The Big Lie - by Normal Dungeoneering

[Uurdz]

I've just finished running the first higher level dungeon after the whole "scaling the world" happened. It just happened to be Blackrock Caverns. The group was decent, we at least remembered some of the mechanics, and only wiped twice on some trash before reading up that we had to stack to share the damage from the meteor abilities they did.
All in all, it took us over 30 minutes to finish the dungeon. A normal dungeon...

Now, if i didn't know better at this point i'd be inclined to think that if this is NORMAL, then heroic must be insanely difficult!
So move forward to level 110, a player queues for a random heroic aaaaand...it's NOTHING like they imagined...it's trivial at best. Even lower mythic+s take less time to complete.

Now i'm no genius, but how can this be normal?....

You probably should avoid WoW Classic when it comes out.

[Deleted]

You probably should avoid WoW Classic when it comes out.

I played 99% solo during those days. I figured that spending hours trying to gather a group to finish a dungeon was less rewarding than grinding orcs in Arathi and gaining a couple of levels.

But this is not Vanilla :O

[Ishayu]

I've just finished running the first higher level dungeon after the whole "scaling the world" happened. It just happened to be Blackrock Caverns. The group was decent, we at least remembered some of the mechanics, and only wiped twice on some trash before reading up that we had to stack to share the damage from the meteor abilities they did.
All in all, it took us over 30 minutes to finish the dungeon. A normal dungeon...

Now, if i didn't know better at this point i'd be inclined to think that if this is NORMAL, then heroic must be insanely difficult!
So move forward to level 110, a player queues for a random heroic aaaaand...it's NOTHING like they imagined...it's trivial at best. Even lower mythic+s take less time to complete.

Now i'm no genius, but how can this be normal?....

Legion dungeons are hilariously undertuned, consistent with the rest of the game. This is being fixed one dungeon at a time. I can already tell BfA heroics and M+ are far more difficult from the footage we've seen, which is a a very good thing.

[Deleted]

probably because the hard difficulty is mythic+ and not heroic?

d

Well to be honest, not even m+ takes 30 mins to finish.

[Flurryfang]

This is a wierd thing to complain about. OPs problem could be fixed if there was a sign at lower lvl dungeons with "this dungeon is not like max lvl dungeons".

I have not heard this being a problem by the average player - misunderstanding the concept of dungeons in end-game by doing dungeons in leveling. But if there is any problem, it is fixed after the first 2-5 dungeons by the player when they hit max lvl and since they are hooked quite well when they hit max lvl, it should not be a problem to keep them around for the entire experience to be over.

This is all about perception and perceptions changes over time. It is only a problem if that perception is kept up or kept around for a long period of time, but i don't think this is the case.

Bonus: That said, i would love to see the dungeons become a bit harder, a bit longer and match the lower lvl dungeons.

[Deleted]

Its literally always been like this in wow. Thats the problem of non scaling dungeons and one of the reasons they introduced mythic plus.

This is literally the most non-issue i've read this year

[Crudence]

These low lvl dungeons are more made for being one difficulty and actually being hard at the level they are made for. They are vanilla in essence. They were made before heroics and mythics were a thing. They were made before people steamrolled 10+ dungeons in a day, when one dungeon was a real time consuming challenge. BRD is like a 5 man raid. Me for one, like it being hard. They should be. Steamrolling low lvl dungeons is not fun. Since the leveling change I have actually talked to people in dungeons, because we have to spend some time together, rather than the tank just running and never stopping, one shotting everything.

[Deleted]

These low lvl dungeons are more made for being one difficulty and actually being hard at the level they are made for. They are vanilla in essence. They were made before heroics and mythics were a thing. They were made before people steamrolled 10+ dungeons in a day, when one dungeon was a real time consuming challenge. BRD is like a 5 man raid. Me for one, like it being hard. They should be. Steamrolling low lvl dungeons is not fun. Since the leveling change I have actually talked to people in dungeons, because we have to spend some time together, rather than the tank just running and never stopping, one shotting everything.

Except Blackrock Caverns is a Cata dungeon...

[Crudence]

Except Blackrock Caverns is a Cata dungeon...

This is why I should stay off the internet in the mornings. I did not read this post well enough. I thought it was BRD haha. I done goofed!

[Deleted]

Its literally always been like this in wow. Thats the problem of non scaling dungeons and one of the reasons they introduced mythic plus.

This is literally the most non-issue i've read this year

How is this not an issue? Normal leveling dungeons should not be harder than heroic dungeons. They shouldn't even be called heroic anymore, since all the non-Legion heroics don't even scale in level, making them the only dungeons that you can outgear and outlevel within a few levels (you can solo heroic Ramparts at 73-75 on some specs).

As an example, atm i can run the heroic version of Grim Batol where the level in the dungeon finder is shown as 85-87 and the mobs will be less difficult than if i do the "scaled normal" that is shown at 84-90). They may have more HP but their damage is also much lower, which makes heroic easier.

It may not seem like an issue to you, but it doesn't mean it's not actually an issue that they need to address - like making heroic not queueable while leveling or something.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

The old world has had its pacing increases. Nothing to do with difficulty. It's so when you do dungeons while leveling they aren't so quick it's boring.

