President Trump Wants To Change SNAP Program

[Toppy]

As someone who worked a few years in a low income area grocery store. I am sick of all this bullshit about how people on benefits waste their money. They really dont. They were the ones most often using cupons, most often buying low price, high calorie foods just to have something in their stomach.

Politicians need to stop acting like they have any idea how people live.

[JohnBrown1917]

As someone that understands the system, it is not that simple to get disability. Either you very much do not understand his disability, or he has an elaborate network of government-selected physicians that are conspiring with him to defraud the government. Or your friend simply does not exist and is a lie.

You do not get disability simply for being fat. You simply do not. My mother can't get disability and she's almost 60 years old, obese, has the bad kind of diabetes, two unworkable knees, one hand that needs surgery every two months or she can't move her fingers, an autoimmune disease that makes small wounds scar into hard calcium and an inability to produce new red blood cells after blood loss, and her stomach lining is held in place with surgical mesh. Because she can technically still work a phone.

the signs of an healthy nation.

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Villages sounds so dull and formal. Let's use a fun, sporty name. Hmm...camps?



The food bank I work with (I run drives for them twice a year) is similar. You get a "One from Column A, two from Column B" kind of setup, plus whatever perishables you can carry because they're perishable. That's always included bread and vegetables from local sources, every time I've visited. Which the food packets won't have.

The food bank in question, which I assume is standard but I honestly have only worked with them, uses cash donations to buy bulk food -- the healthier the better. Other donated goods supplement. It's actually pretty well organized and run.

And hey, since the poor will be concentrated in those camps, lets call them concentraction camps.

[Machismo]

The solution for the SNAP program is rather simple, set it up like the WIC program. It allows people to buy food and products that are needed, and limits waste. It can be handled largely by the private sector, where they sell the product, and the government has the say in whether they will approve such things. The government can negotiate discounts on those products, and everyone is taken care of.

[Vanyali]

The solution for the SNAP program is rather simple, set it up like the WIC program. It allows people to buy food and products that are needed, and limits waste. It can be handled largely by the private sector, where they sell the product, and the government has the say in whether they will approve such things. The government can negotiate discounts on those products, and everyone is taken care of.

WICs rigidity is actually really, really awful, and would be even worse if more people were on it.

If you don't have x brand of milk... you don't get milk for the month. Because WIC has a time limit sometimes, and you may or may not be able to get that exact brand i the time limit. Or if all SNAP and TANF goes to WIC and there's straight-up not enough of that brand to go around. Because that's a promise of a thing that will happen.

Or, again, we could take a hard look on why people that have jobs can't make enough to feed themselves, or pay rent, and do something about companies that pay such abysmally low rates.

[Machismo]

WICs rigidity is actually really, really awful, and would be even worse if more people were on it.

If you don't have x brand of milk... you don't get milk for the month. Because WIC has a time limit sometimes, and you may or may not be able to get that exact brand i the time limit. Or if all SNAP and TANF goes to WIC and there's straight-up not enough of that brand to go around. Because that's a promise of a thing that will happen.

Or, again, we could take a hard look on why people that have jobs can't make enough to feed themselves, or pay rent, and do something about companies that pay such abysmally low rates.

WIC is not that rigid. You have set items you can purchase, and you can get what you need to make sure the mother and child are well taken care of. Almost every single supermarket has plenty of options for WIC recipients. With the expansion of a program to include SNAP, they could include more brands.

Take a hard look at jobs and pay all you like, but if you are doing to demand that others pay for your food, then those people who are footing the bill should have a say in what you buy and eat. WIC is a very successful program, and is far harder to abuse than SNAP.

[zenkai]

This is the person citing anecdotal evidence calling the kettle black. Say hi to Hitchens' Razor on the way out.

Pleast only quote me on things that actually is relevant to the conversation, I get lots of replies and silly replies like this waste my time.

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Honestly though, were you friends in college, and you still use the label "friend" loosely?

If he has so few redeeming qualities and is a drain on society with no aim to better himself, why are you even still friends? Just curious, I usually cut toxic people out of my life after a few strikes..

He's a childhood friend and I will often stop by and see him when I take road trips to Texas. I may not like his lifestyle but I will not throw him away. I don't see how the relationship with my friend has any bearing on this conversation other than just to be mean spirited.

[Vanyali]

WIC is not that rigid. You have set items you can purchase, and you can get what you need to make sure the mother and child are well taken care of. Almost every single supermarket has plenty of options for WIC recipients. With the expansion of a program to include SNAP, they could include more brands.

Take a hard look at jobs and pay all you like, but if you are doing to demand that others pay for your food, then those people who are footing the bill should have a say in what you buy and eat. WIC is a very successful program, and is far harder to abuse than SNAP.

I've been on the cashier-side of WIC.

They are very rigid, and require a *specific* brand and a *specific* size. The reason it's "hard" to abuse WIC is because they micro-manage the crap out of what you buy, which means the day they're refilled on your state is a mass shortage of said items. Because of the demand for THAT size and THAT brand. Expanding that would only mean that people straight-up get nothing because there's zero way to deal with the massive demand.

