Do you guys want Reforging in BfA?

[clevin]

It's illusion of choice. There's only a single "correct" pick and people are just going to look it up.

Except this wasn't true in Legion at least not for the class I played, Balance druid. For that spec, haste and mastery are roughly the same value, with versatility and grit being noticeable less valuable. So, at any one time I could look at my gear and say "Man, mastery is fine but I'm not getting any haste gear" and reforge some versatility to haste. When I have enough, I could reforge to mastery. Or I could do the other thing and if I was getting tons of haste gear bit not a lot of mastery...

it's basically a protection against getting a ton of drops with crappy stats on them. It's disheartening to get an item level drop that is actually not an upgrade because much of the stat budget went into stats that aren't good for the spec you're playing.

Where reforging fails is when one secondary stat is much better than any of the others.

[huth]

again if you were just using a cookie cutter build its your choice.. alot of ppl werent tho

The vast majority were. And it's not much of a choice if you're constantly talked down when you don't.

it's basically a protection against getting a ton of drops with crappy stats on them. It's disheartening to get an item level drop that is actually not an upgrade because much of the stat budget went into stats that aren't good for the spec you're playing.

Where reforging fails is when one secondary stat is much better than any of the others.

No, it just changes your perception of what constitutes crappy drops. It doesn't change that they still exist.

[Blamblam41]

Without a doubt the best system in the game that had ever been removed, especially now in the wake of "versatility" being such a uniquely piece of trash stat for universally everyone but tanks.

I will never understand the need for that stat, while simultaneously claiming that reforging somehow ruined end game gearing. It's like Blizzard thinks both issues exists in a vacuum.

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The vast majority were. And it's not much of a choice if you're constantly talked down when you don't.



No, it just changes your perception of what constitutes crappy drops. It doesn't change that they still exist.

It was only cookie cutter for the 1%.

Everyone else played the game as intended. That change was 100% Blizzard catering to raiders bitching about cookie cutter builds they put themselves into because of "the bleeding edge".

This is like saying Saronite Bombs should be removed from the game because they could remake platforms on the Lich King encounter when it was pushed live, instead of you know. Fixing the fucking encounter, or even properly testing it before release.

Do please go on about how 'everyone' did and would use a cookie cutter build. Last time I checked certain classes gear differently depending on whether or not they are fighting a boss for 6 minutes or killing trash mobs in 15 seconds. Some classes gear completely differently between M+ and Mythic raiding, so again. Not very cookie cutter.

[Enfilade]

When Reforging was first implemented, you had to use third-party apps and websites to optimize your gear around Hit Rating and Expertise.

Now that both of those stats are gone, Reforging in today's WoW works great.

[Blamblam41]

When Reforging was first implemented, you had to use third-party apps and websites to optimize your gear around Hit Rating and Expertise.

Now that both of those stats are gone, Reforging in today's WoW works great.

1% raiders will still use 3rd party apps to optimize stats, just like they do with literally every other aspect of the game.

Stop catering to raiders. They are not the intended audience for this game. They are a small community of vocal content consumers that think the entire game should be built around their gameplay because they complete the hardest content in the game.

They will find a way. No matter how dick ripped it gets, no matter how annoying or painful or whatever. Raiders will always find a way to be in the 1%, regardless of what direction Blizzard takes the game in. So designing it around them is asinine.

[DarkTZeratul]

Hit and Expertise was removed with WoD, same as Reforging.

Right, that's what I said. They removed Reforging because Hit and Expertise were also getting removed.

However the problem child wasn't Reforging, it was Hit and Expertise. If we still had Hit/Expertise/Defense ratings and Reforging I guarantee you that a majority would rather see the ratings leave and not Reforging.

Yes, Hit and Expertise were the problem. But Reforging was the solution to that problem, and eliminating the problem rendered the solution unnecessary.

Reforging today would make a lot of sense in the current game to better make use of TF items that doesn't have the best secondary stats

I don't see how Reforging Titanforged items is any different from Reforging any other item with a higher item level than you're using. In any case, you're still advocating for Reforging as a bandaid solution rather than addressing actual issues of stat balance. If a secondary stat is so undesirable that it makes you not want an item 10+ item levels higher, the solution is to address why that stat is undesirable rather than just let you swap it for something better.

[Craaazyyy]

The vast majority were. And it's not much of a choice if you're constantly talked down when you don't.

so because vast majority of players dont want to think for themselves and were just using someone elses build and everything we should remove all of that from the game? makes sense

back in the days alot of classes had different builds(especially in pvp) and different stat priorities.. and they were all viable in their own right..

[Ozzyorcborne]

Yes most definitely yes.

[Grimreaper]

was a great system when you had hit and expertise that needed to be exact values.
but now without that a reforging system would be bullshit and useless

get a peice of gear, go to a vendor pay 40g to move the least uselful stat to most useful, no thought about it
literally fucking pointless, no thinking no econmy driven as its an npc
there is literally no thoguht put into it, back then there was for some people but most used mr robot to get the optimal.

no reforging would literally be useless.

You do realise not all specs have a single stat that is always best and worst? There is still haste breakpoints and crit caps for a lot of classes and specs, while others need a certain balance between mastery and other stats.

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It's illusion of choice. There's only a single "correct" pick and people are just going to look it up.

