Why is the Horde evil when Alliance is the one starting the wars? (maybe spoilers)

[Clone]

Facts? Have I red wrong that in Before the Storm Sylvanas is planning on attacking Stormwind right after the legion is defeated? Not true aggression yes, but she is actively mobilizing for such.

Book is not out yet, nobody knows the full events yet. Even so, Sylvanas can plan all she wants, until she actually starts a war she hasn't started a war.

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Sylvanas did not disband the army of the horde after the Legion's war because she wants to go to war again , against stormwind. But she lacks the ressources, and the horde army is weakened.

Then come Azerite, hence her " This change everything" we saw in the cinematic with Gallywix.

Thus, she mobilize her army to attack the alliance because Azerite give her an edge and an advantage, and go to burn teldrassil with it.



She thought the alliance would be weakened, but did not expect the retaliation of Anduin against Undercity.
The alliance itself declares the Attack on Teldrassil as " a declaration of war ", and there are enough proof in the file showing that Sylvanas did invade with an army the land of the night elves, with the climax of this invasion being the burning of Teldrassil.*

BTW :
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/690467.jpg

FOR THE HERD !

Oh, so you've read the book already?

[kittenwolf]

I must admit (as a Horde player) I would be over the moon if the storyline in BfA ended up with:
* Sylvanas pulls yet more shenanigans, something Wrathgate level and even a lot of the Horde start getting antsy about her
* Vol'Jin's spirit is called up, and he has a nice long discussion with the other Horde leaders
* Sylvanas is called on her shit by the other horde leaders, and they demand she step down
* She brands them traitors and refuses
* Players side with the other horde leaders and send a delegation to the Alliance
* Alliance leaders listen to the issues and agree to help deal with Sylvanas (and any Undead that follow her) and sign a peace treaty with the Horde (again). Greymane says that they're all traitors and morons and this is all a plot, and storms out
* Combined Horde/Alliance assault on Sylvanas, similar to the MoP assault on Garrosh
* Greymane attacks Sylvanas on his own, badly wounds her but gets killed
* Sylvanas tries to pull a "Great work, this was clearly the plan all along, you've brought the Alliance here, lets wipe them out" to the assembled Horde
* Baine tells her her time has ended, and crushes her
* Horde declares Baine the new warchief, as the one that's clearly the most even-tempered of the leaders left

Sylvanas and Greymane being dead, there is much rejoicing on all sides.

[Niwes]

been on no side really. play A and H in parallel. in some xpacs main was A, in some was H. but i wonder myself, who really started the first step ? i dont see real proofs of what OP says.

the only one thing i see is: horde was first in silithus and farm the blood. but this dont mean anything. if A would be there first, they would farm it first. there is no offense in that.

so, who is REALLY starting war ? do they burn teldrasil at first ? or first invade lordaeron ?

who REALLY starts the war ? and plz, show sources and explain.

until now, i can not see who is really doing the first unmoral step.

[Verdugo]

I must admit (as a Horde player) I would be over the moon if the storyline in BfA ended up with:
* Sylvanas pulls yet more shenanigans, something Wrathgate level and even a lot of the Horde start getting antsy about her
* Vol'Jin's spirit is called up, and he has a nice long discussion with the other Horde leaders
* Sylvanas is called on her shit by the other horde leaders, and they demand she step down
* She brands them traitors and refuses
* Players side with the other horde leaders and send a delegation to the Alliance
* Alliance leaders listen to the issues and agree to help deal with Sylvanas (and any Undead that follow her) and sign a peace treaty with the Horde (again). Greymane says that they're all traitors and morons and this is all a plot, and storms out
* Combined Horde/Alliance assault on Sylvanas, similar to the MoP assault on Garrosh
* Greymane attacks Sylvanas on his own, badly wounds her but gets killed
* Sylvanas tries to pull a "Great work, this was clearly the plan all along, you've brought the Alliance here, lets wipe them out" to the assembled Horde
* Baine tells her her time has ended, and crushes her
* Horde declares Baine the new warchief, as the one that's clearly the most even-tempered of the leaders left

Sylvanas and Greymane being dead, there is much rejoicing on all sides.

So almost repeat of MoP, at least dont lie you play Horde.

[Clone]

Thanks, I try to entertain :3 Though I disagree with the latter part. The latest fantasy is now ignoring or handwaving away Alliance's attack in Silithus. Like @Schattenlied and their mental gymnastics above.