Your last paragraph also makes no sense. I'm talking ways to get people OFF the program and you're bitching that you should get to pick what your .00000001 of a penny buys someone else. Guess their "freedom of choice" you like to talk about ends when you pay less than a penny in taxes toward a program.

[Shaderas]

He's a childhood friend and I will often stop by and see him when I take road trips to Texas. I may not like his lifestyle but I will not throw him away. I don't see how the relationship with my friend has any bearing on this conversation other than just to be mean spirited.

I only ask, because I am of the mind that real friends will challenge each other to better themselves, and won't just let BS like this pass. From what you've described, he has intelligence, but willfully neglects any efforts to better his health. Not trying to be mean spirited, but it sounds like he needs someone in his life that will encourage him to change for the better.

[zenkai]

I only ask, because I am of the mind that real friends will challenge each other to better themselves, and won't just let BS like this pass. From what you've described, he has intelligence, but willfully neglects any efforts to better his health. Not trying to be mean spirited, but it sounds like he needs someone in his life that will encourage him to change for the better.

I tried to be that person, believe me. His father left a plethora of gym equipment in his grandmothers basement, I use to go over his house and work out, I would get him to do things with me. But back then I was pretty ignorant of nutrition since the only nutrition I studied was what to eat to gain muscle. If I had known how bad the food he was eating was destroying him I would have focused more on that than exercise.

[Machismo]

I've been on the cashier-side of WIC.

They are very rigid, and require a *specific* brand and a *specific* size. The reason it's "hard" to abuse WIC is because they micro-manage the crap out of what you buy, which means the day they're refilled on your state is a mass shortage of said items. Because of the demand for THAT size and THAT brand. Expanding that would only mean that people straight-up get nothing because there's zero way to deal with the massive demand.

Your last paragraph also makes no sense. I'm talking ways to get people OFF the program and you're bitching that you should get to pick what your .00000001 of a penny buys someone else. Guess their "freedom of choice" you like to talk about ends when you pay less than a penny in taxes toward a program.

This is solved by the free markets. if a store doesn't want to provide WIC products, they shouldn't have to. if they want the sales, then they do it. Once again, the program is wildly successful, because it's restrictive. It makes it far more difficult to abuse.

If you want people to get off the program, then kick them off. Problem solved. Make it far more difficult to qualify for food stamps. If you are going to use someone else's money to pay for something, that person should have a say in how that money is spent.

[Shaderas]

I tried to be that person, believe me. His father left a plethora of gym equipment in his grandmothers basement, I use to go over his house and work out, I would get him to do things with me. But back then I was pretty ignorant of nutrition since the only nutrition I studied was what to eat to gain muscle. If I had known how bad the food he was eating was destroying him I would have focused more on that than exercise.

Well that sucks. But I'm glad to hear you tried. Sorry for taking this thread off topic, this will be the last time (hopefully) I do it.

[Elegiac]

I tried to be that person, believe me. His father left a plethora of gym equipment in his grandmothers basement, I use to go over his house and work out, I would get him to do things with me. But back then I was pretty ignorant of nutrition since the only nutrition I studied was what to eat to gain muscle. If I had known how bad the food he was eating was destroying him I would have focused more on that than exercise.

Still waiting to hear what the fuck this has to do with SNAP.

[Vanyali]

This is solved by the free markets. if a store doesn't want to provide WIC products, they shouldn't have to. if they want the sales, then they do it. Once again, the program is wildly successful, because it's restrictive. It makes it far more difficult to abuse.

If you want people to get off the program, then kick them off. Problem solved. Make it far more difficult to qualify for food stamps. If you are going to use someone else's money to pay for something, that person should have a say in how that money is spent.

Uhh.

Yeah, your solutions are full of shit. Stores are ALREADY doing that, in the first place, and I'm talking about the people manufacturing the food. It doesn't come from fairies, and stepping up production a couple thousand percent doesn't happen overnight. And WIC is restrictive because it's for kids, mostly. That's the only reason it's restrictive - to give kids a balanced meal. SNAP and TANF do not fulfill such a role.

Nor does kicking people off and saying "die in the street" because minimum wage is shit help anything, but I do think I hit a nerve given the sudden vitriolic toward people on the program, who are for the most part employed, by pointing out your utter hypocrisy with "freedom" in this instance.

[Machismo]

Uhh.

Yeah, your solutions are full of shit. Stores are ALREADY doing that, in the first place, and I'm talking about the people manufacturing the food. It doesn't come from fairies, and stepping up production a couple thousand percent doesn't happen overnight. And WIC is restrictive because it's for kids, mostly. That's the only reason it's restrictive - to give kids a balanced meal. SNAP and TANF do not fulfill such a role.

Nor does kicking people off and saying "die in the street" because minimum wage is shit help anything, but I do think I hit a nerve given the sudden vitriolic toward people on the program, who are for the most part employed, by pointing out your utter hypocrisy with "freedom" in this instance.