No, there isnt.

[Blamblam41]

Right, that's what I said. They removed Reforging because Hit and Expertise were also getting removed.

Yes, Hit and Expertise were the problem. But Reforging was the solution to that problem, and eliminating the problem rendered the solution unnecessary.

I don't see how Reforging Titanforged items is any different from Reforging any other item with a higher item level than you're using. In any case, you're still advocating for Reforging as a bandaid solution rather than addressing actual issues of stat balance. If a secondary stat is so undesirable that it makes you not want an item 10+ item levels higher, the solution is to address why that stat is undesirable rather than just let you swap it for something better.

The problem with that is just how plainly different each class is balanced and scaled. You're talking about a game that derives damage values from things like %AP, %SP, %health, %MP. You have classes that have cooldowns that give them 100% crit and turn their excess crit into mastery for 12 seconds.

How the fuck do you plan on balancing 36 specs so that every stat is within a certain % of dps per stat, while also making gear choices meaningful and interesting?

The problem is you can't, so take meaningful gear choice out of the equation and put reforging in its place. Now gear choice is not so meaningful or interesting because you can make an interesting stat choice with reforging and now you can balance all 36 specs so that they benefit relatively equally around all the stats, thus making ilvl the defacto determination on whether or not something is an upgrade.

Choosing your preferred stats through reforging is just a bonus.

[huth]

No, there isnt.

It's a fairly simple mathematical problem with a definitive answer. So yes, there is.

[WintersLegion]

It would be more of a drag, since there would be even less thought to it. Just a chore you have to deal with.

It wouldn't really add anything to gameplay as it was in MoP, particularly with Hit and Expertise gone.

What could work would be something like in D3, where you can reroll the random bonuses(i.e. one or more of WF/TF, Socket, tertiaries) at an ever increasing cost.


What it definitely wouldn't do is add more customisation, since there's nothing here that can really be customised. You either do it the way the guides tell you to, or you'll get put down by everybody for doing it "wrong".

It would also be a lot more overpowered with out hit and expertise as there are no longer any wasted stats like there was when anything over the hit or expertise cap was wasted sure some stats may not be your best stats but they all still increase your power.

[clevin]

The vast majority were. And it's not much of a choice if you're constantly talked down when you don't.

That also was when we had hit/expertise. It still might happen but it's less likely if 2 or more secondaries are all close to one another in value so you can reforge to whatever you're short on at the time. As for bring talked down to, grow a spine.

No, it just changes your perception of what constitutes crappy drops. It doesn't change that they still exist.

Sure they do. And with reforging you could make them less crappy. The downside of that is.... what?

[Nefarious Tea]

No. /10chars

EDIT: the only reason reforging was added in the first place is because DPS needed arbitrary values for hit rating to cap, and tanks needed arbitrary values of expertise and defense rating. Less than that value and you were essentially worthless, more stat than that value was wasted.

[huth]

That also was when we had hit/expertise.

Yet the peer pressure issue still remains, even when Reforging and Hit/Expertise aren't in the game. Hit/Expertise weren't the cause.

Sure they do. And with reforging you could make them less crappy. The downside of that is.... what?

The problem is that there isn't actually an upside from Blizzard's PoV. It's just extra work for no benefit.

[Mafic]

Yes.

Bring back the RPG into WoW.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I don't see how Reforging Titanforged items is any different from Reforging any other item with a higher item level than you're using. In any case, you're still advocating for Reforging as a bandaid solution rather than addressing actual issues of stat balance. If a secondary stat is so undesirable that it makes you not want an item 10+ item levels higher, the solution is to address why that stat is undesirable rather than just let you swap it for something better.

Example.
You get a belt that is +15 item levels higher than what you got and you're happy, then you go to see the stats and it's got one good rating for you and one poor. The itemization of the belt means it's not an upgrade so you feel "cheated" of a rare +15 ilvl roll...
If you had reforging you could reforge that one poor stat and gain some of a stat you wanted, making your +15 belt a small upgrade and thus not a complete waste.

It would also allow you to use higher ilvl items for your offspecs. For example if you're a Holy Paladin as a main you want Crit and Mastery so naturally you collect items for that spec and that's what you get from raids. Then a couple of your *scrub* friends ask if you can help them out in 5mans or maybe a heroic raid and they need a tank. However your gear is all crit and mastery which is bad stats for Protection, no problem! Just go and reforge your gear to Haste and you're good to go.


I would welcome Reforging with open arms just because of the flexibility it offers.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I'd like reforging as well as random stat rerolls in dungeons. Random stat re-rolls have no place in raids though.

[DarkTZeratul]

Example.
You get a belt that is +15 item levels higher than what you got and you're happy, then you go to see the stats and it's got one good rating for you and one poor. The itemization of the belt means it's not an upgrade so you feel "cheated" of a rare +15 ilvl roll...

If a +15 item isn't an upgrade, then Blizzard needs to fix why the stat disparity is that huge. Reforging is just a bandaid that makes the problem less bad, it does not fix the problem.

[huth]

If a +15 item isn't an upgrade, then Blizzard needs to fix why the stat disparity is that huge. Reforging is just a bandaid that makes the problem less bad, it does not fix the problem.

For that matter, you'd still be able to run into the situation.