I really hate Jaina...

[Goldielocks]

Well it really depends, the shadowlands don't seem to be one of the nicest places to be and there seem to be quite a few powerful deities there hoarding souls, like bwonsamedi. Undeath sucks compared to being alive, yet at the same time it might actually be more preferable than the genuine afterlife for some cases.

The Shadowlands need to be fleshed out more. In fact, the entire Death section of the primordial forces chart needs to be fleshed out. All of the others are, at least in comparison.

[Kallisto]

Turning her life around and getting off the street's doesn't make it any less of a curse.

If we are talking about being cursed then 3 of the 4 original alliance races are already cursed. Humans, Gnomes and Dwarfs are cursed beings due to their fleshy nature. Humans twice so. Gilneans 3 times cursed.

Also many undead actually prefer their state of being, most of them actually like it. What we know of the shadowlands is that it isn't something just undead go to. It could be everyone or just who is in charge there gets first before the Val'kirs. Although there are other after lifes too, we have seen many ascend including those who were undead.

[ello]

The Shadowlands need to be fleshed out more. In fact, the entire Death section of the primordial forces chart needs to be fleshed out. All of the others are, at least in comparison.

I disagree honestly. Let it be ambiguous. I hate that Blizzard overexplained the Light and some of the other forces, I like it better when there is some mystery involved in them.

[mickybrighteyes]

I'd get exhausted from having to repeat this over and over again.

Broken shore is the only time that can be called a 'betrayal' since that's the only time they worked together and it didn't work out... but even then it's not a betrayal because both parties didn't get all teh information.

Blame SI:7 for the intel that was wrong. Since we don't have any information of other intelligence groups acting at the time and events for legion share that the SI:7 agents involved in that mission were woefully unsuccessful.

[Goldielocks]

I disagree honestly. Let it be ambiguous. I hate that Blizzard overexplained the Light and some of the other forces, I like it better when there is some mystery involved in them.

So flesh out five of them and leave the last one hanging? That's pretty dumb. You'd have a point if they didn't start with this trend already.

Broken shore is the only time that can be called a 'betrayal' since that's the only time they worked together and it didn't work out... but even then it's not a betrayal because both parties didn't get all teh information.

Blame SI:7 for the intel that was wrong. Since we don't have any information of other intelligence groups acting at the time and events for legion share that the SI:7 agents involved in that mission were woefully unsuccessful.

That comment was actually literal. People kept saying betrayal and I would repeat "What? No, there was no betrayal," at least 10 times already.

[ello]

So flesh out five of them and leave the last one hanging? That's pretty dumb. You'd have a point if they didn't start with this trend already.

I just want the afterlife to be left ambiguous. I don't want to know where every single soul goes when they die, and I sure as hell don't want to open avenues to bring them back as frequently as we are.

[Goldielocks]

I just want the afterlife to be left ambiguous. I don't want to know where every single soul goes when they die, and I sure as hell don't want to open avenues to bring them back as frequently as we are.

Its not confirmed but the afterlife that has been described so far is different from the Shadowlands. You can flesh out the primordial force of Death and still not explain everything.

[sam86]

1. you do know what purging means right? its not mass genocide its
an abrupt or violent removal of a group of people from an organization or place. straight fromthe dictionary. so yeah you can have a purge without killing anyone.

she didnt purge blood elves

so which Felplague is right, the one that says there was no purge, or the one that say there was purge, just didn't involve genocide, even if official version says she did flat out killed many sunreavers, genocide doesn't end with extinction sometimes, like what happened to minorities in 3rd reich regime in ww2, we still have jews and gypsies, click on the article i linked

2.she only killed those who drew arms on her, she never once kills someone who is innocent.

most of dead is noted to be ppl who were old or weak, the type who specially won't aren't known to draw arms and fight, in fact the known npc named like the inn keeper orc 'the beast' survived because she did fight back

3. uh no can you show evidance for this? because varian WANTED them to pay the stone masons butthey refused,

who 'they' ? my source is the mini story about Edwin Van Cleef rise to defias brotherhood, u'll find it next to in the shadow of the sun, can't find it on wowpedia and no idea where it is on official website but i read it way back with the shadow of the sun (when it still had bloodthirstle addiction part)
also my 'source' can be as valid as urs here

4. uhhh what? no he doesent... not even close..

not close what ? he does show his 'chin' a lot, like deathwing, still very unrelated to topic u don't want to kill him that u free, some ppl call thrall green jesus others hate it

5. again you dont make sense here, they welcome the dks because they were able to once again control themselves, and wished to join the alliance, free of any control, and proved so at lights hope chapel, where random forsaken have not proven themselves.

again no, the forsaken were not even given chance to prove themselves, they were attacked on sight, they were attacked as soon they were set free, they didn't try to check how they are, if they were free or not, on reverse the far stronger undead minions (dks) were not attacked on sight, were willed to talk to, and tested even, a luxury wasn't given to forsaken
and if u don't like that point there is always alliance attacking Darkspear trolls for dare to exist, goblins of kezan of just existing, and try kill blood elves - twice - too, yet they keep say how they are rightful, ignoring that they literally attacked and killed mass races just for existing, the biggest victim of them all are trolls of many factions

[cparle87]

Yes, well there was a bug at one point where she wasn't freezing and teleporting people out, she just killed everyone.


For how it was working after the bug:

Tl;dr don't attack the authorities and they won't kill you in self defense ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Fancy that, indeed.

I dunno about you, but if some child was trying to kick me out of the city my people built and lived in for 7,000 years I'd fight back too.

[Maleific]

Oh look, this topic again.

