Burning of Teldressil Broadcast Text (Spoiler!!!)

[Combatbutler]

You don't order mass retreat and leaving your allies fight common battle. The moment Horde left all BL attention was on Alliance. Yes at the moment of Broken Shore Alliance and Horde were allies.

PS Its old topic i'm not gonna argue about.

Yes you do, the moment things turn south, you sound a signal to retreat and your ally retreats likewise or tries to salvage this on their own, depending on the circumstances, but the most bizarre thing about this whole situation is, the Alliance didn't even get flanked or cut off due to the horde retreat, the legion army could literally not reach them without marching around the entire Island. The Alliance then got steamrolled by the demons they fought before and the reaper gul'dan summoned in.

So I don't understand why people are hung up about the broken shore

[Deleted]

So, where does that broadcast text say anything about Sylvanas burning Teldrassil?

It just says she fight Mulfurion's army and that some Night Elf disguises as a troll as part of some plot to avenge the burning. There is nothing between the planning of moving an army (and no mention of a plan to burn the tree there) and a nelf wanting vengeance for the burnt tree. As such we can only speculate what happens between those points.

[Toppy]

You don't order mass retreat and leaving your allies fight common battle. The moment Horde left all BL attention was on Alliance. Yes at the moment of Broken Shore Alliance and Horde were allies.

PS Its old topic i'm not gonna argue about.

Here is what would have happened if Horde didnt retreat:

Horde would have been overwhelmed and killed off.

Alliance would have stayed longer and if not totally killed off, would have lost way more than they ended up losing.

Legion would have won.

[CreatureLives]

Here is what would have happened if Horde didnt retreat:

Horde would have been overwhelmed and killed off.

Alliance would have stayed longer and if not totally killed off, would have lost way more than they ended up losing.

Legion would have won.

Lok'tar ogar.

[Minikin]

2 Times the Horde, 3 times the madness and none of shirtless glory.

You have activated my trap card!!!!!!!


It's a windrunner bow using gorehowl as an arrow...

- - - Updated - - -

I'd wager it's because the Horde had a healthy head-start on mining Azerite and it's much faster to get it to Orgrimmar so it can be studied and put to use powering new technology than any major Alliance settlement. We don't know exactly what Azerite does right now but we do know it's insanely powerful--this is crystallized Titan blood, after all. If the Horde can outfit its troops in a ready supply of Azerite-enhanced weapons and armor, and use Azerite-powered siege weapons, that might be enough of an X-Factor to offset Malfurion's overwhelming druidic power simply through numbers.

We don't know how big Malfurion's army is, either. The Sentinels' and druids' strength was never in battles of attrition or numerical superiority; even at their best in the War of the Ancients and in Warcraft 3 they preferred hit-and-run ambushes and precision strikes, suggesting relatively low numbers (which makes sense given that elves seem to have pretty low birthrates in Warcraft lore, the Windrunner family notwithstanding, and the night elves' millennia of isolation with many males spending that time slumbering in the Emerald Dream would impact that even further). If he can only field a couple hundred troops himself and those troops don't have the ready access to and supply lines providing a steady stream of Azerite that the Horde currently seems to, 200 Horde troops equipped with Azerite-enhanced gear, siege weapons powered by Azerite-based cores, and Azerite-based bombs would be enough to tip the scales.

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Also, did they ever fix that whole issue with Teldrassil being heavily corrupted by fel magic thanks to the Aspects not blessing it? If anything this might be a boon overall for Azeroth's well being, although a significant blow to Alliance morale and the night elves' culture. I'm personally hoping, eventually, the night elves take a look at clearing out Dire Maul and use it as their new capital, with Feralas being the main Alliance point of operations in Kalimdor (in exchange, the Horde could push through and secure the Badlands, giving both factions a fairly secure and defensible territory in the other continent located near the center, close enough to remain an active threat to the enemy faction but far enough to make a campaign to clear them out costly with their troops focused on Zandalar, Kul'Tiras, and the surrounding islands).

Yea I believe it was before the events of siege of wyrmrest temple that Alex and the rest finally blessed teldrassil. And in the frandral novel the old od infection is taken out. So it's pretty much clear.