Once again, the producers can, and will solve the issue. It's basically a government contract to provide access to their product. They can negotiate a price, and ensure availability.

If you don't like how much someone is getting paid, then don't spend money at that company. Consumers have the power, they seem to be too lazy to deal with it themselves. You didn't hit a nerve with me at all, I'm enjoying mocking the laziness and complacency among the workforce and consumers. What do you actually do to increase wages? Do you become more educated? Do you become better at your job, so that you are more valuable on the open market? Do you only spend your money at companies who pay their employees what yo want them to be paid?

[Vanyali]

Once again, the producers can, and will solve the issue. It's basically a government contract to provide access to their product. They can negotiate a price, and ensure availability.

If you don't like how much someone is getting paid, then don't spend money at that company. Consumers have the power, they seem to be too lazy to deal with it themselves. You didn't hit a nerve with me at all, I'm enjoying mocking the laziness and complacency among the workforce and consumers. What do you actually do to increase wages? Do you become more educated? Do you become better at your job, so that you are more valuable on the open market? Do you only spend your money at companies who pay their employees what yo want them to be paid?

ANd until they do, people starve. End of. You can yell free market from the top of your lungs, but that doesn't suddenly make an ultra-restrictive (lol"freedom") program cause product to materialize out of thin air. All your proposal does is ensure people get to choose between shelter and food, which you'll note is the opposite of what the program exists for.

As for me? I make myself invaluable by learning every area of any place I work at... and going for promotions. I've also gotten my Realtor license, and am going to close my first home next Tuesday. I can pretty much get any retail job I want at this point, at just about any level in addition to that - so yeah, I've worked my own shit enough that I shouldn't have to worry about MY wages. And no, I don't shop at walmart or other shitass stores like that because of how much I fundamentally disagree with the bullshit they pull. So if you'd like to take your mockery and shove it so we can instead talk about the fact that these programs exists because people like you would prefer to mock rather than support legislation that would force companies to actually keep up with inflation when it comes to wages that'd be a better use of at least my time.

[Machismo]

ANd until they do, people starve. End of. You can yell free market from the top of your lungs, but that doesn't suddenly make an ultra-restrictive (lol"freedom") program cause product to materialize out of thin air. All your proposal does is ensure people get to choose between shelter and food, which you'll note is the opposite of what the program exists for.

As for me? I make myself invaluable by learning every area of any place I work at... and going for promotions. I've also gotten my Realtor license, and am going to close my first home next Tuesday. I can pretty much get any retail job I want at this point, at just about any level in addition to that - so yeah, I've worked my own shit enough that I shouldn't have to worry about MY wages. And no, I don't shop at walmart or other shitass stores like that because of how much I fundamentally disagree with the bullshit they pull. So if you'd like to take your mockery and shove it so we can instead talk about the fact that these programs exists because people like you would prefer to mock rather than support legislation that would force companies to actually keep up with inflation when it comes to wages that'd be a better use of at least my time.

It's not that restrictive, and it is wildly successful. Remember, it's their money that person is spending, they are spending other people's money. They are getting free food, they don't need to choose between the two. They simply don't have a choice in what food the are forcing other people to buy for them.

See, you managed to be valued at your job, problem solved. There's no need for a minimum wage, the free market solved it for you. There is no need to force legislation, you have demonstrated the solution. The free markets win, again.

[Breccia]

The solution for the SNAP program is rather simple, set it up like the WIC program.

WICs rigidity is actually really, really awful, and would be even worse if more people were on it.

Surely there could be some kind of middle ground? A system that's less rigid, but still comes from existing suppliers and not FEMA rations of govt cheese?

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Pleast only quote me on things that actually is relevant to the conversation

Um, I was calling you out for being unable to contribute in a relevant way. You don't get to say, that being called out for being irrelevant, is irrelevant.

Also, hypocrisy.

[Machismo]

Surely there could be some kind of middle ground? A system that's less rigid, but still comes from existing suppliers and not FEMA rations of govt cheese?

WIC really isn't that rigid, that's the point. We have the available private-sector infrastructure in hand, and a means in which to ensure it's very difficult to abuse. The solution is rather simple. Allow for more brands to be allowed, and still restrict the types of products they are allowed to buy. Make them vouchers, and not debit cards.

[zEmini]

https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites...yPurchased.pdf

[Grapemask]

Make them vouchers, and not debit cards.

I mean, that is basically what they are already. It's technically a card like a debit card, but it can only be used on unprepared food with a nutritional label (important distinction - must be nutrition, not supplement) from a grocery store - not even fast food, or food that's been cooked/prepared in any way (eg, the rotisserie chickens that grocery stores put out there). Any further pairing down from that would be bizarre brand specific purchasing power, and when you're putting your poor solely in the hands of brands rather than the whole 'free' market, we only have a thousand repetitions of history to tell us how that'll go: "welcome to Food Stamp Cereal, made as shitty and as cheap as possible (insert libertarian "It totally won't happen this time like it happened every. single. other. time." I suppose)."