fair I'm still thinking how to use this.

Engine gunk: Sounds like black ox statue on steroids. Black ox must be picked too as it is atleast at the current, a talent.

Passive on turret. I might remove the taunt addition though.

Healing shot: No resources needed, assuming instant cast. 1 min cd with possibilty to lower it with scrap. This is way too much

Healing Shot is a charging ability, similar to Aim Shot. The longer you charge, the more powerful it becomes.

I'm still trying to decide on the medic resource. I'm not completely satisfied with Mana.

Healing Scan: No info about cd or cast time so i cannot say if i should list it or not.

Should be instant cast with a CD between charges.

There's pretty much everyting i noticed for making excellent kiting tools. I'd say it should be cut in half or atleast lose a LOT of effects in certain department. Whether it's slowing,mobility,healing or ranged damage/threat generation capabilities. Currently it seems like master of all trades to me

It's more than possible that i mininterpreted some mechanics together. So please enlighten me, the vision is afterall in YOUR head

Apologies for possible typos or weird expressions. English isn't my first language.

Hey thanks again for taking the time to check out the write up. All of this feedback is very helpful.

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We have multiple healers using holy magic, multiple classes using fel. Where is the problem again?

That every Necromancer ability can easily fit in an existing class.

Necromancers use poisons and alchemy where Death Knights do not.

Please find a Necromancer NPC that's using Alchemy. And please don't pull an Ielenia and find some random NPC in a dungeon somewhere, find an actual Necromancer. According to Wowhead there's plenty of them, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Dark magic is too broad of a reason, like saying we have too many sword weilders.

Dark Magic is certainly broad, which is why we have 10 specs that utilize some form of Shadow magic.

And yeah, you can have too many sword wielders...

Theres plenty of poison and bone abilities to develop for a caster. Do people really want DKs to have a formal caster spec as a Necro? Not any more than melee Warlocks or melee priests. New class is how Blizzard handles it

Yeah, the bone abilities should be saved for the DK, not watered down to make room for a completely different class.

In the case of the DK, it would appear the talent tree is how they handle it (see: Clawing Shadows).

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[QUOTE=Ielenia;48848582]Delicious irony~


Really? How? Because, unless I'm mistaken (and feel free to correct me if I am), but isn't your argument that because we see no definitive technology in the human culture and architecture, then that means they're unable to be good engineers to the level of gnomes? To counter that argument, I simply pointed out how the gnomes' architecture and culture shows nothing about magic and spellcasting, yet gnomes are renowned spellcasters.[/qupte]

Yeah, and humans are NOT renowned engineers. Your argument was that there was no evidence to support that Humans are not great engineers, the general level of human technology is the evidence that supports that statement. The nonexistence of any human lore figures who are great engineers supports that statement further.

Care to point out where I said, specifically, that immolate would go to rogues?

There was no ability of the Demon Hunters that wouldn't fit either the rogue or the warlock, pre-Legion.

Immolation is the ability that wouldn't fit into the Rogue class. Any Glaive-based ability wouldn't fit int he Warlock class pre-Legion.

Priests also wear armor (light armor, but armor nonetheless) and wield weapons.

Priests don't wear plate, can't equip shields, and can't equip 2H weapons.

So you have no source and are going by your wild guesses. Got it.

A source where Blizzard took a signature ability from one class and gave it to another?

Yeah I did. It's the current WoW expansion.

Scholomance is a necromancer school. Of that there is no dispute. If they're students of a necromancy school, it stands to reason they're necromancers. And the fact there's an apothecary teaching alchemy to students indicate that alchemy seems to be an integral part of necromancy studies.

But none of the "Bored Students" have poison abilities. The only one with poison abilities is the Apothecary. Further, we haven't established that any of those students are in fact Necromancers.

That is irrelevant to the question. Because that whole point can be rendered moot if a spec dks don't have is given to necromancers. Like, y'know, poison.

Indeed it would, but it isn't a moot point because as of right now poison doesn't exist in the ability set of any WoW necromancer.

[Thimagryn]

That every Necromancer ability can easily fit in an existing class.

Why is that a problem?

Every Warrior ability can easily fit in an existing class too. They're all generic strikes and generic fighting abilities that can be distributed to any class.