[Darktbs]

You have activated my trap card!!!!!!!


It's a windrunner bow using gorehowl as an arrow...

"And now i will make my own Horde, i will travel back in time, to an alternate timeline where i don't exist and recruit my sisters and then i will return to the current timeline and invade with my Horde of loyal elfs ."

"Our bound is magical, our will unbrekable, who will stand agaisn't us?"

Ta da ta da ta da

"World of Warcraft:Rangers of Quel'thalas."

[Highwhale]

Yes you do, the moment things turn south, you sound a signal to retreat and your ally retreats likewise or tries to salvage this on their own, depending on the circumstances, but the most bizarre thing about this whole situation is, the Alliance didn't even get flanked or cut off due to the horde retreat, the legion army could literally not reach them without marching around the entire Island. The Alliance then got steamrolled by the demons they fought before and the reaper gul'dan summoned in.

So I don't understand why people are hung up about the broken shore

Difference - when Horde starts retreat BL still had Alliance who fought them. When Alliance starts retreat there no one who can distract BL. Its leads to Guldan summoning big ass fel reaper = Varian stays behind to secure his people safety.

Look at BFA - Horde hypocrites. So when its Alliance - we run! When its Sylvanas and Horde - Saurfang cover our asses!

Lok Tar Ogar my ass.

[Ash123]

Difference - when Horde starts retreat BL still had Alliance who fought them. When Alliance starts retreat there no one who can distract BL. Its leads to Guldan summoning big ass fel reaper = Varian stays behind to secure his people safety.

Look at BFA - Horde hypocrites. So when its Alliance - we run! When its Sylvanas and Horde - Saurfang cover our asses!

Lok Tar Ogar my ass.

You really did not know what happen there.

Horde and Alliance basically retreated at the same time. Alliance ordered retreat like 10 seconds after hearing the horn.

Horde supported Alliance by providing air cover (against bats) and holding the highground so Alliance will not be flanked.

And during Alliance's retreat, both bats/legions force from flank did not cause any issue, which means Horde's retreated did not hurt the Alliance.

The only reason Varian dies is because Guldan unexpected summon the reaper from no where, which can not countered by Sylvanas's dark ranger or Horde's foot soldiers.

So if you really want to find someone to blame, blame Jaina. She is god-like during the BFA but did literally nothing during broken shore. A blizzard, ice war, teleportation can all save Varian but she did nothing.

[Rosalynda]

More and more the horde become the faction of hypocrites it seems.

Angsty Alliance vs Hypocrite Horde. Coming to the Azeroth Bowl this summer! sponsored by hetap.

[Deleted]

Yes you do, the moment things turn south, you sound a signal to retreat and your ally retreats likewise or tries to salvage this on their own, depending on the circumstances, but the most bizarre thing about this whole situation is, the Alliance didn't even get flanked or cut off due to the horde retreat, the legion army could literally not reach them without marching around the entire Island. The Alliance then got steamrolled by the demons they fought before and the reaper gul'dan summoned in.

So I don't understand why people are hung up about the broken shore

To this day (and probably forever) I wonder what the discourse would be if the roles had been reversed. If it had been the alliance giving cover and leaving first and the Vol'Jin getting hammered by the reaver. What would the reactions have been on both factions (both characters and players).

All in all I agree horde's retreat makes little difference in the alliance outcome, but it heavily implied that it is, so that hardly matters at this point.

[Mehrunes]

I've yet to see any... If it were a thing they could do I'd think we would have seen one or two by now.

We've seen a Val'kyr perform a ritual that was modeled after Death Knight resurrection, which required more power than resurrecting Forsaken-like undead, on Nathanos. It did not die.

Eyir, who ascended from just a normal Vrykul, is called a goddess by Ashildir, what would you call Helya in that case? She held the same position, was more powerful, and resides over the land of the dead. Sounds like Goddess of death to me.

No way, a cult brainwashed by Odyn and Eyir see them as gods? Then it must mean they are obviously gods, even though even the Titans that made Odyn aren't.

Because if Sylvanas would force her to she wouldn't have a choice?

You're once again making Eyir to be the Overmind of the Val'kyr swarm. I'm not really seeing it.

