Why Legion seems to be better received than WoD

[styil]

WoD started with over 10 million subscribers, and after the expansion's performance, this number collapsed to about 5 million and lower.

The remaining few million players are mostly passionate veterans of WoW, and because of this passion, any change is magnified. So they see 1 extra patch from WoD as extraordinary. Only problem is that these are mostly the only players remaining, so there is a bias towards threads portraying Legion being a good expansion, despite millions of dissatisfied players leaving in the last year or two who are not voicing their opinions since they are no longer around.

In summary, most of the remaining players are irrationally optimistic about the game which leads to a positive bias towards the quality of Legion.

[Deleted]

You can't tell what or how others see things. I like Legion because of what it is, not because of the previous expansion being disaster.

[FuxieDK]

........or maybe Legion was a huuuuuuuuge improvement over WoD...

[Kolvarg]

You are making 2 big assumptions:

1) Legion didn't also have 10 million subs at launch;
2) Current subscriber base is not higher than late WoD subscriber base.

You are unable to prove or confirm either of them, and any semblance of evidence points the other way (player activity is significantly higher in Legion than WoD).


Either way, a lot of the people in the forum are part of that group that will likely play no matter what, and from what I've seen most people generally agree that Legion is simply objectively better overall, although it has its issues ofc.

As someone who played a lot more during WoD, and honestly thinks it wasn't as bad as some people paint it, and although I had more fun and was a lot more involved with the game during WoD (mostly because of RL and overall being tired of WoW by now), I can still see that Legion is overall a better expansion.

[styil]

You can't tell what or how others see things. I like Legion because of what it is, not because of the previous expansion being disaster.

Well the subscriber numbers definitely aren't increasing. And if they're decreasing that only further proves my point. And if they're stabilising that is mostly the irrational veteran playerbase.

So either way the writing is on the wall for Legion.

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You are making 2 big assumptions:

1) Legion didn't also have 10 million subs at launch;
2) Current subscriber base is not higher than late WoD subscriber base.

You are unable to prove or confirm either of them, and any semblance of evidence points the other way (player activity is significantly higher in Legion than WoD).


Either way, a lot of the people in the forum are part of that group that will likely play no matter what, and from what I've seen most people generally agree that Legion is simply objectively better overall, although it has its issues ofc.

As someone who played a lot more during WoD, and honestly thinks it wasn't as bad as some people paint it, and although I had more fun and was a lot more involved with the game during WoD (mostly because of RL and overall being tired of WoW by now), I can still see that Legion is overall a better expansion.

I don't need to prove claims that I never made.

[Evangeliste]

I think that's obvious. WoD had too much ambition and couldn't deliver. It was felt by both Blizzard and the playerbase. They didn't make the mistake a second time with Legion and was back on track with delivering on par to other expansions in terms of at least quality and quantity of features in equal measure.

With all of the team changes and stuff, one could assume that WoD and it's way of doing shit was felt by the company and went on a rampage to mash shit up inside.

[Loeve]

If WoW subscribers were high blizzard would release the numbers again. Theres a reason they hide it now

[Deleted]

Well the subscriber numbers definitely aren't increasing. And if they're decreasing that only further proves my point. And if they're stabilising that is mostly the irrational veteran playerbase.

So either way the writing is on the wall for Legion.

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I don't need to prove claims that I never made.

Mabye you shoudnt bother posting? If you dont claim anything you couldnt prove?

[Evangeliste]

If WoW subscribers were high blizzard would release the numbers again. Theres a reason they hide it now

They "hide" it because when they do a quarterly call... It features many games WITHOUT a subscription model. You can't display to your shareholders separate information, they want it together and snappy. Out of Diablo, Overwatch, Hearthstone, WoW, Starcraft, Heroes of the Storm, Candy Crush Saga, Bubble With Saga 3, Call of Duty, Skylanders, Crash Bandicoot, soon Spyro and many other games that Activision Blizzard HAVE. Dating as FAR back as 1982... Their library of games... has ONE with a subscription model. ONE. Just one. I'll repeat one. One.

It's wasting time out of over like 100+ games to deliberate information solely on ONE game with it's own business model. When Blizzard have 7 games to speak of alone.

[Deleted]

If WoW subscribers were high blizzard would release the numbers again. Theres a reason they hide it now

If WoW subscribers was too low, they would shot down the game. Who cares about subscriber count? Clearly its making money for blizz, else they wouldnt keep producing content.

[Deleted]

Legion was a steaming pile of shit and one of the most boring and repetitive expansions.

It was also pretty badly received by the official community, but theres a loud minority on this forum who likes the expansion.

I think that's obvious. WoD had too much ambition and couldn't deliver. It was felt by both Blizzard and the playerbase. They didn't make the mistake a second time with Legion and was back on track with delivering on par to other expansions in terms of at least quality and quantity of features in equal measure.

It was actually the complete opposite. The developers had listened to the players prior to making warlords. It's also really hard to see legion being the quality expansion you are discribing.