Please find a Necromancer NPC that's using Alchemy. And please don't pull an Ielenia and find some random NPC in a dungeon somewhere, find an actual Necromancer. According to Wowhead there's plenty of them, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Please show me the Demon Hunter NPC that has a tanking form prior to Legion. Oh wait, you can't!

Dark Magic is certainly broad, which is why we have 10 specs that utilize some form of Shadow magic.

And yeah, you can have too many sword wielders...

God forbid we have more magic users in a fantasy setting! No caster uses Necromancy. We don't have any issues here.

Yeah, the bone abilities should be saved for the DK, not watered down to make room for a completely different class.

In the case of the DK, it would appear the talent tree is how they handle it (see: Clawing Shadows).

They could be saved for the DK but that doesn't seem to be the direction they want with him. Other than bone shield and marrowrend, what does he really have? His Blood Tanking is pretty well defined and they didn't really push any bone themes in Unholy.

I can see Necromancer's Bone spec potentially being a DPS/Healer hybrid spec like Discipline or Mistweaver, but more towards damage than healing, a sort of 2-ways to play spec. Instead of shields you're creating exoskeletons and mending bones and redirecting damage to minions.

[Teriz]

Compared to Arthas?Illidan?Chen or Even Kel'thuzad?
Again, just like your logic that a class should be from Wc3(since every other introduced was), a class should have a strong lore figure(like the last 3) the class must also be playable in the Wc3 campaigns(because of them were), the Tinker wasn't playable in the campaigns and doesn't have a strong lore figure in wc3 like the ones i mentioned so they can't be a class.

Gazlowe would be that strong lore figure.

And i don't see/saw people crying for Mekkatorque to be introduced.Yet i saw every hero realease people asking for Kel'thuzad and his realease was

Weren't we just in a thread where people preferred a Tinker class to a Necromancer class at a rate of almost 3 to 1?

No, lorewise nothing stops them from creating this mechs but they aren't for combat for gameplay reasons.

And those gameplay reasons are what exactly?

You can literally buy a Lightforged golem from the Army of the Light but you can't fight with it, despite being show what they can do.
This stuff in WoW are made to be cosmetic, and the Tinker/engineering thematic was implemented to be a side thing, not a class.The fact that engineers can do many variations of what the Wc3 did proves that.

Where's the variation on the Tinker claw pack?

These PETS are made in the same manner as would any other, the difference is they are smaller.

You know engineers can create the arakkoa golems as pets and they can also cast many spells.Its the gameplay that dictactes that they should be pets but lorewise, they are easily capeable to build a big one.

Really? I don't see Gelbin or Gazlowe building tiny robot pets. I also don't see a multi-racial corp of people piloting and building mechs. The only races I've seen do it are Goblins, Gnomes, and Draenei on Argus.

Because they fit the class they belong instead of being a profession rip off.

Also, now are you saying that classes have professions abilities?

What?

Necromancers with poisons > You asked where is a necromancer that can use poisons > Scholomance > The guy teachs Necromancers how to use poisons >Necromancers can use poisons.

Then link me to the Necromancers that were taught how to use poisons.

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Why is that a problem?

Because there's 12 classes in the game currently and people are already complaining about class homogeny.

Please show me the Demon Hunter NPC that has a tanking form prior to Legion. Oh wait, you can't!

Actually the DH hero unit in WC3 was quite a capable tank hero due to its high levels of evasion. Just saying.

God forbid we have more magic users in a fantasy setting! No caster uses Necromancy. We don't have any issues here.

That depends. According to the definition at wowpedia, Warlocks can be considered to utilize forms of Necromancy.

They could be saved for the DK but that doesn't seem to be the direction they want with him. Other than bone shield and marrowrend, what does he really have?

Bonestorm.

[Thimagryn]

Because there's 12 classes in the game currently and people are already complaining about class homogeny.

That won't be fixed by adding any new class. People who complain about that don't want any new classes and want what's currently there to be balanced.

Actually the DH hero unit in WC3 was quite a capable tank hero due to its high levels of evasion. Just saying.

So why weren't Warlocks given Metamorphosis tanking like people asked for? You must have an answer for this considering all your points are lined up to Warlocks being able to do everything a Demon Hunter could have in Metamorphosis form. Blizzard chose to implement the Demon Hunter instead. Same goes with why Bone spells would go to the Necromancer; a theme which is not mutually exclusive but can be used in ways a DK wouldn't (ie, protecting and healing others).