- - - Updated - - -

How is this not an issue? Normal leveling dungeons should not be harder than heroic dungeons. They shouldn't even be called heroic anymore, since all the non-Legion heroics don't even scale in level, making them the only dungeons that you can outgear and outlevel within a few levels (you can solo heroic Ramparts at 73-75 on some specs).

As an example, atm i can run the heroic version of Grim Batol where the level in the dungeon finder is shown as 85-87 and the mobs will be less difficult than if i do the "scaled normal" that is shown at 84-90). They may have more HP but their damage is also much lower, which makes heroic easier.

It may not seem like an issue to you, but it doesn't mean it's not actually an issue that they need to address - like making heroic not queueable while leveling or something.

Heroic just hasn't been changed as there is no reason to do it. They could make you not able to queue for it, or you can just use your brain and not queue for it. Nothing to discus. Heroic was there for people who were 85 for keeps when the expansion was out not for people to compare to something that changed 8 years from when it was introduced.

[Deleted]

How is this not an issue? Normal leveling dungeons should not be harder than heroic dungeons. They shouldn't even be called heroic anymore, since all the non-Legion heroics don't even scale in level, making them the only dungeons that you can outgear and outlevel within a few levels (you can solo heroic Ramparts at 73-75 on some specs).

As an example, atm i can run the heroic version of Grim Batol where the level in the dungeon finder is shown as 85-87 and the mobs will be less difficult than if i do the "scaled normal" that is shown at 84-90). They may have more HP but their damage is also much lower, which makes heroic easier.

It may not seem like an issue to you, but it doesn't mean it's not actually an issue that they need to address - like making heroic not queueable while leveling or something.

They are by no means harder then heroics. You simply outgear them by a large margin. The heroic dungeons are harder then the leveling dungeons as in they have more abilities to deal with and are tuned harder. But as with everything else, obviously, they can still be overgeared. They where tuned fine for when the expansion where new.

[melodramocracy]

All in all, it took us over 30 minutes to finish the dungeon. A normal dungeon...

A whole 30 minutes? Stop the presses.

[ToxicFlame]

They are by no means harder then heroics. You simply outgear them by a large margin. The heroic dungeons are harder then the leveling dungeons as in they have more abilities to deal with and are tuned harder. But as with everything else, obviously, they can still be overgeared. They where tuned fine for when the expansion where new.

Legion dungeons were never harder than what we have now in low level dungeons. i've spent over 40 minutes healing zul'farrak with no wipes and a tank that was pulling at least 5-10 mobs at a time. At no point during legion did i spend that amount of time in any dungeon heroic or normal, maybe mythic although i am not sure because i started a week or 2 late with mythics.

A whole 30 minutes? Stop the presses.

Considering something like a court of stars +15 in time can take less i'd say that is atrocious.

[Deleted]

Op in essence is upset that for example,
it takes longer for a level 45 ~135ilvl player to kill a normal mob tuned for ~135ilvl than it takes a level 110 950 ilvl player to kill an elite mob tuned for ~820 ilvl players simply because the mob has an elite tag.

I honestly cannot comprehend how people manage to sleep at night while this situation runs rampant in the game.

[Shakari]

Legion dungeons were never harder than what we have now in low level dungeons. i've spent over 40 minutes healing zul'farrak with no wipes and a tank that was pulling at least 5-10 mobs at a time. At no point during legion did i spend that amount of time in any dungeon heroic or normal, maybe mythic although i am not sure because i started a week or 2 late with mythics.



Considering something like a court of stars +15 in time can take less i'd say that is atrocious.

No its an old dungeon and old dungeons take longer and they should stay as they were designed .... not all dungeons are meant to be mindless zerg fests lol

[Kantoro]

Perhaps you could enjoy the experience, rather than complaining?

Just a thought.

[Phookah]

Have you not read what the issue is? Is the way the dungeons are called - normal dungeons.
When you see 2 difficulties - normal and heroic, which one should be harder?
There is no reason for normal dungeons to be more difficult than heroic dungeons. Yes, your gear while leveling sucks compared to the ability to outgear content, but that's exactly the issue.

Normals have been harder than heroics for expansions now. The power increase you get at max level WAYYYYY out scales the slight power increase the dungeon gets from turning heroic.

Heroics are supposed to be tuned like 15% harder (as in higher damage/hp) than normals maybe, they can't compete against a 1000% player power increase (no exageration, heroic Ursoc required something like 200k dps per dps to beat his enrage at the start of the expansion. There are now people doing 2 million+ single target)

It works the same way in reverse.

[Enkrypt]

Have you not read what the issue is? Is the way the dungeons are called - normal dungeons.
When you see 2 difficulties - normal and heroic, which one should be harder?
There is no reason for normal dungeons to be more difficult than heroic dungeons. Yes, your gear while leveling sucks compared to the ability to outgear content, but that's exactly the issue.

Did you not read the first reply to your post?

Your party members gear may have been low.
None of you have artifacts.
You don't have all your abilities.
Maybe your tank sucked.
Maybe your healer sucked.

You don't overgear it, and you're used to plowing through these, I'd presume. Not having an artifact is a huuuuge detractor.

And btw, dungeons feeling like a dungeon isn't a bad thing. They are historically WAY too easy at lower levels.

[Xeranath]

Why are you people feeding a troll?