And if it's done through magic, so that you can't fight back or try to flee, even if you wanted to? Curse.

She was bound in magical chains. You can't really fight back or flee from normal chains either, unless you're Houdini. Are chains a curse now?

Because even helya wasn't... She was only transformed against her will, Odyn did not have dominion over her mind or her actions, which is why she was able to rebel... Logic dictates Eyir is in the same position, except she doesn't want to rebel, because she wants to be where she is, just like all the Valkyr who serve under her... If enslavement was still the path they were taking for making Valkyr, they wouldn't only be converting volunteers.

Odyn is not and has never been capable of mind controlling the other watchers... If he were, the Dragon Aspects would have never come to be, as he opposed, vehemently, the other watchers wanting to request their empowerment by the Pantheon... Against his objections they contacted the Titans, who then created the Aspects.

This is explicitly false. Helya was a slave until Loken freed her. She's have acted against Odyn way earlier otherwise. So logic dictates the exact same thing can apply to Eyir. Because we don't know when he made her. It could have very well been before he established the brainwashing cult of his persona. Or she could even be one of the Val'kyr from Helya's time that did not rebel. And what do other Watchers have to do with anything here?

[meroko]

Alliance started it

[Mehrunes]

Funny how fucking stupid horde fanbois excuse everything the horde has ever done as either "they don´t count as horde at that time or as but it was justified to do that we had to do it".

Everything? No. Everything that is indeed justifiable? Yes. I know there is no distinction in your world because Alliance geniuses like you feel the twisted need to straw-man everything that endangers their world view of Alliance being god's gift to Azeroth and all-encompassing HORDE BIAS being the Satan, but in the real world those are two different concepts. And just so happens that a military retreat under those circumstances is indeed justifiable.

And please how is seeing your "allies" desert you on a battlefield without any fucking notice WHY, not something to held them up to or to realitiate for that hm?

Apparently a horn signal doesn't sound as a notice now. Even though it's the main form of communication on medieval-esque battlefields. With it being established in WoW as well. The more you know. Alliance world of alternative facts sure is fascinating. As for the WHY, the space ships that bombarded the Horde and caused them to flee are visible from Alliance side.

Because i´m right with it?

Because, even putting aside your actual behavior in your posts, the idea that people liking something you don't are children and putting yourself on a high-ground of adulthood are actually insecurity-ridden kindergarten antics.

Should i add that i would be glad if we can finally kill her or would you like me to mention it every time i have to answer to you?

Sure mark of mental maturity. Or stability.

So let me try to get that: Because i have my Sig which says that i consider some of you (and ofc you won´t count yourself to that people) children for liking Sylvanas which is a horrible written char which has only one thing for her going aka "i will do ANYTHING so my rotten soul wont be tormented in the afterlife" it is that YOU of all people consider me a kid...

What does it change that it's HIM? Hurr durring about how people who like something you don't are children is much more infantile behavior (it's also a severe problem with the concept of words) than liking something you don't.

And that comes from someone who has such a horde hardone that he belitterates everyone in every thread that somehow involves the Horde or Sylvanas...

Irony 2: the ironing.

We don't know how big Malfurion's army is, either. The Sentinels' and druids' strength was never in battles of attrition or numerical superiority; even at their best in the War of the Ancients and in Warcraft 3 they preferred hit-and-run ambushes and precision strikes, suggesting relatively low numbers (which makes sense given that elves seem to have pretty low birthrates in Warcraft lore, the Windrunner family notwithstanding, and the night elves' millennia of isolation with many males spending that time slumbering in the Emerald Dream would impact that even further). If he can only field a couple hundred troops himself and those troops don't have the ready access to and supply lines providing a steady stream of Azerite that the Horde currently seems to, 200 Horde troops equipped with Azerite-enhanced gear, siege weapons powered by Azerite-based cores, and Azerite-based bombs would be enough to tip the scales.

Also, if the goal was to get the Azerite super-weapon close enough to Teldrassil, it'd make sense to deploy a smaller elite force to get as close as possible while still undetected. So even if you do get eventually detected while still not close enough, the enemy would not have enough time to mobilize and stop you getting in position in time.