[steelballfc]

oh i see, is this the thread the break between the void elf/slyv thread, any way hope all of them dies.

[Schattenlied]

I dunno about you, but if some child was trying to kick me out of the city my people built and lived in for 7,000 years I'd fight back too.

7000 years

She wasn't trying to kick them out of Silvermoon (the only place they built and lived in for 7,000 years), she was trying to kick them out of Dalaran, which has always been an Alliance city, whether you like it or not... The elves did not build Dalaran, and they did not live in Dalaran for 7,000 years, Dalaran hasn't even existed for 7,000 years, Dalaran was built by the humans of Arathi roughly 2,000 years ago.

[Friendlyimmolation]

She wasn't trying to kick them out of Silvermoon (the only place they built and lived in for 7,000 years), she was trying to kick them out of Dalaran, which has always been an Alliance city, whether you like it or not... The elves did not build Dalaran, and they did not live in Dalaran for 7,000 years, Dalaran hasn't even existed for 7,000 years, Dalaran was built by the humans of Arathi roughly 2,000 years ago.

Some of the Sunreavers have lived there for it's entire span, to make sure the human mages didn't fuck up.


not 7k years but still.

[Combatbutler]

She wasn't trying to kick them out of Silvermoon (the only place they built and lived in for 7,000 years), she was trying to kick them out of Dalaran, which has always been an Alliance city, whether you like it or not... The elves did not build Dalaran, and they did not live in Dalaran for 7,000 years, Dalaran hasn't even existed for 7,000 years, Dalaran was built by the humans of Arathi roughly 2,000 years ago.

Dalaran wasn't always Alliance, which has existed for ca 40 years. It was the only human kingdom allied to Quel'thalas for almost its entire existence though and was actually distrusted by the other human kingdoms surrounding it.

[Mehrunes]

She wasn't trying to kick them out of Silvermoon (the only place they built and lived in for 7,000 years), she was trying to kick them out of Dalaran, which has always been an Alliance city, whether you like it or not... The elves did not build Dalaran, and they did not live in Dalaran for 7,000 years, Dalaran hasn't even existed for 7,000 years, Dalaran was built by the humans of Arathi roughly 2,000 years ago.

It was always the only place where High Elves cooperated with the humans. For almost 3k years. Compared to that, Dalaran's stunt in Alliance is but a sliver of its existence. They also were not a member of the Alliance at the time of the Divine Bell incident.

[cparle87]

She wasn't trying to kick them out of Silvermoon (the only place they built and lived in for 7,000 years), she was trying to kick them out of Dalaran, which has always been an Alliance city, whether you like it or not... The elves did not build Dalaran, and they did not live in Dalaran for 7,000 years, Dalaran hasn't even existed for 7,000 years, Dalaran was built by the humans of Arathi roughly 2,000 years ago.

Elves taught humans how to be mages 7,000 years ago, under strict guidelines. A new generation of mages came up who didn't know the rigors of war and didn't like the guidelines, so they left Strom and founded Dalaran where they'd have less oversight. The high elves helped them build Dalaran, had been living there, and had been a major part of its government since day one. Don't forget Kael was a member of the Council of Six. My argument therefore was no elves = no human mages = no Dalaran.

[Schattenlied]

Elves taught humans how to be mages 7,000 years ago

No they didn't, it was not 7,000 years ago, 7,000 years ago was when silvermoon was founded, they didn't even know humans existed at the time... The Elves instructed the humans in the use of magic during the troll wars, and Dalaran was formed almost immediately after the wars ended, which means the war was aaround 2,000 years ago, like the formation of Dalaran.

My argument therefore was no elves = no human mages = no Dalaran.

Doesn't matter, still a human city that was betrayed from within by Elves who swore they would be neutral as a requirment of their being allowed to be a part of the Kirin Tor, and then weren't.

[cparle87]

No they didn't, it was not 7,000 years ago, 7,000 years ago was when silvermoon was founded, they didn't even know humans existed at the time... The Elves instructed the humans in the use of magic during the troll wars, and Dalaran was formed almost immediately after the wars ended, which means the war was aaround 2,000 years ago, like the formation of Dalaran.


Doesn't matter, still a human city that was betrayed from within by Elves who swore they would be neutral as a requirment of their being allowed to be a part of the Kirin Tor, and then weren't.

Ah, you're right about the timeline. 2,800 years ago. No real difference, though. The city only exists because of elves. Elves have always lived there. Elves are always been part of the ruling government. And some child thinks she has the right to throw them out. A child who isn't even a native Dalaran citizen herself. She's from Kul Tiras.

[Schattenlied]

Ah, you're right about the timeline. 2,800 years ago. No real difference, though. The city only exists because of elves. Elves have always lived there. Elves are always been part of the ruling government. And some child thinks she has the right to throw them out.

Once again...

Doesn't matter, still a human city that was betrayed from within by Elves who swore they would be neutral as a requirment of their being allowed to be a part of the Kirin Tor, and then weren't.

All she did was enforce the rules, the sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor by forsaking their oath of neutrality, so they got kicked out.


And you really should stop calling her a child, she's the same age as Varian.

[cparle87]

Once again...




All she did was enforce the rules, the sunreavers betrayed the Kirin Tor by forsaking their oath of neutrality, so they got kicked out.


And you really should stop calling her a child, she's the same age as Varian.

Compared to the elves who have lived in and served Dalaran for centuries she is a child. Also it was one Sunreaver. "Hey let's expel hundreds of people who have lived here for centuries cause one guy had more loyalty to the Horde than to our neutrality rule. Obviously none of them can be trusted."