........or maybe Legion was a huuuuuuuuge improvement over WoD...

It was a huge step back quality and content wise, but that doesnt stop the players on this forum from worshipping it.

I think some of the praise legion gets on this forum is a bit deluded.

[Evangeliste]

It was actually the complete opposite. The developers had listened to the players prior to making warlords. It's also really hard to see the legion being the quality expansion you are discribing.

You not seen the gravestone "Ray. D. Tear"? It's where they cut out a whole tier of raiding to compensate for the Garrisons.

That alone, is evidence to me maybe not you, that they really were too ambitious.

And I didn't say it was a "quality expansion" I said, it delivered on par with other expansions with a mixture of quality and quantity.

I think that's obvious. WoD had too much ambition and couldn't deliver. It was felt by both Blizzard and the playerbase. They didn't make the mistake a second time with Legion and was back on track with delivering on par to other expansions in terms of at least quality and quantity of features in equal measure.

With all of the team changes and stuff, one could assume that WoD and it's way of doing shit was felt by the company and went on a rampage to mash shit up inside.

That doesn't say just 1 aspect now does it?

[Kolvarg]

I don't need to prove claims that I never made.

You didn't word the claim, but your position relies on said claim being true.

Your argument is based on the fact that in WoD the subscriber number went from 10M to 5M, and these remaining players are passionate veterans, and that's what changes the perception of Legion.

It literally relies on the playerbase in Legion being different from the playerbase in WoD.

[kamuimac]

WoD started with over 10 million subscribers, and after the expansion's performance, this number collapsed to about 5 million and lower.

The remaining few million players are mostly passionate veterans of WoW, and because of this passion, any change is magnified. So they see 1 extra patch from WoD as extraordinary. Only problem is that these are mostly the only players remaining, so there is a bias towards threads portraying Legion being a good expansion, despite millions of dissatisfied players leaving in the last year or two who are not voicing their opinions since they are no longer around.

In summary, most of the remaining players are irrationally optimistic about the game which leads to a positive bias towards the quality of Legion.

you cant really see how legion is percived because blizzard doesnt release offcial numbers anymore - you can only see unofficial activity numbers on http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weekly...hp?serverid=-1 and they are worse then they were at the end of wod

legion is a decent expansion only if you are experienced player who has a lot of time to participate in scheduled activities in guild - then yes its amazing expansion better then couple of last ones due to how mythic + and raids work very well toghether.

but if you are player who for whatever reason dont want to parcitipate in organized guild events you may have really bad time this expansion and have every right to be dissapointed. the amount of rng is crazy , you dont have any way to progress your toon exept praying that lfr/argus loot will titanforge nicely , so you can just play argus for a week , then complete lfr and you can as well unsub till next raid patch since there is nothing to do for you.

compared to wolk, cata, mop which offered such progress though jp/vp systems legion is garbage expansion in eyes of casual endgame players. and activity numbers show it - yes 2 mln of normal-mythic raiders are happy , rest simply doesnt play the game anymore .

[McNeil]

I think peoples expectations were way higher for WoD with them moving away from pandas to a supposedly ''TBC 2.0'' and bringing back old characters. Then after a full year with nothing but dissapointments, they weren't expecting much from Legion which turned out to have a lot more effort behind it from the team.

[Revamp Man]

Well the subscriber numbers definitely aren't increasing. And if they're decreasing that only further proves my point. And if they're stabilising that is mostly the irrational veteran playerbase.

So either way the writing is on the wall for Legion.

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I don't need to prove claims that I never made.

the subs definitely arent decreasing
if they are increasing then that means the recent changes are an improvement (the ability to buy legendaries now)
if they are stagnant then that means players are just fine with the changes

[Deleted]

Welcome to the wow forums, where facts are completely unimportant as long as someone has an opinion.

Well the subscriber numbers definitely aren't increasing

[FuxieDK]

It was actually the complete opposite. The developers had listened to the players prior to making warlords. It's also really hard to see the legion being the quality expansion you are discribing.



It was a huge step back quality and content wise, but that doesnt stop the players on this forum from worshipping it.

There was literally no quality in WoD..
Levelling zones as bad as Northerend.
Bad to mediocre raids.
Lore that was raped.
Zerg-dungeons, WotLK style.
Class ability purge.

[owbu]

If I remember the earning calls correctly, Legion had similiar subscriber numbers at the start and they decayed slower than WoDs subscriber numbers did.
Probably because Legion, while not being flawless, did have a better dungeon system, a MUCH better outdoor system and in general focused on giving you reasons to do stuff.

Not saying you cant personally dislike Legion or the direction WoW is going in general of course, but the reason people disliked WoD and Cata isnt a big mistery that needs solving. Both of them go abandoned mid development leading to cardboard content like Dragon soul and Appexis dailies, fewer dungeons, cut raids, half finished quest zones and fewer patches.

[Deleted]

There was literally no quality in WoD..

They literally gave you everything you could wish for in the expansion, but you are still going to complain just for the sake of complaining.