Dude was trying to tell me there were just tons of Lordaeron survivors in another thread, and couldn't provide source. Then he accused me of saying people waited around for the Scourge to kill them, which he couldn't find proof of. When called out on it he just fucked off the thread.

[Deleted]

Cataclysm and subsequently MoP was spurred by ramifications of Varimathras' plans' culmination at the Wrath Gate followed by the scarcity of resources and actions of the Twilight Hammer. Tensions exploded as Garrosh decided the Horde should gloriously take anything they wanted rather than pursue diplomatic negotiations.

Thrall was letting his people starve while the Night Elves were being bitches that denied any kind of trade with the Horde. Garrosh was doing the only sane thing.

[Kithelle]

Don't bother asking this forum. Tons of people here get off on the Alliance's supposed moral superiority.

Same exact thing can be said about the Horde, especially when to many people on these forums Sylvanas is a innocent little flower.

[Darkeon]

Blizzard are a goddamn genius if they get this big amount of nerds defending an imaginary faction.

[Heladys]

"Dude why did you attack me to disrupt my plans of building the next superweapon? You are such aggressors!"

uh-huh.

[Deleted]

"Dude why did you attack me to disrupt my plans of building the next superweapon? You are such aggressors!"

uh-huh.

They don't even have to ask why. They know. The horde player is instructed that if he is to find any Alliance members in the operation, to kill them. They know there will be alliance spies there, because they expect it, because they are up to no good.

[Deleted]

Its been bothering the hell out of me lately. The Horde is almost always seen by the player base as the evil ones. But isnt it the Alliance that keeps sparking the conflicts? WotlK (into Cata and MoP) conflict was started by Varian, BfA started by Anduin, attempts at peace are typically stopped by either Nelves or a human. Zandalari seem to be joining the Horde due to Alliance screwing with them.

I mean yes, the Horde typically takes the conflicts WAY TO FAR, but they are pretty much responding to shit that the Alliance started in the first place. Then the Alliance bitch about how evil the Horde is for daring to fight back. Hell look at Theramore. It was very very clearly being used by the Alliance to start, and then supply, an invasion into the Barrens. So Horde of course attack it. Then Jaina cries about neutrality while very clearly not subscribing towards that standard herself.

The orcs are an invading force from another world. Thats how it all started between humans and orcs and as thus the orcs and by proxy the horde is "evil"

[Toppy]

The orcs are an invading force from another world. Thats how it all started between humans and orcs and as thus the orcs and by proxy the horde is "evil"

Humans are too.

Elves invaded the Eastern Kingdom.

[Noradin]

We as players may know the Forsaken are seriously different than the Scourge, but how deeply rooted that knowledge would be to people living in Hillsbrad?

did you do any Forsaken quests in Hisbrad, ever?
I do not see any difference between forsaken and the scourge (cult of the damned).

[Deleted]

Humans are too.

Elves invaded the Eastern Kingdom.

What did the humans invade?

[Toppy]

What did the humans invade?

Humans are not native to the planet.

[Deleted]

Humans are not native to the planet.

so/so. They are titan creations, but the titans themselves liberated the planet from the old gods.

The only natives are Trolls, Silithid and Tauren (?)

[Eeram]

Except Alliance attacks the Horde in Silithus. Is Horde mining a new resource an "apparent Horde aggression" as well?

But this isn't true like at all? if we are going based off the quest lines and everything there isn't a SINGLE quest that tells the alliance players to attack the miners. the only reason miners are getting killed in game is because they are flagged creatures. Shaw even tells us to WATCH the horde not once does he say kill or anything like that. and the other two quest say slow down the horde by blowing up the shredders and pick up the new ore.
Where the horde quest says if you see ANY alliance kill them on sight.