All in all, Death Knights aren't themed around Bone spells, and at most they have 3 abilities. That's more than enough room for another class to pick up from and expand into a healing spec.

Same goes with Tinkers having a Mechanical take on fighting despite Hunters already using mechanical gadgets and explosives. There's plenty of room to grow anything. All classes are possible, it's just a matter of demand.

That depends. According to the definition at wowpedia, Warlocks can be considered to utilize forms of Necromancy.

True to a point. Gul'dan was the one who created the Death Knights of Warcraft 2, and he was a Warlock. But lore works differently from gameplay. Zeliek was a Death Knight and he could still cast Holy spells; a feat that's not reflected in our own classes. Like you said, it depends on what type of X class we're playing. We play as Druids, not Druids of the Flame. As far as it goes, our Warlocks don't actually use Necromancy in the conventional sense.

[Teriz]

That won't be fixed by adding any new class. People who complain about that don't want any new classes and want what's currently there to be balanced.

It could be fixed by adding a more original class that actually does something that no other class can currently do.

So why weren't Warlocks given Metamorphosis tanking like people asked for? You must have an answer for this considering all your points are lined up to Warlocks being able to do everything a Demon Hunter could have in Metamorphosis form.

The tanking was mostly done outside of Metamorphosis. Though, the evasion modifier was still in place during the transformation, so it was quite a nightmare trying to kill a massive demon launching fireballs into your troops, and 60-80% of your attacks were missing.

All in all, Death Knights aren't themed around Bone spells, and at most they have 3 abilities. That's more than enough room for another class to pick up from and expand into a healing spec.

Eh, DKs are themed around necromancy. Necromancy includes bone skills.

Same goes with Tinkers having a Mechanical take on fighting despite Hunters already using mechanical gadgets and explosives. There's plenty of room to grow anything. All classes are possible, it's just a matter of demand.

But again, the issue is that there's plenty of things that Tinkers can do that Hunters can't do and vice versa, thus providing a stark difference. We can use WC3 and NPCs in game to drive home that difference.

We can't do that with Necromancers and DKs.

True to a point. Gul'dan was the one who created the Death Knights of Warcraft 2, and he was a Warlock. But lore works differently from gameplay. Zeliek was a Death Knight and he could still cast Holy spells; a feat that's not reflected in our own classes. Like you said, it depends on what type of X class we're playing. We play as Druids, not Druids of the Flame. As far as it goes, our Warlocks don't actually use Necromancy in the conventional sense.

There are Necromancers in the game that are using Shadowbolt, so there you go.

[Thimagryn]

It could be fixed by adding a more original class that actually does something that no other class can currently do.

How would a new class exclusive to Goblins and Gnomes help homogenize the other 12 classes? It's not something that will address any of the problems that Warlocks and Rogues already face.

The tanking was mostly done outside of Metamorphosis.

So room for a tanking Demon Hunter, right?

We don't have a Spellcaster that heals others with Bone/Necromancy. Is that enough difference for you now?

Eh, DKs are themed around necromancy. Necromancy includes bone skills.

And Death skills. Which Warlocks have more of now. Again, broad generalization. We have 4+ classes that use Fire magic too, all in different ways.

But again, the issue is that there's plenty of things that Tinkers can do that Hunters can't do and vice versa, thus providing a stark difference. We can use WC3 and NPCs in game to drive home that difference.

And your argument is 'but Hunters could do that too and take on those themes'. It's a moot point. Conceptually, there's nothing a Tinker can do that a Gnome/Goblin Hunter with Engineering couldn't. A Tinker isn't being prevented by any other classes' potential, which is what you're using to exclude a Necromancer. The stark difference is that you're applying it to Necromancers while ignoring it for Tinkers :/

You would only have a point if Death Knights already did everything you're saying they could. They don't, and they aren't likely going to. They won't heal others with necromancy, they won't have a lich form, they won't have a formal caster spec. That's the same basic reason why there is room for a Demon Hunter. The Warlock did nothing to void the DH even though they could do everything a Demon Hunter can, including having blindfolds and abs. Gul'dan got buff in his final phase!