Hm i remember Varian saying that they have to get a MESSAGE to Sylvanas that she should keep the sky clear which implies that they had some sort of communication going on but ofc when the Horde retreats said communication is somehow don´t working anymore...

I wonder what sort of communication would be most optimal for a battlefield... Particularly two armies separated by its topography... Something that doesn't require physical contact or even proximity, but still could travel across a large distance... Like sound or something...

People still talking about the Broken Shore.

Fucking LOL, Blizzard REALLY knows how to string people along.

Is it really their doing? If you got a group of people that convinced themselves their group is only ever reacting to what the other one does since they are flawless saints, because they can't coddle themselves to sleep otherwise or something, to the point they engage in reality bending of highest order and cherry-pick only the data that's most convenient to their convictions, a challenged Rock would be able to string them along.

Just like Horde's retreat at Broken Shore.

Yeah, no. The Horde retreated immediately after the spaceships stopped rained hell on them. The spaceships in turn started raining hell on them immediately after they warped in. Since the Horde isn't Velen, they couldn't see the future and predict the sudden arrival of the spaceships. So they couldn't sound the horn earlier. They couldn't wait after sounding the horn either since the spaceships could have recharged their weapons at any moments and finished the Horde off. And since the spaceships are visible from Alliance position and so were their lasers, Alliance had all the information about the Horde retreat given to them on a plate.

I'm okay with Horde retreating. Not the way how they handled it.

Do explain since when does the Horde have precognition powers that would have allowed them to see the spaceships incoming so that they could have sound the horn in advance.

[ManiaCCC]

Because i´m right with it?

Should i add that i would be glad if we can finally kill her or would you like me to mention it every time i have to answer to you?

you are so triggered by video game I am not sure what to think about it Fact that you think you are adult because you don't like Sylvanas is laughable

[Mehrunes]

You don't order mass retreat and leaving your allies fight common battle. The moment Horde left all BL attention was on Alliance. Yes at the moment of Broken Shore Alliance and Horde were allies.

PS Its old topic i'm not gonna argue about.

The moment you face getting wiped out you retreat ASAP. Another salvo from the spaceship would have achieved that. And so what that all of the BL attention was on the Alliance? The demons from Horde side would need to walk all around the island to get to the Alliance. Nothing changed in Alliance's immediate circumstances.

Yes you do, the moment things turn south, you sound a signal to retreat and your ally retreats likewise or tries to salvage this on their own, depending on the circumstances, but the most bizarre thing about this whole situation is, the Alliance didn't even get flanked or cut off due to the horde retreat, the legion army could literally not reach them without marching around the entire Island. The Alliance then got steamrolled by the demons they fought before and the reaper gul'dan summoned in.

So I don't understand why people are hung up about the broken shore

They didn't get steamrolled though. They just got into the gunship (that covered the anti-air previously provided by Sylvanas) and left. Then Gul'dan dropped the Fel Reaver (that would have obliterated the Alliance in one hit if they weren't on the gunship) and Alliance lost only one person to defeat it (which was a complete waste anyway, given how the gunship's side guns were right in the Fel Reaver's vulnerable face). The Horde retreat changed nothing for the Alliance and only potentially saved them from getting hit by the Fel Reaver while still on ground.

Difference - when Horde starts retreat BL still had Alliance who fought them. When Alliance starts retreat there no one who can distract BL.

You really can't comprehend that the battlefield was separated by a cliff, can you? Alliance fought shit on the Horde side, the demons up there were able to harass the retreating Horde unopposed. When Alliance retreated they at least had reinforcement from the gunship (which provided a heavy tactical advantage), while facing no spaceships and less demons all around.

Its leads to Guldan summoning big ass fel reaper = Varian stays behind to secure his people safety.

There is no logical whatsoever between the Horde retreating and Gul'dan summoning the Fel Reaver.

Look at BFA - Horde hypocrites. So when its Alliance - we run! When its Sylvanas and Horde - Saurfang cover our asses!

It's almost as if different circumstances were different. And also as if Saurfang was OK with sacrificing himself, with a singular sacrifice being different than the entire faction getting blasted to oblivion by spaceships.

Lok Tar Ogar my ass.