[Aeula]

I must admit (as a Horde player) I would be over the moon if the storyline in BfA ended up with:
* Sylvanas pulls yet more shenanigans, something Wrathgate level and even a lot of the Horde start getting antsy about her
* Vol'Jin's spirit is called up, and he has a nice long discussion with the other Horde leaders
* Sylvanas is called on her shit by the other horde leaders, and they demand she step down
* She brands them traitors and refuses
* Players side with the other horde leaders and send a delegation to the Alliance
* Alliance leaders listen to the issues and agree to help deal with Sylvanas (and any Undead that follow her) and sign a peace treaty with the Horde (again). Greymane says that they're all traitors and morons and this is all a plot, and storms out
* Combined Horde/Alliance assault on Sylvanas, similar to the MoP assault on Garrosh
* Greymane attacks Sylvanas on his own, badly wounds her but gets killed
* Sylvanas tries to pull a "Great work, this was clearly the plan all along, you've brought the Alliance here, lets wipe them out" to the assembled Horde
* Baine tells her her time has ended, and crushes her
* Horde declares Baine the new warchief, as the one that's clearly the most even-tempered of the leaders left

Sylvanas and Greymane being dead, there is much rejoicing on all sides.

Lol. Someone who 'plays horde' wanting Baine as warchief.

Clearly an Alliance troll.

[Whitedragon]

Its been bothering the hell out of me lately. The Horde is almost always seen by the player base as the evil ones. But isnt it the Alliance that keeps sparking the conflicts? WotlK (into Cata and MoP) conflict was started by Varian, BfA started by Anduin, attempts at peace are typically stopped by either Nelves or a human. Zandalari seem to be joining the Horde due to Alliance screwing with them.

I mean yes, the Horde typically takes the conflicts WAY TO FAR, but they are pretty much responding to shit that the Alliance started in the first place. Then the Alliance bitch about how evil the Horde is for daring to fight back. Hell look at Theramore. It was very very clearly being used by the Alliance to start, and then supply, an invasion into the Barrens. So Horde of course attack it. Then Jaina cries about neutrality while very clearly not subscribing towards that standard herself.

Just a small list of answers.
Vinilla, not much here Horde attack Ashenvale/Azshara for resorces, Alliance moves forces into Alterac to protect archaeologists.
BC, almost nothing happens here, mostly some very minor skirmishes for some strategic land.
In WotLk during the events of Battle for Under city the Alliance leadership at the time did not know that it was a small sect of forsaken that enacted the events of the Wrath gate, at the time they just thought it was more "evil Horde" doing evil things. It wasn't until later that Varian learned from survivors, alies, and spies about what really happened. Garosh proceeded to use this indecent to launch attacks upon Allaince forces at poorly timed points in Grizzly / ICC.
Cata was mostly instigated from the events of the book wolf heart, the invasion of Gilneas, as well as other subterfuge from the Twilight's hammer.
Mop was a play by Garosh to kidnap Anduin while he was at sea which happened to lead to the discovery of Panda Land.
WoD, Alliance forces found hints of an Artifact and horde try to stop them from gaining it, past that there really wasn't much AvH.
Legion is kind of a gray area, It is alluded to that the events in Azuna happen before Stormheim, and it's with the information that we gain their in addition to the events of the broken shore that Gen decided to attack the forsaken fleet later on, though this point hasn't been clarified by blizzard so it's hard to say.
BfA is the first time Alliance has really attacked first, but it stands in good reason why they did. Goblins (who are known to do things mostly for profit) of the Horde are mining something (That with just a silver of said object radiates immense power) for unknown reasons.... The Alliance is most likely thinking the Horde is going to use it for War/Conquest, especially with their current leader, and their track record with powerful objects in the past...

[Castrum]

"As if" is speculation and headcanon. Canon says it was the goblins, who then got Sylvanas in on it. Teldrassil also happens first. There are no indications the Alliance would be the first to use Azerite to destroy a Horde capital.

I'm happy the Undercity gets destroyed and not Thunder Bluff or some other Horde capital that belongs to a proper pro-Horde race.

Yeah, no crazy warmongering lunatics in the Alliance. No sir.

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Hard to say that considering the Horde didn't won a single war agaisn't the alliance since Wc1, and in that there wasn't a Alliance, just the Kingdom of Stormwind.

The Alliance won the Second War because of Gul'dan. If the Orcs hadn't been divided, canon says they would have won.

Garrosh's pseudo-war was a rousing success. Theramore destroyed, Ashenvale essentially Horde-controlled, Azshara lost to the Horde, the Alliance incursion into the Barrens and Mulgore halted, the Gilneans driven overseas, Southshore obliterated. Sure looks like success to me.

As for the Siege of Orgrimmar, the Alliance never would have breached the gates, had the Horde been united. Can't count it as much of a success for the Alliance if they needed serious aid to accomplish the task.