Lok'tar Ogar never meant no retreat. Orcs aren't military retards. That'd be Alliance and their repeated inability to comprehend the negative effects of overextending their forces.

[Deleted]

It was a trap set by the Legion to wipe out both armies. They were not supposed to get anyone away from there, which is what would have happened if not for A) the retreat and B) Varians sacrifice.

It all went according to plan. I don't know why somehow this information seems to still not have reached the Horde and the Alliance, but while it still mattered, it couldn't, because Mathias Shaw wasn't Mathias Shaw until very late into the first part of the campaign.

So at least from a player perspective the whole who retreated and who had to sacrifice something is moot, because the point was to not let anyone get out of there alive.
And the point from a character's pov is that it made Alliance and Horde hate each other again/grow hatred. Alliance because of perceived betrayal and Horde because of perceived unjust accusations and retribution.

[Deleted]

... I still don't understand how a HIGH ELF pretty lady can lead the Horde. After a year and a half I'm still asking myself this question, even Disney couldn't come up with something as silly as this ... a high elf leading a horde of orcs, bullmen, trolls, goblins. Come on.

Who's gonna lead the Horde next? Vulpera? Hahaha They should add a new Teddy Bear race made of candies to lead "the Horde" next.

A High Elven "Warchief" ..., this is like making Ivar the Boneless a retard in the Vikings series and call it based on real events. Like a retard who can't walk would lead the Vikings in the Dark Ages and would actually have people follow him. Hahahahahaha

[Mehrunes]

More and more the horde become the faction of hypocrites it seems.

Angsty Alliance vs Hypocrite Horde. Coming to the Azeroth Bowl this summer! sponsored by hetap.

Where's the hypocrisy?

To this day (and probably forever) I wonder what the discourse would be if the roles had been reversed. If it had been the alliance giving cover and leaving first and the Vol'Jin getting hammered by the reaver. What would the reactions have been on both factions (both characters and players).

The Alliance players screeching about ermahgerd muh betrayal would instead screech that the Horde should have sent at least half of their force to bail them out and that it's all HORDE BIAS from the Illuminati lizard-men at Blizzard.

[Gelannerai]

The Horde’s 100% justified retreat from the Broken Shore is a great example of why the faction war long ago outlived its ability to credibly drive the story forward. It has been clear since Cataclysm (or the end of WC3 if you’re super critical) that Blizzard can’t write well enough to make the faction conflict seem believable anymore. The Horde retreating made absolutely no difference in how things shook out, and that’s something that should make sense to the characters involved even without the players’ omniscience. The fact that Blizzard used that to spark off aggression between the two factions in Legion can be boiled down to lazy writers deciding to make the Alliance leaders hold the idiot ball (and by extension all of our player characters along with them).

[Deleted]

The Horde’s 100% justified retreat from the Broken Shore is a great example of why the faction war long ago outlived its ability to credibly drive the story forward. It has been clear since Cataclysm (or the end of WC3 if you’re super critical) that Blizzard can’t write well enough to make the faction conflict seem believable anymore. The Horde retreating made absolutely no difference in how things shook out, and that’s something that should make sense to the characters involved even without the players’ omniscience. The fact that Blizzard used that to spark off aggression between the two factions in Legion can be boiled down to lazy writers deciding to make the Alliance leaders hold the idiot ball (and by extension all of our player characters along with them).

Well, yes. But they got duped .. how many times by schemes the Twilight Hammer pulled? ... now, they should have learned that by the second time at the latest and never did, so... it's kind of in character for them to be idiots. The only people to not fall for those plots got called traitors and weak constantly.
Plus you still have the mistrust and hatred issue, that clouds jugdement and at least while you're still under fire maybe not enough time to think it through. So at least from an ingame perspective I can accept the emotions boiling in the middle of a fight like on the Broken Shore, where something went obviously wrong and a trap was sprung, but you don't know by whom.

Still, I agree with you, they should learn at some point or Azeroth should (my prefered option) fall to those that keep playing it's denizens like a fiddle again and again.
Or, even better, the player characters get the option to choose not to take part in the AvH thing and instead focus on the actual war.
I say the option, because even I would like to keep a few stupid or simply bone headed characters that don't care about saving a world where the opposing faction still has a place ^^